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Is all modern music terrible?
1 March 2015
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parlance
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The Walrus said
I still think 2013 was the best year for rock music ever, and 2014 was better than any year in the 60s.

Wow, that's quite a statement. I haven't listened to all the albums you listed, so I can't disagree or agree.

But just for the heck of it, I Googled "best year in rock music" and 1969 often came up as a favorite:

Beatles - Abbey Road
Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
Beach Boys - 20/20
Bob Dylan - Nashville Skyline
Cream - Goodbye
Greatful Dead - Live/Dead
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimsom King - debut
Allman Bros. - debut
Crosby, Stills & Nash - debut
Led Zeppelin - debut
Yes - debut
The Stooges - debut
Frank Zappa - Uncle Meat, & Hot Rats
Johnny Winter - debut, Second Winter, & Progressive Blues Experiment
Santana - debut
The Who - Tommy
Deep Purple - Deep Purple
Led Zeppelin II

Edit: 1967 also often comes up as a favorite, and I found a site called Rate Your Music where someone posted an extensive list of their favorite albums from that year.

parlance

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1 March 2015
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@parlance , I LOVE rateyourmusic.com! Great way to catalog my collection...  

According to the data, I indeed have more releases from 1969 and 1971 than any other year, though 1970 and '77 are also favourites. 

Strong words there from @The Walrus! I wish I could work up your level of enthusiasm about modern popular music, or work up the ambition to investigate the modern scene. (I do suspect there's a lot of interesting electronic stuff that'd hold my attention for awhile.) Based on that lack of knowledge, there's no way I can agree with your opinion, but I respect the hell out of it since you're a self-confessed music snob, as am I (altho I use the term "nerd" or "geek" just as often)

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2 March 2015
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It's hard to beat 1969, but I think 1970 ties it.  1967 has less total albums to choose from, but that year's best are among the best of all time (Sgt. Pepper 's, Pet Sounds, The Doors, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn...those are tremendous albums but it gets difficult to find more than 9 - which knocks 1967 out of contention for me). I found this site, which averaged 18,000 "best album" lists it found on the net. It's good for this topic because It sorts them by year for you.

Good music is really just any music (like any art) that makes people feel something, so by that definition all of us listen to good music :)

So here's my 1970 list (which I claim puts 1970 on the same footing as 1969). They are in approximately best to worst (imo) order:

All Things Must Pass (since it's a triple album it should count twice)

American Beauty (Grateful Dead)

After the Gold Rush (Neil Young)

Deja Vu (CSNY)

Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs (Derek and the Dominoes)

John Lennon and the Plastic Ono Band (self titled)

Let it Be

Led Zeppelin III

Moondance (Van Morrison)

Bridge Over Troubled Water (Simon & Garfunkel)

 

 

 

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2 March 2015
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The Walrus said
Sorry for bumping an old thread. I saw a link here and just had to chime in.

I'm a pretty big music snob. Of the artists listed here as "proof" that modern music is good, I don't like several and think most of the older ones aren't producing worthwhile stuff any more (except Bowie). My list of "best albums ever" is, at the top end, dominated by albums from 1965-1974.

I still think 2013 was the best year for rock music ever, and 2014 was better than any year in the 60s.

[SNIP]

That's by no means exhaustive, but I don't think any year from the 60s or even early 70s can come close to that. Throw in Yeezus and Acid Rap...

Last year was relatively disappointing, particularly without RTJ2 or Pinata or You're Dead! or erm whatever the Young Fathers album was called, but all the same, fantastic albums from St Vincent and Sun Kil Moon and Temples and Sharon Van Etten and Damon Albarn and Jack White and Karen O and Angel Olsen and Twin Forks and Cloud Nothings and Glass Animals... there's still absolutely loads of good music out there, more than ever. Brooklyn alone is probably putting out as much great music as all the world in any given 60s year.

 

Even a pretty big musical snob would have to be smoking some 60s weed to believe that the list you provided comes even close to the lists that others have given here from 1967-70.

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2 March 2015
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At my age it takes something or someone special to for me to 'take to'

This guy is ginger!!!…..All he's got going for him is talent……..And somehow that makes him cool. His appearance at the Stevie Wonder tribute alongside Beyonce was proof.

However, this was the song and performance that captured me.

 

Breath of fresh air……..

 

http://youtu.be/jI2Es1pkk5o

2 March 2015
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I tend to take a longer-term view of my musical likes and dislikes these days. For us older people in Australia, JJJ's hottest 100 gives us a chance to find out what's been big in the last year, but usually I'm happily about 10 years behind catching up on stuff like the UK Bass scene, or discovering that Paul McCartney actually did actual ambient music omg. I've listened to ambient/experimental music for 30 years now and most of that stuff moves at a glacial pace in terms of progression. If I were to define what "progressive" music is for me, it's about how we're discovering the possibilities of timbre and structure, and you can't do that in a pop song format, which these days is actually following behind the experimental stuff by some way, instead of being the vanguard back in the 60's. I occasionally (ie very lazy about it) write electronic music myself as well as having written a few rock/pop tunes and it's all good to me.

I think too that interesting approaches from people tend to occur in clumps roughly every 5 years or so; I'm not surprised now when I check out someone interesting there's been related stuff in a 2 to 3 year radius around a release. So I have favourites of around 5-10 bands each decade for the last 5 (whoops showing my age), and that's a pretty good average I reckon! Certainly nothing to suggest that music is in strife artistically, no matter how dreadful the industry is. So much of music is fragmented in a good way, a lot of parallel development is going on in widely-differing genres and a lot of the technology in the last 10 years still hasn't been fully exploited. Someone is going to come along and do that and do it on the internet and not be beholden to anyone and a lot of people's eyes will open and I just hope I like the music!

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2 March 2015
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YES! 

Of course, I never listen to it... a-hard-days-night-ringo-13

Just kidding. No, I don't listen to modern music, so I couldn't say if it's ALL terrible or not, but what I have heard, I didn't like much.ahdn_paul_01 I have absolutely NO inclination to venture outward beyond the safe confines of one fifty-year-old world-changing, mind-blowing genius, genre-defying band. Call me a coward.. or a mad devotee... either way, I'm a Beatlemaniac for life! beatlemaniacs_02_gifheart 

(And, really, with something like three hundred songs to choose from, spread over more than a dozen albums, each one a wild left turn from the path of its predecessor, and all bursting with freshness and vitality... is that so bad? a-hard-days-night-paul-8 Plus, I do listen to other music-- see my ten-albums list. But in the realms of old music and new music, it's definitely all pretty old.) 

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2 March 2015
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Matt Busby said
It's hard to beat 1969, but I think 1970 ties it.  1967 has less total albums to choose from, but that year's best are among the best of all time (Sgt. Pepper 's, Pet Sounds, The Doors, The Piper at the Gates of Dawn...those are tremendous albums but it gets difficult to find more than 9 - which knocks 1967 out of contention for me). I found this site, which averaged 18,000 "best album" lists it found on the net. It's good for this topic because It sorts them by year for you.

Good music is really just any music (like any art) that makes people feel something, so by that definition all of us listen to good music :)

So here's my 1970 list (which I claim puts 1970 on the same footing as 1969). They are in approximately best to worst (imo) order:

All Things Must Pass (since it's a triple album it should count twice)

American Beauty (Grateful Dead)

After the Gold Rush (Neil Young)

Deja Vu (CSNY)

Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs (Derek and the Dominoes)

John Lennon and the Plastic Ono Band (self titled)

Let it Be

Led Zeppelin III

Moondance (Van Morrison)

Bridge Over Troubled Water (Simon & Garfunkel)

 

1970 was fantastic! Zep III!, Funhouse, Plastic Ono, (everything Matt said basically), Sir Lord Baltimore and dozens more https://rateyourmusic.com/coll.....,ss.e.l/34

(Oh and I saw your list, @Beatlebug and I thought it was pretty cool and interesting)

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2 March 2015
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I looked at 1979 and it's an amazing year, their top 10 is great. That's not even counting the B52's first album, The Police's 2nd, Frank Zappa's most popular, important releases from XTC, Bowie, Gary Numan...oh and The Knack :P QED.

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2 March 2015
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parlance said

The Walrus said
I still think 2013 was the best year for rock music ever, and 2014 was better than any year in the 60s.

Wow, that's quite a statement. I haven't listened to all the albums you listed, so I can't disagree or agree.

But just for the heck of it, I Googled "best year in rock music" and 1969 often came up as a favorite:

Beatles - Abbey Road
Rolling Stones - Let it Bleed
Beach Boys - 20/20
Bob Dylan - Nashville Skyline
Cream - Goodbye
Greatful Dead - Live/Dead
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimsom King - debut
Allman Bros. - debut
Crosby, Stills & Nash - debut
Led Zeppelin - debut
Yes - debut
The Stooges - debut
Frank Zappa - Uncle Meat, & Hot Rats
Johnny Winter - debut, Second Winter, & Progressive Blues Experiment
Santana - debut
The Who - Tommy
Deep Purple - Deep Purple
Led Zeppelin II

Edit: 1967 also often comes up as a favorite, and I found a site called Rate Your Music where someone posted an extensive list of their favorite albums from that year.

parlance

I'm not so keen on a lot of the pseudo-folk stuff from the late 60s (CSNY, Grateful Dead, Neil Young).

Of those albums, I haven't listened to Allman Brothers or Johnny Winter. I think I've only listened to Santana's debut once - it didn't capture me the way Supernatural did. Similar story with The Stooges - give me Iggy's solo stuff! I haven't heard Uncle Meat and I can't remember Hot Rats.

The Beach Boys , Dylan and Cream albums are all nothing special, they were just done by big name acts on their way down (or in a lull, in Dylan's case). Wasn't Brian in hospital for 20/20?

Similar stories with Tommy and Let It Bleed. Neither band had quite worked out how to make a truly great rock album. The Stones' only rock albums on that level are Sticky Fingers and Exile (I am rather partial to their early pop stuff though, particularly Between The Buttons and Aftermath). The Who made two of the very best albums of all time afterwards, but Tommy is a bit too The Wall for me - not a finished article the way Quadrophenia or San Fermin are.

I like Deep Purple and both Zeppelin albums, particularly II, but (extremely controversial opinion) I don't think either has the nuance of the last QOTSA album. Yes, Homme and Grohl are standing on the shoulders of giants, but we're not talking about who's the most innovative or the biggest genius, just how good the finished product is. Jimmy Page and Josh Homme both have the monster riff in their arsenal, but none of the songs on II come close to the emotional depth of "The Vampire Of Time and Memory", for example.

Similar story with Yes. Some fantastic drumming, but ultimately I don't think it's that good. Perhaps on the same level as Melophobia, but again, nothing as "wow" as "Cigarette Daydreams", for example. Only a high 7/10 for me.

That leaves Abbey Road and King Crimson. Both fantastic albums, but I make that two fantastic albums compared to eight from 2014 (including Acid Rap and Yeezus... and that's with my distaste for James Blake, Daft Punk, etc.). Maybe Zappa and Winter could swing that back the other way a bit, but I'm not so sure.

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2 March 2015
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trcanberra said

The Walrus said
Sorry for bumping an old thread. I saw a link here and just had to chime in.

I'm a pretty big music snob. Of the artists listed here as "proof" that modern music is good, I don't like several and think most of the older ones aren't producing worthwhile stuff any more (except Bowie). My list of "best albums ever" is, at the top end, dominated by albums from 1965-1974.

I still think 2013 was the best year for rock music ever, and 2014 was better than any year in the 60s.

[SNIP]

That's by no means exhaustive, but I don't think any year from the 60s or even early 70s can come close to that. Throw in Yeezus and Acid Rap...

Last year was relatively disappointing, particularly without RTJ2 or Pinata or You're Dead! or erm whatever the Young Fathers album was called, but all the same, fantastic albums from St Vincent and Sun Kil Moon and Temples and Sharon Van Etten and Damon Albarn and Jack White and Karen O and Angel Olsen and Twin Forks and Cloud Nothings and Glass Animals... there's still absolutely loads of good music out there, more than ever. Brooklyn alone is probably putting out as much great music as all the world in any given 60s year.

 

Even a pretty big musical snob would have to be smoking some 60s weed to believe that the list you provided comes even close to the lists that others have given here from 1967-70.

So I take it you've listened to Trouble Will Find Me then?

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2 March 2015
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^ No, but listened to a lot on the list. Some decent music but nowhere near the range, innovation or dynamism of 1967-1970. Happy you find it to your liking but suspect 99% of rock lovers would disagree with your conclusion.

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4 March 2015
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trcanberra said
^ No, but listened to a lot on the list. Some decent music but nowhere near the range, innovation or dynamism of 1967-1970. Happy you find it to your liking but suspect 99% of rock lovers would disagree with your conclusion.

@trcanberra

I'll concede dynamism as a matter of opinion, but certainly not range (particularly as I was limiting myself to stuff conventionally defined as rock, whereas a lot of the boundary pushing stuff like Yeezus and such isn't really).

On the list I gave, you've got fantastic electro-pop (CHVRCHES) and Haitain raga (Arcade Fire), as well as artists influenced by punk and garage (Cage The Elephant), Bruce Springsteen (Frank Turner), and hip-hop (Vampire Weekend). Although there isn't really any prog (San Fermin come closest, and even then), there's still psychedelia (Foxygen) and hard rock (QOTSA), although the genres have progressed somewhat in the last 40+ years. There's still great folk and soft-rock (Black Prairie, Emily Barker, Frank Turner), there's great electronic music, and hip-hop is amist a 67-72 phase of its own (though once again, hip-hop fans like to pretend the 90s were better...).

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4 March 2015
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They're not "pretending". If hip-hop fans make any claims for the period from say 1986-1993 as being some kind of golden age of rap, why would you doubt that they sincerely believe it?

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5 March 2015
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Von Bontee said
They're not "pretending". If hip-hop fans make any claims for the period from say 1986-1993 as being some kind of golden age of rap, why would you doubt that they sincerely believe it?

For a start, they've quite often not heard it...

Aside from those cases, I was being flippant. It might be a sincere opinion, but I think it's very obviously wrong - much like someone claiming that pop music was better in the 40s and 50s than 60s and 70s.

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5 March 2015
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I'm not comfortable with using words like "obviously" when you're stating an opinion. Sounds dangerously close to He Who Shall Not Be Named territory.

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6 March 2015
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parlance said
I'm not comfortable with using words like "obviously" when you're stating an opinion. Sounds dangerously close to He Who Shall Not Be Named territory.

parlance

Voldemort?

I certainly think "matters of opinion" can be obvious.

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6 March 2015
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The Walrus said

parlance said
I'm not comfortable with using words like "obviously" when you're stating an opinion. Sounds dangerously close to He Who Shall Not Be Named territory.

parlance

Voldemort?

Ya he got banned pretty quickly though.

I certainly think "matters of opinion" can be obvious.

How can music opinion be obviously right or wrong?

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6 March 2015
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The Walrus said
Sorry for bumping an old thread. I saw a link here and just had to chime in.

I'm a pretty big music snob. Of the artists listed here as "proof" that modern music is good, I don't like several and think most of the older ones aren't producing worthwhile stuff any more (except Bowie). My list of "best albums ever" is, at the top end, dominated by albums from 1965-1974.

I still think 2013 was the best year for rock music ever, and 2014 was better than any year in the 60s.

I've already talked about hip hop, so limiting myself to non-hip hop albums, here are some I loved from 2013:

Vampire Weekend - Modern Vampires Of The City

The National - Trouble Will Find Me

CHVRCHES - The Bones Of What You Believe

Arcade Fire - Reflektor

Arctic Monkeys - AM

Queens Of The Stone Age - ...like Clockwork

David Bowie - The Next Day

Foxygen -We Are The 21st Century Ambassadors of Peace and Magic

San Fermin - San Fermin

Cage The Elephant - Melophobia

Frank Turner - Tape Deck Heart

 

That's by no means exhaustive, but I don't think any year from the 60s or even early 70s can come close to that. Throw in Yeezus and Acid Rap...

Last year was relatively disappointing, particularly without RTJ2 or Pinata or You're Dead! or erm whatever the Young Fathers album was called, but all the same, fantastic albums from St Vincent and Sun Kil Moon and Temples and Sharon Van Etten and Damon Albarn and Jack White and Karen O and Angel Olsen and Twin Forks and Cloud Nothings and Glass Animals... there's still absolutely loads of good music out there, more than ever. Brooklyn alone is probably putting out as much great music as all the world in any given 60s year.

 

This reads like a list that Pitchfork would produce. Good music yes, but that's it. Although I do love Bowie's album, and like AM (although not even close to being their best album btw) and ...like Clockwork. Nothing on this list apart from The Next Day is even close to being a true classic. 

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Opinions can be obvious but it doesnt mean those opinions are correct.

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