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We Can Work It Out - Politics & Philosophy
28 February 2020
9.42pm
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Beatlebug
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Dark Overlord said
What are your thoughts on free college. Personally, i am against the idea for 2 reasons:

1. Unlike healthcare, college isn't necessary and therefore we shouldn't be funding it with our taxdollars. If you fail to get the open heart surgery you need, you will die so having to pay half a million bucks for that surgery is ridiculous but the worse not going to college will do is prevent you from getting your dream job so it would be crazy to force taxpayers to pay for that.

2. Our education system sucks, i learned more on Wikipedia then i did in school. Sadly, they're pushing for more mandatory education such as mandatory kindergarten/preschool and raising the dropout age to 18 so as crazy as it seems, free college could lead to mandatory college. It might seem odd considering that the age of majority is 18 but if you can't drink or smoke until you're 21 and you can be drafted into the military from the ages of 18 to 26, then they could easily make college mandatory.

That being said, i still think there needs to be a cap on how much debt you can owe. Just because college isn't a human right doesn't mean you should be stuck with half a million dollars in debt, especially considering that debt is the only type of debt that isn't bankruptable, which also needs to stop. Also, i think the government should look into a program for students to sell their unused scholarships to those who are deserving of them. This way, scholarships aren't wasted when a student gets more than one, chooses a college not covered by the scholarship, and or simply doesn't feel the need to go to college.  

Yeah, I'm against it too, but it's too late and I'm way too sleepy to expound upon why at the moment. Someone @tt me and I'll come back later. ahdn_george_05

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28 February 2020
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Starr Shine?
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"there needs to be a cap on how much debt you can owe"

 

Then when that runs out, any prospective doctor who hasn't finished their degree could end up kicked out with piles of debt and half a degree.

 

Side note: I do like the political diversity on this forum, echo chambers are overrated.

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28 February 2020
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I can’t believe this thread is still going. I guess I’m at the stage of life where I usually don’t care to know what anyone thinks or to share what I think. 

My cats make very good companions.

I still think this should be a thread where we discuss things like Thus Spake Zarathustra and Plato’s Republic.

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29 February 2020
7.04am
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@Beatlebug There ya go!

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29 February 2020
11.27am
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Dark Overlord said
What are your thoughts on free college. Personally, i am against the idea for 2 reasons:

1. Unlike healthcare, college isn't necessary and therefore we shouldn't be funding it with our taxdollars. If you fail to get the open heart surgery you need, you will die so having to pay half a million bucks for that surgery is ridiculous but the worse not going to college will do is prevent you from getting your dream job so it would be crazy to force taxpayers to pay for that.

2. Our education system sucks, i learned more on Wikipedia then i did in school. Sadly, they're pushing for more mandatory education such as mandatory kindergarten/preschool and raising the dropout age to 18 so as crazy as it seems, free college could lead to mandatory college. It might seem odd considering that the age of majority is 18 but if you can't drink or smoke until you're 21 and you can be drafted into the military from the ages of 18 to 26, then they could easily make college mandatory.

That being said, i still think there needs to be a cap on how much debt you can owe. Just because college isn't a human right doesn't mean you should be stuck with half a million dollars in debt, especially considering that debt is the only type of debt that isn't bankruptable, which also needs to stop. Also, i think the government should look into a program for students to sell their unused scholarships to those who are deserving of them. This way, scholarships aren't wasted when a student gets more than one, chooses a college not covered by the scholarship, and or simply doesn't feel the need to go to college.

  

There are a lot of people who would love to go to college, and going to college would make a huge difference in their lives, but they can’t go because they can’t pay for it. I don’t really care what the private colleges do but I think public schools should take a few more steps towards being available to a greater amount of people despite their financial status.

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29 February 2020
12.17pm
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I have debt from being in college. I did Business Studies in 1999, hated it and spent the money on Beatles stuff (one purchase being reel-to- reel tapes of their first four albums) and going to Liverpool for a couple of weeks. When they stopped it for lack of attendance I got my brother to phone up when we were in Liverpool, tell them a story of deep family emergency and loss and get it reinstated. 

Has absolutely nothing to add to this discussion but something I'm damn proud of. 

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4 March 2020
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Here's a question inspired by the debates my AP English class have been having recently as we enter our pop culture unit: 

Does society influence pop culture or does pop culture influence society? 

(To make things interesting: no, you cannot say both a-hard-days-night-george-10

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4 March 2020
9.45am
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50yearslate
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I think society influences pop culture. Examples: SNL cold opens, Weekend Update, Airport Sushi, etc.

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4 March 2020
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Looking at our Beatley boys, could we argue that their influence led to longer hair in men being more acceptable? With Elvis, their hair would be long but combed back, whereas the Beatles let it loose. 

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4 March 2020
11.15am
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50yearslate
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Ah, but did society not influence them?

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4 March 2020
11.21am
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Well they were inspired by the Exis and the Exis were inspired by the Beatniks* and the Beatniks were inspired by the Beat Generation and the Beat Generation were inspired by alcohol and drugs.

 

*Looking at photos of random Beatniks none of them have hair similar to the Fabs, so the Exis seem to have created their own thing.

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4 March 2020
12.33pm
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I think it's really interesting to look at both ways. For example, in David Byrne's book 'How Music Works' he talks about how music in different cultures over time has been shaped by factors you wouldn't really expect, such as the size and shape of the room the music was performed in. European classical music was performed in big, echoey churches where the sound lingers for a long time after a note is played, which meant that composers had to make sure their music was very harmonic and tuneful, because if there was a single discordant note it would hang in the air and clash with the others awfully. Similarly, one of the reasons traditional African music is so drum focused is because it was often used as a way of communicating outside, and drums were the only instruments capable of being heard over long distances. 

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4 March 2020
2.24pm
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lovelyritametermaid said

Does society influence pop culture or does pop culture influence society? 

Yes a-hard-days-night-john-6

QuarryMan said
European classical music was performed in big, echoey churches where the sound lingers for a long time after a note is played, which meant that composers had to make sure their music was very harmonic and tuneful, because if there was a single discordant note it would hang in the air and clash with the others awfully.

Anyone who's ever played with lots of reverb and/or delay can confirm that it really forces you to clean up your playing and make it all chimey-beautiful and perfect. a-hard-days-night-paul-7

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5 March 2020
3.45pm
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Right lads here is one for ye that I'm arguing with my friend about. A group of her classmates (10 of them, all studying medical science), raised €2000 and went off to Africa for 2 weeks to help build houses. Now I don't know how much of the building they were involved with or whether it was just grunt work, lifting, bringing etc. etc.

 

Now, I'm not a fan of the unskilled, unqualified European, North American, Australian whatever (EoNAAw) who thinks they can go off to Africa and Asia and help build a house/school when they have no experience whatsoever in construction and would be more of a hindrance than a help because they think they're somehow 'able' to do such work when it's in Africa or Asia.

She's arguing that the €2000 they each paid was more for materials and that they spent most of the time just helping the tradesmen, anything that they did was unskilled labour.

I'm saying that I think instead of some unskilled EoNAAw going over to lift things that they should be hiring local people who actually live and work in that area. If the company that is building the school/home can't afford to pay for someone to do the menial tasks that the EoNAAw could pay for those person's wages instead of paying €2000 to volunteer for a job that they would no way be allowed to do if they were at home in Europe, North America or Australia. To even get near a construction site over here you'd have to have done a million health and safety courses. Also, if they can afford €2000 for 2 weeks, they would be able to pay a very nice wage to said unskilled worker that could help them afford further education if they wanted and it would probably still be cheaper than €2000. Looking at the University of Namibia's fees, it's €514 for the year including registration and tuition for a Namibian resident.

She's saying that their heart is in the right place but does having your heart in the right place actually benefit the area you're working in or does it just make you feel better about yourself.

 

Obviously, anyone who is skilled in an area where there is a lack of people in that area (wherever it may be in the world), you go over there and volunteer.  That's brilliant and you're very selfless but I think taking menial tasks such as medical science students helping with construction is stealing jobs that the local kid who couldn't/didn't complete school could do and you're robbing them of a wage.

 

Anyone agree, disagree? I'm interested in your thoughts.

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5 March 2020
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They should absolutely hire local labor. This would be a way to lift up the local people as well as providing them with whatever facility. It's simple as the old saying, "Give a man a fish - feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish - feed him for life." Furthermore, no one ever got as much out of a meal that was given to him or her as a meal that he or she helped to prepare. These are analogies, but I think you get the point.

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5 March 2020
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I've had a debate with a friend about this same issue.
Basically, i don't care if your heart is in the right place - it's possible that your actions aren't helping, they're hindering. As you say, if they want to invest the 2000 non-denominational amount of money, there are plenty of charity things that could help stimulate the local economy by paying workers.
I guess it's also partly because they want to see their 2000 non-denominational amount of money in action, which i get, but still...

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5 March 2020
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As long as they can ensure that some corrupt person doesn't get a hold of the cash and spend it on god-knows-what instead of hiring people with it.

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5 March 2020
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Isn't it a case of ethical tourism, and that they're paying for the experience as much as anything? The amount of money going into such projects would probably decrease greatly without the participation element.

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5 March 2020
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Beatlebug
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^ I suppose, but I'd much rather encourage local economies to be taking care of their own issues and people rather than them getting on the help of people shipped in from overseas who just want some kind of glamorous third-world charity experience.

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12 March 2020
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I found this article interesting. I guess I assumed that everyone experienced thoughts in the same way.a-hard-days-night-ringo-13

https://insidemymind.me/2020/0.....ed-my-day/

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