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McLennon
23 March 2022
12.17am
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sigh butterfly
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Monkberry Moon Delight said
McLennon is one thing, but did you ever get the impression that certain scenes in A Hard Day’s Night suggest John being somewhat attracted to Ringo? Probably just by accident, but the way John gazes at dancing Ringo during the All My Loving segment and then the camera slowly focusses on Ringo as if it’s following Johns gaze. Or the If I Fell number.  

This is an excerpt from a review of the 1991 movie Hours and Times (about John and Brian’s vacation in Spain).

***Locating queer appeal in the mythology of the Beatles is not as idiosyncratic a choice as some may think. The anarchic attitude and easy intimacy of the band, especially as depicted in A Hard Day’s Night, has long offered a twinge of promise for the queer viewer. In that film, the four handsome mop-tops are themselves the queering agents, running roughshod over proper society (“Give us a kiss,” John says at one point to a straight in a suit). Meanwhile, followers of gay British culture might find Lester’s casting of Wilfrid Brambell, who plays Paul’s omnipresent, disconcertingly libidinous “grandfather,” of interest—the gay Brambell had been arrested in a public restroom in 1962 for “indecent acts.” (Queer cinephiles may also know that Brambell would later play Terence Davies’s elderly surrogate in his wrenching 1983 short Death and Transfiguration.) In fact, The Hours and Times, which uses the bathroom as a place of sexual initiation, seems to consciously evoke the playful homoeroticism of A Hard Day’s Night, in which a presumably naked John plays with submarine toys in the bubble bath, while George shaves in the mirror mere feet away.***

I would not put too much weight on the authentic feelings of the actors being portrayed in fictional movies. The director is in charge (especially with newbies) and can ask for any emotion he desires to be portrayed. A good editor can amplify that vision to the point the actor may not even recognize their performance. I saw an interview with Dame Maggie Smith around the time Downton Abbey was ending and they asked her about a specific plot on the show. She laughed and said she had never seen the show or read a script beyond her own lines. She shows up, follows the director’s instruction, and heads home for tea. 

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23 March 2022
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I think the scene in the makeup room is potentially *very* queer.

John (referring to Ringo): He’s reading “The Queen”. That’s an in-joke, you know.

Grandfather: It’s my considered opinion that you’re a bunch of sissies.

John: You’re just jealous.

Norm (the Epstein analog): Leave him alone, Lennon, or I’ll tell them all the truth about you.

John: You wouldn’t.

Norm; I would, though.

 

(side note: my absolute favourite moment in the whole movie is from the makeup scene, when Paul says the Shakespeare line in a stupid voice and then turns around and goes “ZAP!”. I don’t know why, but it cracks me up).

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

25 March 2022
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Today’s Paul song is This One

lyrics

video

This song has made me cry. It evokes a relationship that is/was very close, but with very poor direct communication.

If I Never Did It, I Was Only Waiting
For A Better Moment That Didn’t Come.
There Never Could Be A Better Moment
Than This One, This One.

The Swan Is Gliding Above The Ocean,
A God Is Riding Upon His Back,
How Calm The Water And Bright The Rainbow
Fade This One To Black.

Maybe the swan is a metaphor for the moment, and the God is the powerful potential that the moment has? And then the moment fades to black, because it’s gone.

In the first two verses the protagonist imagines moments of intimacy where he could have made his feelings explicit, implying that the intimacy existed, but he never verbalised it. The third verses reverses the question, did the other person ever make their feelings explicit? But then switches back to wondering if the singer opened up enough to make it possible.

The “middle 8” (or whatever the correct term is) is the bit that always gets me

What Opportunities Did We Allow To Flow By
Feeling Like Like The Timing Wasn’t Quite Right?
What Kind Of Magic Might Have Worked If We Had Stayed Calm,
Couldn’t I Have Given You A Better Life?

paul-mccartney

I had already wondered if this was about John, and then I watched the video, which is arguably set in the Ashram, where something happened between them. Maybe it’s something that could have gone very differently if they’d had the emotional maturity and self-knowledge to have a really good conversation about it, maybe then Paul could have given John a better life.

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

28 March 2022
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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

31 March 2022
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meaigs said
Another interesting clip:

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx0…..j7HtDbjECp

  

 

Oh my gosh, I love this! Always speaking to each other through song ahdn_john_08_gif

John was notoriously bad at calling people, he admitted it in an interview once saying he didn’t because he was “insecure and paranoid.” John seemed to crave a lot of attention but didn’t want to be the one to seek it out, you had to come to him.

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31 March 2022
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Some food for thought: there’s a lot of speculation about what happened in Rishikesh, because of the songs and the change in attitude (mostly John’s) when they got back and the heavy tension in the recording studio, but I’m wondering if a big part of the puzzle we should be looking into is the New York trip…I’ve outlined the timeline below. In hindsight people like to highlight John’s songs from that trip as being about Yoko and how in love with her he was BUT it took him more than a month to see her once he got back. So, what happened in NY to make him call her over 3 days later? Maybe that car ride with Linda Eastman? Maybe a conversation that took place at the apartment the duo were sharing? 

 

March 26: Paul leaves Rishikesh

April 12: John and George leave

May 11-16: John and Paul go to New York

May 19: John invites Yoko over for the first time and they make Two Virgins (the rest is history…)

 

a-hard-days-night-ringo-13

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31 March 2022
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This came up in a thread here: https://www.heydullblog.com/jo…..john-paul/

I don’t know how to link to the specific comment, but they quote Paul as having said this about that New York trip:

“I had a real personal paranoia. I don’t know if it was what I was smoking at the time, but it was very strange for me.”

Maybe John was taking the same bad drugs?

I’m quite curious about Paul’s breakup with Jane Asher. I have *so* much respect for her refusing to talk about any of it (even though I’d love to know what she knows), but I sometimes spin a little story for myself that they actually broke up in India, but Jane agreed to keep mum about it for showbiz reasons (to distance the breakup from India in the minds of the press?). You kind of have to go digging to realise that the “dirty weekend” that cemented Paul and Linda’s relationship happened while he was engaged to Jane.

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

31 March 2022
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savoy truffle
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There definitely may have been some bad trips happening that weekend…Paul seems rather spacey and sulky in those interviews. I’ve heard people say it was because he was reeling from his break-up with Jane Asher but who knows. I agree that I respect her silence immensely but of course am dying to hear her side of the story!! I could believe they broke up in Rishikesh and just kept it going for appearances sake, absolutely. Not only was he engaged to her during the “dirty weekend”, I think at one point he was dating/seeing Jane, Linda, Francie and Maggie McGivern (interesting post about her here) at the same time.

 

I’ve noted that John didn’t seem to regard any of Paul’s girlfriends well, including Linda. He was dismissive at best and rude at worst. I think during that car ride to the airport (with John, Paul, Linda) something clicked for him (or maybe Paul even said something) and he could tell that this relationship was different and Paul was going to get married and really start breaking out on his own. Maybe he felt that Paul was swapping him out as a partner and this spurred him on to want to secure another collaborator for himself *hence the almost immediate call to Yoko*?

31 March 2022
11.18pm
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sigh butterfly
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Tell you the truth, I never heard of the McLennon theories until I saw this thread. I thought it was a fan fiction thingy and never paid any attention. So I am surprised how many Beatle fans write passionately about it. Searching around the internet for Beatle stuff today, I ran into a post from someone convinced that the unreleased 1985 McCartney song Yvonne tells their complete story. They believe that the song is so obviously about John that Paul couldn’t release it. I guess one can interject their own POV into just about anything, but his/her sincere beliefs made me decide to share. If you haven’t heard it the demo is in the Spoiler – it’s pretty great.a-hard-days-night-paul-8

Yvonne

Yvonne’s the one I’ve been counting on
She said, “hold on, you’re not the only one”
And so I said so long Yvonne

When I first saw Yvonne, volcanoes erupted
And her laughter flowed into my life
She seemed all right, nothing wrong
Everything about her was so strong
But I know no one’s gonna keep us apart

Yvonne’s the one I’ve been counting on
She said, “hold on, you’re not the only one”
And so I said so long Yvonne

When I saw her again, I was caught in a landslide
But I didn’t dare let it show
Her ruby lips were teasing me
But jealousy would never let us be
So always gonna keep us apart

She never knew how much I loved her
I never got to tell her
We never found a way to say farewell
Yvonne

Yvonne

When I last saw Yvonne, she was covered in roses
But sadness had ended her life
She walked so tall, she looked so tan
Everything about her was so grand
But what you get is not what you see
So long, Yvonne, you’re not fooling me

Yvonne, Yvonne’s the one I’ve been counting on
She said, “hold on, you’re not the only one”
And so I said so long Yvonne

Yvonne, Yvonne’s the one I’ve been counting on
She said, “hold on, you’re not the only one”
And so I said so long Yvonne

So long Yvonne

 

list=PLNZ4pVtD8MsG7ItOrpYtS3p0lNt0oH4re&index=22

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31 March 2022
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Thank you, SB. Great song! I have certainly never heard it before.

Two comments caught my eye on YouTube:

Maccas unreleased songs are better than everyone else’s best songs.

By the way, I do NOT share the belief that Yvonne is dead at the end. Yes, she is “covered in roses”, but the words are “a sadness had entered her life”. People seem to be hearing the word “entered” as “ended”. The narrator is not singing “a sadness had ended her life”, but “a sadness had entered her life”. It is a very subtle study of two people who do not deal with each other after their initial connection.

I also hear that lyric as “entered”, which makes sense in the context of the rest of the lyrics.

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

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1 April 2022
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I agree, it’s definitely “entered”. It makes more sense in the context of the verse too. It’s a lovely song though, I wonder why he’s never released it?

 

sigh butterfly said
Tell you the truth, I never heard of the McLennon theories until I saw this thread. I thought it was a fan fiction thingy and never paid any attention. So I am surprised how many Beatle fans write passionately about it. Searching around the internet for Beatle stuff today, I ran into a post from someone convinced that the unreleased 1985 McCartney song Yvonne tells their complete story. They believe that the song is so obviously about John that Paul couldn’t release it. I guess one can interject their own POV into just about anything, but his/her sincere beliefs made me decide to share. If you haven’t heard it the demo is in the Spoiler – it’s pretty great.a-hard-days-night-paul-8

 

I find people who have very strident views about it very off-putting. Either saying “it’s so obvious that they were lovers and y’all are just being homophobic” or “there’s absolutely no way they ever thought of each other that way and you’re being perverted”. Like, as much as we know about the Beatles (and their lives are some of the most scrutinised in the history of humanity) there’s a lot we can never know. It was difficult for them to find privacy, but not *completely* impossible. I vacillate between thinking something probably happened and thinking nothing probably did, but I hold it all very lightly. And after all, it’s not actually any of my business a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

I do find it very interesting, and sort-of thrilling in ways I don’t completely understand beatlemaniacs_02_gif

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

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meaigs said
I’m convinced he’s speaking to Paul (the lyrics include “wings” and “love is strange” — Love is Strange is a song on the Wings album Wild Life ).

And remember though love is strange

Now and forever our love will remain

  

“Love is Strange” was a cover, though, of a 1950s classic which John surely knew as well as Paul did, though – it seems more likely he’d choose one of Paul’s own lyrics to reply to, if that was really his intent. 

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

         offtopic-1.png

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1 April 2022
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ahdn_paul_06I think Rich and meaigs are right.

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1 April 2022
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I find people who have very strident views about it very off-putting. Either saying “it’s so obvious that they were lovers and y’all are just being homophobic” or “there’s absolutely no way they ever thought of each other that way and you’re being perverted”. Like, as much as we know about the Beatles (and their lives are some of the most scrutinised in the history of humanity) there’s a lot we can never know. It was difficult for them to find privacy, but not *completely* impossible. I vacillate between thinking something probably happened and thinking nothing probably did, but I hold it all very lightly. And after all, it’s not actually any of my business a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

 

I do find it very interesting, and sort-of thrilling in ways I don’t completely understand beatlemaniacs_02_gif

Completely agree. I don’t actually think they were lovers, and I don’t discount the love they had for the women in their lives, etc etc but they clearly had a bond that goes beyond normal ‘lads in a band’ and I am compelled by it. You could make an argument for all sides of the story and I would happily hear and ponder every one 🙂

What I think is hilarious is not the McLennon discussions themselves but the vehemence it brings out against the people having the discussions! I don’t like the ‘homophobic’ or the ‘perverted’ arguments either, they are both demeaning and over-simplifying (though, some fans probably do take it too far).

 

The interpersonal dynamics of my favorite band are fun to discuss, but in the end it’s just cheery chatter, right?

dd76bb2eea59bfbf886a21a66c88d965.gifImage Enlarger

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1 April 2022
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Savoy Truffle , I know where you are coming from. I believe the sensitivity to this subject transcends homophobia. I’m in N. Cali and half the people I know are part of the LGBTQ community. I have never brought this subject up in “real” life to any of them (or anybody else for that matter). It’s too beyond the bounds of common understanding to not be regarded as exploitive or crazy. It’s kind of similar to talking about the furry culture, which is also established in these parts. If you aren’t familiar with it, just bringing up the subject could be considered in bad taste. Actually now I reread your post, the comment about perversion makes sense. I sometimes forget that folks in the LGBTQ community can be just as close minded as anyone else. 

… a little mood lightener.

2afcee8a86a47465e00c6656b713386b.jpgImage Enlarger

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meaigs said
Today’s Paul song is This One

lyrics

video

This song has made me cry. It evokes a relationship that is/was very close, but with very poor direct communication.

If I Never Did It, I Was Only Waiting

For A Better Moment That Didn’t Come.

There Never Could Be A Better Moment

Than This One, This One.

The Swan Is Gliding Above The Ocean,

A God Is Riding Upon His Back,

How Calm The Water And Bright The Rainbow

Fade This One To Black.

Maybe the swan is a metaphor for the moment, and the God is the powerful potential that the moment has? And then the moment fades to black, because it’s gone.

In the first two verses the protagonist imagines moments of intimacy where he could have made his feelings explicit, implying that the intimacy existed, but he never verbalised it. The third verses reverses the question, did the other person ever make their feelings explicit? But then switches back to wondering if the singer opened up enough to make it possible.

The “middle 8” (or whatever the correct term is) is the bit that always gets me

What Opportunities Did We Allow To Flow By

Feeling Like Like The Timing Wasn’t Quite Right?

What Kind Of Magic Might Have Worked If We Had Stayed Calm,

Couldn’t I Have Given You A Better Life?

paul-mccartney

I had already wondered if this was about John, and then I watched the video, which is arguably set in the Ashram, where something happened between them. Maybe it’s something that could have gone very differently if they’d had the emotional maturity and self-knowledge to have a really good conversation about it, maybe then Paul could have given John a better life.

alice.gifImage Enlarger

  

Ok, so I am completely new to all of this. I was born in very early 70’s and the daughter of a musician. I always appreciated the Beatles, but about a year ago I saw a doc and then I got totally sucked in during Covid lock down.  And then “Get Back .” OMG it was completely life changing, being able to watch the creative process.  Immediately I knew there was a bigger connection between John and Paul. I just couldn’t stop thinking about it, it seemed so out in the open and yet so secret because Paul keeps denying it, I think to protect folks. EXCEPT I am pretty sure Paul said everything are in his songs, if folks wanted to know more. Well, I seriously got sucked into McLennon world. I DON’T KNOW WHY. But I listened to the Johnny Johnny (I don’t know) jam, I started to read lyrics more closely, etc… Well l heard Paul’s description of This One, but never really read all the lyrics until I saw this post. Between the “Real life” demo, if that is real, and lots of other lyrics, then reading this post… TO ME THIS IS THE PROOF. For this song, I tried to fill in other people that it could be about and NOTHING fits, except for John. “What Kind Of Magic Might Have Worked If We Had Stayed Calm, Couldn’t I Have Given You A Better Life?” But when John was alive, they just couldn’t see a real future together as a “couple.” The world wasn’t ready and neither were they. Paul could only really think about what could have been after John died. There was never going to be a “happily ever after.” That is what is so sad. That sadness seeps into all their songs, even the upbeat ones. Anyway, I think I will hang up McLennon land for a while and I hope one day Paul can open up the vault, but if he doesn’t I’ll just follow instructions and look to the songs.   

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I keep seeing a quote around, credited to Cynthia Powell

“John never looked at anyone the way he looked at Paul.“

Is this made up by some McLennonite? I can’t find where she’s supposed to have said it.

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

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Monkberry Moon Delight said
McLennon is one thing, but did you ever get the impression that certain scenes in A Hard Day’s Night suggest John being somewhat attracted to Ringo? Probably just by accident, but the way John gazes at dancing Ringo during the All My Loving segment and then the camera slowly focusses on Ringo as if it’s following Johns gaze. Or the If I Fell number.

  

I was looking at this post

Revolver Cover Uncovered (creator unknown)
by inbeatles

the other day, and I noticed that John has his hand on Ringo’s leg near the top ahdn_john_08_gif

My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

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Today’s Paul song: Let Me Roll It

This one is a favourite among McLennon-y lyric sleuths, mostly for the line “you gave me loving in the palm of my hand”. I used to think that was too dirty minded but the more I read of The Lyrics the more in character that meaning seems ahdn_paul_02

Speaking of that book, the entry for this song starts with references to John (how the recording uses the echo he favoured, and how Paul thinks it’s “like a John song”). He goes on to say the song is a “long drawn out stammer” about how exposed you feel when you “reveal your affections for another person”, and calls it erotic.

He also mentions that the guitar riff is the most significant element of the song. It has been argued the riff was directly referenced by John in Beef Jerky.

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My hot take is that after the Beatles split they went down the paths of spiritualism, solipsism, alcoholism, and Paul McCartney

                                                                                                             -- Jason Carty, Nothing is Real podcast

25 April 2022
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Yeah, there is that one resolving “Beef Jerky” riff that sounds very close to the main one in “Let Me Roll It ” (both the dense bluesy chords themselves and the echoey recording), in the same way that “Roll It” feels like a pastiche of the staccato distorted riffs of “Cold Turkey ” and/or “Well Well Well”. 

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Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.

         

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