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McLennon
9 June 2019
8.21pm
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ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl
The Kingdom of Marigold
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No, actually they're just good friends.

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Sailing somewhere around Sour Milk Sea and the Cast Iron Shore.

20 June 2019
11.21pm
McLennon
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StrawberryFields91 said
I had no idea there was a thread for this, so I now have the chance to rant about something I've wanted to rant about for a while now. 

I am not a fan of "shipping" actual people at all. If they did have the kind of relationship that a lot of people seem to want to see, that's their business, not yours, they don't owe you anything just so you can be entertained. Entertainment is the issue for me. Being entertained/entertaining others seems to be a lot of people's main goal in life, and some of them don't care about doing it at the expense of others. For example, I have a not-super-close friend who recently started dating someone of the same gender. Everyone in their friend circle started squealing and freaking out and telling everyone who would listen because they were "so cute." I happen to know that my friend doesn't like attention very much (they're kind of like me in that regard) and now practically everyone in the whole school is bugging them about it because they want to be entertained by something that doesn't even matter to them. 

I don't consider myself straight, and this is why I don't go around telling people. I already get stared at enough ("Whoa! She doesn't talk! Let's put her in a cage so we can try to get her to!") and the last thing I need is to solely exist for other people's idea of entertainment. 

People naturally like thinking about other people's lives and problems, in fact, that's part of the reason I read so many books. But people get more of their precious entertainment out of using their own brains and playing off each other's in order to imagine new scenarios the way they want them to be. I have no problem with people shipping fictional characters (other than the fact that it can be a little disturbing) but shipping real people with real emotions and real lives is just creepy. And then expecting them to go along with it and acting like it's somehow their fault when they don't either admit something they don't want to admit or admit something that didn't actually happen is even worse. 

Famous people are still people. And they don't exist just for your twisted idea of entertainment. 

  

I know what you're saying, but I feel like this doesn't apply to that. I get weirded out when people ship George and Ringo together...yeah it would be cute if they weren't real life people, but it's just weird because they are. However, for Paul and John, despite what your personal belief is, had a very strong relationship, and if many Beatles authors have contemplated that they might have been more than friendly, they most likely were, therefore, it's not weird to ship people if they have a much debated love life together...

 

And I'm not just pulling all this out of my ass... it's not like other things in life where everybody knows the 'truth', and some people just make fanfics, and ship people together. Within the Beatles fandom, there's plenty of fanfic writers and crazy shippers, but many, many, many people sincerely theorize about it being an actual real life relationship, and if there are that many people that believe it, it can't be a crazy or dumb idea. That five part documentary series "Lennon-McCartney: Together" on YouTube gives a whole 10 hours of 'hints', many suggesting some strange things few non-mclennon fans would ever dream were actual quotes or events...

21 June 2019
12.48am
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Kaniffee
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It's arguably more problematic to speculate about the real life relationship than to just have a fantasy you don't expect to be real.  The real life speculation is probably the line of thinking that leads some fans to send in shipping stuff to real life celebrities, and ask them about it.  They're almost searching for proof of "canonicity." Asking Paul about it or having biographers speculate about it in their books is pretty messed up.   If they really did have a relationship like that irl, they're entitled to their privacy on it.

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Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

21 June 2019
1.22pm
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Beatlebug
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@StrawberryFields91 said
For example, I have a not-super-close friend who recently started dating someone of the same gender. Everyone in their friend circle started squealing and freaking out and telling everyone who would listen because they were "so cute." I happen to know that my friend doesn't like attention very much (they're kind of like me in that regard) and now practically everyone in the whole school is bugging them about it because they want to be entertained by something that doesn't even matter to them. 
 

Sorry to bring this back up, but I gotta say -- and not to belittle your experiences in any way, it sucks that people act that way -- but I guess in a way that's kind of a huge mark of success for LGBT people if y'all are being fangirled over (not to mention pandered to by large corporations during Pride month ahdn_paul_01) instead of thrown off the tops of buildings like in some Middle Eastern countries. . . ahdn_george_06 a-hard-days-night-paul-10

It's stupid, yes, but I think it's good to step back and put it in perspective, have a bit of a laugh at, sometimes. And before you come at me with 'You're asexual, you don't have these problems, you don't understand,' I would still feel that way if I were LGBT myself.

Anyway, back on topic . . .

ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl said
No, actually they're just good friends.  

This might just be a serious contender for 2019's funniest post, let me check the thread. . . john-lennon-salute_gif

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

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21 June 2019
1.32pm
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Kaniffee
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Beatlebug said

@StrawberryFields91 said

For example, I have a not-super-close friend who recently started dating someone of the same gender. Everyone in their friend circle started squealing and freaking out and telling everyone who would listen because they were "so cute." I happen to know that my friend doesn't like attention very much (they're kind of like me in that regard) and now practically everyone in the whole school is bugging them about it because they want to be entertained by something that doesn't even matter to them. 

 

Sorry to bring this back up, but I gotta say -- and not to belittle your experiences in any way, it sucks that people act that way -- but I guess in a way that's kind of a huge mark of success for LGBT people if y'all are being fangirled over (not to mention pandered to by large corporations during Pride month ahdn_paul_01) instead of thrown off the tops of buildings like in some Middle Eastern countries. . . ahdn_george_06 a-hard-days-night-paul-10

It's stupid, yes, but I think it's good to step back and put it in perspective, have a bit of a laugh at, sometimes. And before you come at me with 'You're asexual, you don't have these problems, you don't understand,' I would still feel that way if I were LGBT myself.

Anyway, back on topic . . .

I do see your point, but fetishization is still an issue.  Just because it's "not as bad" as being beaten to death, doesn't mean it's good.  And some of those corporations and people who pander to or fetishize us can turn around and act completely homophobic.  Corporations can stick a Rainbow on something and then turn around and donate to conversion therapy or lobby for a homophobic bill.  Straight fanfic writers can write fics about gay people and then kick out their own kid for being gay when they come out.  Fetishizing doesn't mean they see us as fully human.  Pandering doesn't mean they see us as fully human.

 

On a lighter note:

ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl said

No, actually they're just good friends.  

This might just be a serious contender for 2019's funniest post, let me check the thread. . . john-lennon-salute_gif

  

I agree with this. That should get funniest post.

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Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

21 June 2019
1.45pm
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Beatlebug
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^I get it, I really do. I was just saying the problem is comparatively lesser. Someone fetishising you doesn't cause you physical harm.

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21 June 2019
1.53pm
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Kaniffee
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Fetishizing itself doesn't cause physical harm (except in cases when it leads to corrective rape which I don't think fanfiction reaches the level of), but it is an indication of underlying homophobia, which was part of my larger point about the (seeming) hypocrisy of corporations who pander and people who fetishize, but then act homophobic in ways that can and do cause physical harm.

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Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

21 June 2019
2.20pm
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Beatlebug
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Sure there are people who have shitty ideas about other people, but I make a distinction between motivations that may or may not ever amount to actions, and the actions themselves.

Also, if you fetishise LGBT people, that's more homo-/transphilic than -phobic... no? ahdn_george_06

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21 June 2019
2.35pm
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I see fans of various things obsessing over relationships heterosexual and otherwise alike. For me I think the most concerning thing is the invasion of privacy for the people involved. It's one thing to be obsessed over the prospect of a relationship between fictional characters like... Maxwell Edison (corrected, thanks Beatlebug john-lennon-salute_gif) and Polythene Pam , but when it's the personal lives of famous people that obsession can become unhealthy and weird, even verging on stalker-ish. 

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21 June 2019
2.49pm
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*Edison. Maxwell Edison. (I tried to thank that more than once) john-lennon-salute_gif

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21 June 2019
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Beatlebug said

<big snip> I would still feel that way if I were LGBT myself.

Would you though? I think the butterfly effect might mean you'd think differently.

I must say, I've definitely heard that line 'I'd still say the same thing if I was one of them' a fair few times and it drives me nuts. How do you know for sure??? 

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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21 June 2019
5.29pm
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Beatlebug
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Argh, I know this sounds shitty and I'm sure you have heard that kind of thing before and I can't blame you for being irritated by it. It's true that I don't have any way to be absolutely sure, but trust me, I know myself very well and I'm pretty damn sure. I'm the kind of person whose finer feelings are not particularly fine, and I can have a laugh at the expense of just about anyone or anything, especially myself and people or things close to me. To put it bluntly, I care about big things so much that I don't have any energy left to care about less big things. a-hard-days-night-paul-7mccartney-shrug_01_gif

I feel like a complete douchebag having to say this because saying it makes it sound so inauthentic, but I'm extremely sympathetic to LGBT people, and when I hear people belittle or discredit gay, bi, and (especially, because transgenderism is a complicated issue) trans people it really hits close to home because, as a non-straight person, I can sympathise just a tiny bit, and as a fellow human being who's done a lot of reading on the issues and cares deeply about truth, I sympathise a lot. I never said it wasn't a problem, just that in the grand scheme of things it's kind of, in a perverted way, a relatively nice problem to have compared to some other problems, which really goes to show how bad those other problems are. a-hard-days-night-ringo-14

Now, you can come at me if you like, but I really don't want to have to say any more on this topic. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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21 June 2019
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The Hole Got Fixed
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That makes more sense. 

Beatlebug said
Now, you can come at me if you like, but I really don't want to have to say any more on this topic. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

  

I was planning to say 'I don't particularly want to either' but when I hit quote it brought up the first part of that which wasn't there before... 

I would never 'come at you', I certainly hope it doesn't come across as me doing that, rather I aim to simply have an educated conversation.

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21 June 2019
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Oh yeah, I edited my post probably right as you hit quote. I understand where you're coming from, I was using the phrase loosely.

Thank you for having an educated, civil conversation. john-lennon-salute_gif (reasons I love this forum #1,756 heart)

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21 June 2019
5.58pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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Beatlebug said
Oh yeah, I edited my post probably right as you hit quote.

Makes sense. Pretty freaky when it happens!

I understand where you're coming from, I was using the phrase loosely.

Ah ok. paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

Thank you for having an educated, civil conversation. john-lennon-salute_gif

Right back at you.

(reasons I love this forum #1,756 heart)

  

This though. Our ability to have disagreements and still get on is incredible.beatlemaniacs_02_gifheart

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21 June 2019
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I feel like this conversation is above my level of understanding, I don't even get where your disagreement is mccartney-shrug_01_gifThe Forum Is Full Of Geniuses a-hard-days-night-george-4

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29 June 2019
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From The Beatles Unseen Archives:
BeatlesinDC.jpegImage Enlarger


I see you sneaky-hands Macca a-hard-days-night-john-3a-hard-days-night-paul-5

Shippin.jpegImage Enlarger


This ship belongs to Lennon & McCartney a-hard-days-night-john-6

a-hard-days-night-george-10

This post is (obviously) a JOKE

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