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McLennon
14 March 2022
1.49pm
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savoy truffle
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I don’t think that Paul and John were ever physically romantic, but I do think there are numerous quotes / songs / photographs / interviews on hand to illustrate that the bond they had went beyond mere friendship. 

 

I’m not a “McLennon stan” searching for proof of a hidden sexual relationship between the two of them, but they are my favorite songwriting duo and I love them both individually and I find their relationship very compelling. So, sometimes I scroll #McLennon on Pinterest and I’ve ardently watched the “Understanding Lennon/McCartney” youtube series. I like to be reminded of the sunny days of The Beatles, when they were an impenetrable unit that bounced around the world together. I like the adoring looks between John and Paul, I like hearing about how the presence of the other guys made John ‘feel normal’. I like their loopy banter in the recording studio. 

 

The direction of this thread is surprising to me…I was expecting some quotes and links to thoughtful articles and maybe rational conjecture over key events (what really happened in Rishikesh?), instead of calling out tumblr girls for being crazed fetishists. I recommend the “Another Kind of Mind” podcast, if you’re looking for the former.

14 March 2022
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I’d be up for this kind of conversation! I enjoyed some of the stuff on https://www.heydullblog.com/ but they have decided to nix the topic, because there were some commenters making it tedious. (Fair enough, there were some very strident views).

I find the relationships of the four of them (but especially John and Paul) sort of tragically thrilling. They were such a fantastic combination of personalities, who went through completely unique experiences. I like to think I’d still be as interested if the tragedy wasn’t part of it, but I can’t ever know for sure. I have similar habits to yours I think — I’ve watched a bunch of mclennony YouTube compilations of clips, and I’m on my second watch through of “Understanding Lennon/McCartney” (the second episode is very different now, since a recent re-upload) but I don’t really want to read any purely imaginative stuff.

I never use Pinterest for anything. What’s there, photos?

Here are two of my favourite moments on YouTube of John and Paul (hopefully this new “clip” thing works):

https://www.youtube.com/clip/U…..BAZBkDJWde

https://www.youtube.com/clip/U…..Z50KVQskNF

I go back and watch them every Now And Then a-hard-days-night-paul-7To be honest, I find it hard to imagine there was nothing sexual between them, whether or not they ever acted on it. The intimacy they had must have been so exciting, it’s hard to imagine it not being at least confusing.

I love speculating about what lyrics of John and Paul’s are aimed at each other. But I don’t have any people in my life who want to hear my theories paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

Most recent example: I’ve been trying to listen to more of John’s music (I’m more drawn to Paul’s), and I heard Bless You for the first time yesterday. I’m convinced he’s speaking to Paul (the lyrics include “wings” and “love is strange” — Love is Strange is a song on the Wings album Wild Life ). It’s comforting to think that in 1974 John might have been saying to Paul:

And remember though love is strange
Now and forever our love will remain

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

15 March 2022
2.32pm
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I was listening to a recent episode of the podcast Another Kind Of Mind, and they discussing some of Peter Jackson’s editorial choices in Get Back . In particular, they pointed out that the bit where John is fellating the mic doesn’t actually happen at that point in the conversation. The “I never regret anything, ever” is unrelated. That’s a weird editorial choice, isn’t it? I mean, I’m still super curious about the *actual* context of the mic thing ….

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savoy truffle

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

16 March 2022
5.19pm
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savoy truffle
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Yes, I remember that microphone mention in the podcast and Get Back ! Such a strange choice…(sidenote: unlike the AKOM podcast ladies I think John was doing that subconsciously – not overtly).

I think Peter Jackson is a closet McLennonite…he focuses on Paul and John to the point of distraction. Obviously their connection was hard to ignore, and lord knows it’s compelling, but some of his editorial directions were a bit misleading and seemed to have the intent of pushing this Paul/John agenda. Like, when Paul said “and then there were two” and his eyes misted over and the longest pause in the movie unfurled? That isn’t how that went down and so, like the microphone bit, I’m curious about the accurate audio for this scene! Also, the kitchen conversation between the two of them wasn’t actually between just the two of them; and he even changed their wording around a bit. Interesting choices. 

Another consequence of this direction is that he barely featured Yoko at all; I know there are a lot of theories about why this is but I surmise it’s because he just doesn’t like her intrusion into their story. His mission seems to be about honing in on and spotlighting the relationship he is most engaged by: John + Paul. And, to be honest, the two of them staring into each other’s eyes, riffing on songs old and new, and making each other laugh is much more joyful and tender to watch than the moments between John and Yoko. For instance, that one scene in the control room where John is staring at Paul and Yoko has to tap John multiple times to offer him a stick of gum before ultimately just putting it in his hand while he keeps staring over at Paul…I mean!a-hard-days-night-john-3

Somethin the doc helped highlight for me is how left out George must have felt. By now we’re aware of his frustration professionally and musically – not being taken seriously enough by his partners – but here you witness him quietly watching them from the sidelines, his and my heart breaking over it. It’s not very fun to hang out with people who are clearly more interested in each other than you.

 

tumblr_d8b06ba6515ae68c825b8b5d0fa8c371_9325f2b4_540.gifImage Enlarger

 

A burning question I’m left with: when Michael Lindsay-Hogg asks John about the cooling of his and Paul’s relationship, and “healing the wound”…what is this wound?? Michael doesn’t really seem to know details, but his choice of words implies there may have been a particular occasion/instance/reason for their recent estrangement. I wish MLH had followed-up differently and gotten John to open up more…

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meaigs
16 March 2022
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@meaigs

I would love to hear your theories on songs! John’s I Know (I Know) is 100% about Paul, right?? Or one of John’s demos Yoko handed over to the Beatles that George refused to work on for the Anthology series: Now and Then. And Jealous Guy? And while Paul has sworn up and down that Two of Us is about him and Linda (and maybe it partly is) when the two of them are singing together about “spending someone’s hard-earned pay” and “you and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead” you have to wonder a-hard-days-night-paul-11 

The podcast Nothing Is Real has a good two-parter regarding songs the Beatles wrote about each other (Season 1, eps 5/6)

 

I love the videos you linked, especially the Live on Shindig one! The Beatles always made you want in on their good time. Have you watched this set of promo videos? Like Cynthia Lennon said, “John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.”

We Can Work It Out, Ticket To Ride, I Feel Fine

 

I sometimes browse Pinterest for photos and gifs, I’ve seen some gems that way.

IMG_5394.JPGImage Enlarger

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meaigs, Rube
16 March 2022
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I 100% agree about MLH and his follow-up questions. He seems to often lead the conversation in exactly the wrong direction paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif I have to say though, I agree with the AKOM ladies on the mic bit. It might have started as unconscious, but by the time he’s wagging his head from side to side and making noises ….a-hard-days-night-john-1

I’m *dead* curious about the moment where Paul leaves with MLH and John jokes “can we come?” There’s something about both Paul and MLH’s demeanors that suggest Paul has kind of collared MLH about something. Idle speculation: could it be that Paul wants to tell MLH to keep some stuff out of the movie? It reminds me of this great quote from MLH in this article

I wouldn’t particularly want to run into Paul McCartney in a dark alley, if he didn’t like me.

I’ve been thinking a lot about Paul and George’s relationship recently. George would have been my favourite Beatle until I saw Get Back , but I was honestly kind-of bowled over by Paul in the show. I was unprepared for his charisma and beauty! I found my empathy was with Paul in both of the major scenes of conflict between them (a: the one that looks like it immediately precedes George leaving, though it didn’t even happen on the same day, b: the India conversation). Paul is trying to be diplomatic in a way that I do in my life, so my instinct was “Paul is trying to ease the tension, but George is being obstinate”. But it occurred to me the other day that maybe after so many years in such close quarters, George experiences Paul’s diplomacy as manipulation. And maybe it kind of is? It’s given me a lot to think about wrt to my own life.

I’ve also been thinking about how George wanted Paul’s attention specifically. I’ve heard lots of quotes from George talking about how he felt connected to John after the Dentist’s Dinner Party. I think he felt rejected by Paul when Paul wouldn’t take LSD with them. There are also lots of times where he’ll mention in an interview that he and Paul were friends before Paul knew John. He tries to get Paul to engage on the lyrics to Something , and John joins in instead. More idle speculation: I wonder if George saw the way Paul and John worked together and wanted that for himself, with Paul. I doubt Paul could have given it to him even if he’d tried. But it’s heartbreaking to see Paul too preoccupied to listen to George properly. 

It’s also a shame, I think, that there’s no nod at all in the movie to the fact that George was having marital problems when he left the band. He’s happier in Apple, but it’s not just because of the changes they’ve agreed to, he’s also back with his wife!

I don’t get why Jackson cut so much of the work they did on George’s songs. It plays into the narrative that John and Paul “rejected” George’s songs, but they spent hours working on songs that ended up on All Things Must Pass . I’m not suggesting that it was George’s imagination that they might reject his songs, Paul at least definitely underrated him. Paul talks about George “finally” writing good songs on Abbey Road , but Taxman is easily in my top five Beatles songs. But they’re George’s songs, and he needs to fight for them to be played the way he wants, and included in the album.

There’s a cynical part of me that wonders if Peter Jackson is playing to the McLennonite market, rather than being sold on it himself. There have been a *lot* of comments on that aspect of Get Back , people are kind of thrilled by it (men as well as women). I know a certain amount of editorialising is unavoidable, but I’ve been disappointed with how much tweaking he’s clearly done. As you say, he really makes it look like that lunchtime conversation was just between the two of them. He *knows* it wasn’t, and it wouldn’t have been a high cost in either time or audience confusion to let it be obvious that it wasn’t. It’s especially annoying because he keeps saying how little editorialising he did.

I can see a couple of reasons why he’d cut so much of Yoko. He might have decided that it’s time for the pendulum to swing the other way a bit; she’s been this bogeywoman in popular culture for a long time, and he might feel that the only way to overcome that is to push the narrative too far in the other direction. He also definitely wanted to create a happy/uplifting product.

Yeah, the “wound” occupies a lot of my thoughts these days paul-mccartneyI don’t know if anyone knows, other than Paul, at this stage. Though it’s occurred to me that Jane Asher might neil-aspinall

Oh this turned into a bit of an essay, sorry a-hard-days-night-ringo-14My brother-in-law sends me links to Beatles stuff and always jokes that it’s for my PhD a-hard-days-night-george-10

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

17 March 2022
4.31am
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Savoy Truffle said

I would love to hear your theories on songs! John’s I Know (I Know) is 100% about Paul, right?? Or one of John’s demos Yoko handed over to the Beatles that George refused to work on for the Anthology series: Now and Then. And Jealous Guy? And while Paul has sworn up and down that Two of Us is about him and Linda (and maybe it partly is) when the two of them are singing together about “spending someone’s hard-earned pay” and “you and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead” you have to wonder a-hard-days-night-paul-11 

Wow, I had never heard I Know (I Know) before. 100% about Paul, yes a-hard-days-night-ringo-6According to Understanding Lennon/McCartney the night they first did acid together they sat for hours saying “I know, I know” to each other.

There is simply no way that Two Of Us is about Linda, none of the lyrics make sense in his “we went on long drives” version. Paul and Linda’s road ahead is so much longer than their memories! They’re not chasing paper, or writing on walls. I don’t blame Paul for feeling private about what it does mean, and making up an explanation, but I don’t believe him either ahdn_george_06 There’s a very poignant moment when they’re practicing it in Get Back and John says “four of us” and I want to scream at the four of them “have an honest conversation!!!” paul-mccartney

The podcast Nothing Is Real has a good two-parter regarding songs the Beatles wrote about each other (Season 1, eps 5/6)

Awesome. I know what I’m listening to on my long drive this morning!

I love the videos you linked, especially the Live on Shindig one! The Beatles always made you want in on their good time. Have you watched this set of promo videos? Like Cynthia Lennon said, “John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.”

They way Paul looks John up and down in the shindig one a-hard-days-night-paul-7. If he did that flirty twirl from the other one on stage with me, I don’t think I could hold it together paul-mccartney

We Can Work It Out, Ticket To Ride, I Feel Fine

 

These videos are so great. I love how all four of them are having fun in a schoolkid way. “You can make me sit here in this ridiculous situation, but you can’t make me sing in time or drum properly”.

I’ll do a separate post below with a few of my song theories paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

17 March 2022
12.34pm
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(I was half way through this post and my computer got rebooted so I had to start againpaul-mccartney)

None of the following is conclusive of anything, obviously. I have a tragic-romantic story in my head, and bias being what it is I tend to hear things that support that story, but I don’t hold it very tightly. So for what it’s worth here’s (a subset of) the songs I think might be about Paul and John’s relationship.

 

I’ll Get You (1963)

lyrics

I liked that slightly faggy way we sang. ‘Oh yeah, oh yeah,’ which was very distinctive, very Beatley.

Paul McCartney
Many Years From Now, Barry Miles

It’s possible that John only used the word ‘friend’ because it rhymed with ‘end’ …

 

If I Fell (1964)

lyrics

Another song where John imagines falling in love with someone, but there’s some barrier to him letting himself ….

 

The Night Before (1965)

lyrics

This could be about any on-again/off-again, mixed-signals, will-they/won’t-they relationship ….

 

Tell Me What You See (1965)

lyrics

Same

 

Norwegian Wood (1965)

lyrics

http://www.beatlesebooks.com/n…..egian-wood

Norwegian Wood ’ was about an affair I was having. I was very careful and paranoid because I didn’t want my wife, Cyn, to know that there really was something going on outside the household. I’d always had some kind of affairs going, so I was trying to be sophisticated in writing about an affair, but in such a smokescreen way that you couldn’t tell. I can’t remember any specific woman it had to do with.

John Lennon

I’ve heard the audio of this clip (possibly in Anthology Revisited?) and to my mind John emphasises the word ‘woman’.

Peter Asher’s room, which was next to Paul’s room in the Asher house, was done up in Norwegian Wood (video clip of Barry Miles talking about it). It makes me wonder if there was a time John stayed over there hoping something might happen between him and Paul, and Paul was either oblivious or chickened out and pretended to be.

 

We Can Work It Out (1965)

lyrics

This feels like the same theme as “Hello Goodbye ” to me. A kind of push-me, pull-you, description of a repeated conversation that dances around the topic. It’s possible that ‘crime’ was only chosen as a rhyme for ‘time’ …

 

Here, There And Everywhere (1966)

lyrics

I know the pronoun in this song is ‘she’, but I wouldn’t put it past Paul to (consciously or unconsciously) change the pronoun. He wrote this sitting by John’s pool, waiting for him to get up, and it means a lot to him that John expressed a liking for the song. (Page about the song).

 

Hello, Goodbye (1967)

lyrics

Here’s that push-me, pull-you theme again. Whoever is saying ‘yes’ the other is saying ‘no’, as if there’s some barrier to both saying ‘yes’ at the same time, something they fear, even though they both want to say ‘yes’.

 

Baby You’re A Rich Man (1967)

lyrics

How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people?
Tuned to a natural E
Happy to be that way
Now that you’ve found another key
What are you going to play?

This may be me over-interpreting (I mean, what in this thread isn’t a-hard-days-night-john-6), but I can certainly imagine this being a lyric about sexual orientation. Somehow this song feels like it’s connected to You Never Give Me Your Money (though BYaRM was written first).

 

I Will (1969)

On January 13th, 1969, when Paul was being interviewed at Twickenham Studios during the recording of the “Let It Be ” film, the subject was broached about his and John’s recent strained collaboration partnership as a result of Yoko’s presence in his life. “It’s like, we did “I Will ,’” Paul relates, “We’re trying to get the last verse to ‘I Will ‘ and eventually I just ended up doing it, ’cause we couldn’t actually do it.” From this comment we can deduce that Paul requested John’s input in writing the lyrics for the final verse of “I Will ” but, because of him not being cooperative, Paul just finished the lyrics himself.

(from http://www.beatlesebooks.com/i-will)

The theme seems to switch mid-song to me. Since reading the story quoted above, I always imagine that Paul wanted to say to John “I will wait for you”, but couldn’t get his attention and changed direction paul-mccartney

 

I’m So Tired (1968)

lyrics

I think “you” in this song is Paul, and John is expressing his (possibly paranoid, possibly justified) concern that Paul won’t take him seriously. Could Paul’s performance of the song during the Get Back sessions indicate that it was justified? a-hard-days-night-paul-4

 

Oh! Darling (1969)

lyrics

I’m sure y’all are sick of me banging this drum, but Paul definitely says “oh Johnny” at around 1:42 in this song. In Get Back ep 2, around 2h46, Paul drunkenly calls John ‘darling’ (why yes I have been keeping notes ahdn_john_08_gif).

John Lennon : It’s like you and I are lovers

John and Paul (coyly mirror each other fiddling with their hair)

 

Two Of Us (1969)

lyrics

As you said @Savoy Truffle , maybe this is about Linda, but I don’t buy it at all. The lyrics only make sense as being about Paul and John, though pretty revisionist on Paul’s part, as John subtly points out with his “four of us” comment. The way they sing it in each other’s faces in episode 1 of Get Back beatlemaniacs_02_gif. You’d have to feel sorry for George in that sceneahdn_george_05

 

Dig A Pony (1969)

lyrics

Everything has got to be just like you want it to

Paul had a reputation for perfectionism

Yes you can imitate everyone you know

Paul is (or at least was) an excellent mimic. (This is pointed out in the Understanding Lennon/McCartney series, where they have this song in the background while Paul is doing impressions of people).

 

Golden Slumbers (1969)

lyrics

A response to I’m So Tired ? The vocal performance on the The Long One on the Abbey Road (Super Deluxe Edition) makes me think this was a way more emotional piece for Paul than the standard “oh I just found it in a book” narrative.

 

You Never Give Me Your Money (1969)

lyrics

Here’s that will-they/won’t they thing again. “We try, and then one of us backs off”. The reprise of this in Carry That Weight (lyrics) is especially strong on that theme.

 

Alright, this has taken all day, so I’m going to put the Paul solo songs in a separate post. I’d love to hear some recommendations for John songs.

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

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19 March 2022
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I loved reading your notes on songs, I’m going to respond to those separately. But you bring up such another topic that is fascinating me lately – especially after Get Back the Paul + George dynamic!

Peter Jackson’s editing choices (that focused on Paul + John) unfortunately cut a lot of George’s songs and contribution, though he did leave in some great moments that got me thinking…

I came into this with the hindsight knowledge that George had a lot of issues with Paul, based on pointed quotes throughout the 70/80/90s that felt mean-spirited and bitter. And just PAUL, not JOHN, even though John had many more nasty and condescending things to say about George than Paul ever did. So, why did George continue to stick with John and not Paul? For instance: George happily played with John on “How Do You Sleep”, and said things like “Paul is a fine bass player, but he’s a bit overpowering at times. To tell the truth, I’d join a band with John Lennon any day, but I couldn’t join a band with Paul McCartney . It’s nothing personal; it’s just from a musical point of view.” (1974). And then recently Pattie Harrison said “George saw Paul as difficult. They would tolerate each other, but I think George basically didn’t like Paul’s personality. I just think they really didn’t love each other. George was terribly unhappy. The Beatles made him unhappy, with the constant arguments. They were vicious to each other. That was really upsetting and even more so for him because he had this new spiritual avenue. Like a little brother, he was pushed into the background. He would come home from recording and be full of anger. It was a very bad state that he was in.” 

So, when I watched Get Back  and ~just like you said @meaigs~ saw how much George was trying to engage with Paul and seemed so alert to Paul’s comments and songs, I was left wondering even more, what happened?? An easy explanation is that Paul was charismatic as hell and a musical genius who people craved attention and approval from, and when they didn’t feel that reciprocated back (because Paul could have a tendency to be guarded, preoccupied and independent) they felt hurt. That’s absolutely understandable *cue George’s face watching them sing “Two Of Us ” into one mic* and makes sense in regards to both George and John, but would that explain how far in the opposite direction they went by trying to knock him down later on? There had to have been more more fuel to the fire.

I think how Paul responded to Rishikesh must have something to do with it too, the conversation they all had about it was so uncomfortable. I think George and John were very hurt when Paul left early but for different reasons and with different reactions. Does anyone else think that’s valid?

 

Is there a McHarrison thread I could also get into? lola-hard-days-night-george-4

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20 March 2022
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Savoy Truffle said

And then recently Pattie Harrison said “…I just think they really didn’t love each other….”

What an awful thing to say neil-aspinall

And completely wrong, in my opinion. It’s (sadly) perfectly possible for brothers to get up one another’s noses so much they stop speaking, especially if they’ve been through trauma together. I think they loved one another, but couldn’t get over some shit. The fact that George died in one of Paul’s houses says something, in my opinion. They never managed to be close again, as far as I know, but there was an unbroken bond.

 

 
So, when I watched Get Back  and ~just like you said @meaigs~ saw how much George was trying to engage with Paul and seemed so alert to Paul’s comments and songs, I was left wondering even more, what happened?? An easy explanation is that Paul was charismatic as hell and a musical genius who people craved attention and approval from, and when they didn’t feel that reciprocated back (because Paul could have a tendency to be guarded, preoccupied and independent) they felt hurt. That’s absolutely understandable *cue George’s face watching them sing “Two Of Us ” into one mic* and makes sense in regards to both George and John, but would that explain how far in the opposite direction they went by trying to knock him down later on? There had to have been more more fuel to the fire.

I think there’s a moment in Get Back that’s instructive here. Paul notices that someone is out of tune, and watches John and George tune up. Then they start playing again, and Glyn Johns says “Paul, I think you’re out of tune” and the other three whoop with joy. The delight they feel is palpable: finally, perfect Paul made a mistake.

The reason that’s relevant is I think that George in particular, never forgave Paul for being right about Klein.

Here’s my armchair analysis: They had spent years with this tacit agreement of all-for-one-and-one-for-all, where they would create consensus among the four of them. John hated jazz, so they all set aside any interest they had in jazz. Paul wanted them to have a uniform appearance, so they all got suits. Nobody was actually doing anything they really hated, but they were accommodating one another for the sake of cohesion. Largely unconsciously, I imagine. That was slipping by the late sixties. They were grown men with individual lives, getting a bit more stuck in their ways. Paul expected the tacit agreement to mean that they wouldn’t go with Klein without him, and the other expected it to mean that Paul would give in and join them. And the agreement was no longer strong enough to overcome either expectation. On top of that, Klein totally underestimated Paul (probably influenced by the way that Paul had been weirdly feminised in public opinion, and the patriarchal assumption that such a feminine man would capitulate).

So Paul draws a line, finally shattering the illusion that they are a four-headed-monster. But worse than that, he turns out to be right. Klein was manipulating them and did not have their interests in mind. Perfect Paul didn’t get taken down a peg. And it may be that Paul’s conciliatory instincts (which we see annoy Georg in Get Back ) just add fuel to the fire.

I think how Paul responded to Rishikesh must have something to do with it too, the conversation they all had about it was so uncomfortable. I think George and John were very hurt when Paul left early but for different reasons and with different reactions. Does anyone else think that’s valid?

I do! People on the internet are so weird about this. They talk as though Paul should just get with George’s amazing spirituality, but Paul’s spiritual experience is equally valid! If he wasn’t moved by the whole thing should he work it up in himself? Pretend he was moved? And if George is so zen about everything where is his chill with respect to Paul? You could see some of the banter about India as being insulting or insensitive, but I think that kind of banter was the way they talked about everything

I wonder if George was thinking “if Paul isn’t into Indian spirituality, then ‘we’ are not into Indian spirituality as a gang, so Paul is taking this away from me”. Whereas John and Paul had been “writing all those songs” ahdn_john_08_gif, and something else was going on between them.

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

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meaigs said

Savoy Truffle said

And then recently Pattie Harrison said “…I just think they really didn’t love each other….”

What an awful thing to say neil-aspinall

And completely wrong, in my opinion. It’s (sadly) perfectly possible for brothers to get up one another’s noses so much they stop speaking, especially if they’ve been through trauma together. I think they loved one another, but couldn’t get over some shit. The fact that George died in one of Paul’s houses says something, in my opinion. They never managed to be close again, as far as I know, but there was an unbroken bond.

Absolutely agree. I’ve been wondering if Paul saw that quote from Pattie…it must have hurt and felt unjustified.

 

I think there’s a moment in Get Back that’s instructive here. Paul notices that someone is out of tune, and watches John and George tune up. Then they start playing again, and Glyn Johns says “Paul, I think you’re out of tune” and the other three whoop with joy. The delight they feel is palpable: finally, perfect Paul made a mistake.

YES I love that scene. I definitely think the other guys took issue with Paul either always being right or seeming to be right or thinking he was right, and the fact that he did come out ahead in a lot of the legal battles was probably salt in the wound. I also know that at a later meeting in the 80s or 90s it was revealed Paul had been buying up more shares in Apple, at the suggestion of Lee Eastman, and George was wildly upset about this and felt it was a betrayal. So, there were probably a lot of little hurts along the way that added up. 

 

I do! People on the internet are so weird about this. They talk as though Paul should just get with George’s amazing spirituality, but Paul’s spiritual experience is equally valid! If he wasn’t moved by the whole thing should he work it up in himself? Pretend he was moved? And if George is so zen about everything where is his chill with respect to Paul? You could see some of the banter about India as being insulting or insensitive, but I think that kind of banter was the way they talked about everything

Exactly, why couldn’t each Beatle have different interpretations of their experience? I think, up until that point, they had done everything as a unit and George was probably hurt that they weren’t getting into ‘his thing’ and worried that he might be dragged away from it for the status quo. Maybe he also thought that Paul not taking it seriously belittled the importance of it.

I thought that Rishikesh convo in Get Back  was uncomfortable mostly because John, Paul and George each seemed to be wanting to say something more but holding back…gosh, to have been a fly on the wall in that room John mentions he and Paul writing songs in a-hard-days-night-john-3

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And for more on songs!

 

I definitely think “I’m So Tired ” had Paul in mind since John mentioned this being written at the tail of the Rishikesh trip when he was getting ‘really autobiographical’ and Paul had recently left.

I also think “You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away” is a biggie, and I especially love the way they shot it for Help It captured that *forlorn lover* mood very well.

 

Though, I tend to read more into the songs they wrote apart (after The Beatles) as they were separated and maybe felt more comfortable addressing each other via song. One of the guys who stole John Lennon ‘s diary after his death remembers reading a lot of entries where John explicitly says he thought Paul was trying to communicate with him in his recent songs.

 

John: Now whether he’s – [Paul] was expressing himself because whether we plan it to express our innermost feelings, or sort of surreal it like Dylan, or – Paul, you could say, his lyrics are very sort of… non-specific – if one knows the person, one knows what is coming down. You know, you can read what’s being said—

Yoko: Between the lines.

John: Between the lines. Because people’s expressions and feelings come out in their work whether they want it to or not. So I always express myself directly, or [in the] language of the streets, and other people don’t. And that’s what it was all about. And I don’t go ‘round thinking, “how do you sleep?” the same as I don’t go, “imagine there’s no heaven,” you know. Because it’s 1973 now, and it’s a different world. And as you’ve probably heard, or people have read, Paul and I have communicated […].

— John Lennon, interview with DJ Elliot Mintz (16 April 1973).

 

So, in a way, you were acting when you wrote it? “Yes. I wrote from the point of view of someone who was sad. But when you’re taking on a part, it’s usually you you’re writing about. Your psychiatrist would say it’s you.”

— Paul McCartney, interviewed by Mark Blake for Q: Songs in the key of Paul (May 2015).

 

I think everything that comes out of the songs – even Paul’s songs now, which are apparently about nothing – the same way as calligraphy shows and your handwriting shows you everything about yourself. Or [Bob] Dylan too. Dylan might try to hide in a subterfuge of clever, Allen Ginsberg-type words, or hippie words, but it was always apparent, if you look below the surface, what is being said. Resentfulness, or love, or hate. And it’s apparent in all work. It’s just harder to see when it’s… written in gobbledy-gook.

— John Lennon, interviewed by David Sheff for Playboy (August 1980).

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Savoy Truffle said
And for more on songs!

I also think “You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away” is a biggie, and I especially love the way they shot it for Help It captured that *forlorn lover* mood very well.

Oh! That was in the list before my computer got rebooted paul-mccartney-facepalm_gif

I think it’s mostly about his mother, but it also applies to any other love he doesn’t feel free to express in public. It’s a very moving song.

Though, I tend to read more into the songs they wrote apart (after The Beatles) as they were separated and maybe felt more comfortable addressing each other via song. One of the guys who stole John Lennon ‘s diary after his death remembers reading a lot of entries where John explicitly says he thought Paul was trying to communicate with him in his recent songs.

I think Paul’s lyrics are terribly underappreciated. It’s undeniable that he’s capable for profound depth in lyrics, but for some reason people assume that most of his lyrics are on the surface. He’s a private person, who has publicly said that he expresses himself in songs. There must have been so much John was able to read into them, after all the years of in-jokes and private code. And, no doubt, so much he misinterpreted.  

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

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McLennon is one thing, but did you ever get the impression that certain scenes in A Hard Day’s Night suggest John being somewhat attracted to Ringo? Probably just by accident, but the way John gazes at dancing Ringo during the All My Loving segment and then the camera slowly focusses on Ringo as if it’s following Johns gaze. Or the If I Fell number.

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I didn’t, but this is an excellent excuse to rewatch AHDN tonight a-hard-days-night-john-6

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

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Monkberry Moon Delight said
McLennon is one thing, but did you ever get the impression that certain scenes in A Hard Day’s Night suggest John being somewhat attracted to Ringo? Probably just by accident, but the way John gazes at dancing Ringo during the All My Loving segment and then the camera slowly focusses on Ringo as if it’s following Johns gaze. Or the If I Fell number.

  

Yes, I noticed that John was looking at Ringo when he was singing the opening line of If I Fell

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I just finished All We Are Saying, John’s last interview with Playboy (David Sheff), and in the portion where he goes through all his songs for “I know (I know)” his only comment is “Just a piece of nothing.” paul-mccartney John’s callousness and fickle attitude towards Paul and The Beatles really bums me out sometimes lol. I have more thoughts on that but I think I’ll put them in the John’s Interviews thread.

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Also from that interview…

 

Ono: But I don’t think you could have broken up four very strong people like them, even if you tried. So there must have been something that happened within them – not an outside force at all.

 

I love how Yoko sometimes sounds like one of us ‘Beatle watchers’…she seems to imply sometimes that there was an ‘event’ that happened that caused the rift that even she isn’t totally aware of. And also her comments like this one: “I knew there was something going on there,’ she remembers. “From his point of view, not from Paul’s. And he was so angry at Paul, I couldn’t help wondering what it was really about.”

 

a-hard-days-night-john-3

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I’ve been putting off starting into Paul’s solo songs, I think because I’m intimidated by the scale of the task, so I’m not going to try to be systematic. I’ll just post a few as they occur to me. If it starts to get annoying, someone stop me paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

 

The one that’s on my mind today is the Hear Me Lover segment in The Pound is Sinking. This is on Tug Of War , the first album after John died, and I hear loads of references to John throughout. Whatever one thinks of their relationship, John’s death was traumatic for Paul, and had to have been a huge influence on this album.

I love the way that Paul sometimes leads you up the garden path with lyrics (a great example being Fixing A Hole :

And it really doesn’t matter if
I’m wrong I’m right
Where I belong I’m right
Where I belong

So in Hear Me Lover he says:

Hear me, my lover (Hear me lover)
I can’t be held responsible now (Oh no, it wasn’t me)
For something that didn’t happen (I didn’t do it anyway)
I knew you for a minute
Oh, it didn’t happen only for a minute
Your heart just wasn’t in it anymore

The first “it didn’t happen” is straightforward (though I don’t know what ‘it’ is), and the second one is the opposite: “it didn’t happen only for a minute” (this is a different ‘it’: the relationship, imo). To me this sounds like a tangled, complex relationship that was briefly consummated (‘knew’ in the Biblical sense), but the whole thing went on for a long time and ended in a way that was disappointing and confusing for Paul. The emotional power of the performance on Tug Of War is really special. I think burying it in the middle of The Pound Is Sinking is a really interesting emotional tactic from Paul. I suspect he couldn’t bear to write a whole song from it.

“Your heart just wasn’t in it anymore” reminds me of what Paul said about Junk

https://www.beatlesbible.com/f…..2/#p371728

There’s also a connection to Wanderlust (on the same album)

Oh where did I go wrong, my love?
What petty crime was I found guilty of?

Maybe Paul doesn’t know either, what the ‘it’ mentioned above is.

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

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WOW I’ve never thought of “Junk” from that angle but now that I know…a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 (it’s always been a favorite of mine but mostly just for the sound of it.) Paul is such a clever lyricist, garden path sentences and veiled meanings galore 🙂

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