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What do you consider the last "early" Beatles album? (Classify the Beatles albums by era)
2 January 2019
8.07pm
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Elementary Penguin
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Maybe it isn't as common as I thought. I stand by Help ! being the start of the "Middle Period" though.

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2 January 2019
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Ron Nasty
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Myself, I consider Beatles For Sale  and Help as being transition albums to the middle period.

The problem to me with Help is that half of it, including the fantastic title song, is that it was written to fulfil a brief of a movie soundtrack. With Rubber Soul  there are no such handcuffs.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

2 January 2019
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50yearslate
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Ron Nasty said

The problem to me with Help is that half of it, including the fantastic title song, is that it was written to fulfil a brief of a movie soundtrack. With Rubber Soul  there are no such handcuffs.  

Excuse you, I happen to love Help ! (the album). Let's not forget that She Loves You was also written to fulfill a deadline, and it's legendary. a-hard-days-night-george-10

Love one another.

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2 January 2019
8.45pm
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Ron Nasty
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What deadline was She Loves You  written to meet, @50yearslate? None that I know of.

And even were that the case, there is difference between writing the Beatles next single and writing a song to fit into a movie soundtrack.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

2 January 2019
8.48pm
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Billy Rhythm
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Ron Nasty said

there is difference between writing the Beatles next single and writing a song to fit into a movie soundtrack.  

care to elaborate?...:-)

2 January 2019
9.52pm
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sir walter raleigh
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I don’t see how writing songs for a movie soundtrack makes it a part of the early period. Hey Bulldog and All Together Now are both great songs thrown into the Yellow Sumbarine movie. For me the big difference between help and Rubber Soul are the rockabilly covers from Help

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

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-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

2 January 2019
9.59pm
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Elementary Penguin
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I would have thought that most of the songs would have ended being on the next album regardless of them being for a film soundtrack or not. 

And in the end the lunch you take is equal to the lunch you bake.

2 January 2019
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Ron Nasty
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For a start, the songs they gave YS were, in the main, discards, orphans, and not written specifically for an animation they thought would fulfil their United Artists contract for a third film without them having to do anything (which it didn't, much to their displeasure -- as John would later say, "You can blame Brian for that!").

Had it not been for YS, in all likelihood, the first times those songs may have appeared would have been as unreleased Beatles songs on Anthology.

Then take a look at John's comments about Help  over the years, a song he always thought was played too fast to fit the brief of being that film's title song -- even though that was what it written to be. A few tracks on Beatles For Sale  and Rubber Soul  may have worked for a film soundtrack, but take a step back and seriously consider how many of those originals would have worked in Help !.

I'm not suggesting anything revolutionary here. John, Paul, George and Ringo have said much the same over the years.

Just look at them talking about those songs, including those for the A Hard Day's Night  soundtrack, and you'll hear the same thing as I've said.

My opinion, had the album after Beatles For Sale  not needed to be a film soundtrack, it would have been a very different album. Though the downside of that, admittedly, however dissatisfied John would later by how they approached something like Help  to make it a film song, it would probably never have been written if they hadn't been told the film was going to be called Help and a title song was needed -- which he wrote over the weekend to fit the brief.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

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2 January 2019
11.04pm
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Elementary Penguin
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You make good points Ron but I still think that a lot of the songs that ended up on Help ! would have been on the follow up to Beatles For Sale

And in the end the lunch you take is equal to the lunch you bake.

2 January 2019
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Ron Nasty
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I don't necessarily disagree, @Elementary Penguin, I'm just making the point they may have approached them differently, as John would later say about Help , even though that probably wouldn't exist had they not been told that was film title and could they please come up with a song.

And I'm also making the point that, with both A Hard Day's Night  and Help !, there are many examples of them saying about songs written for those soundtracks, "That was a film song"; "We wrote that for the film", etc.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

3 January 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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Lennon/McCartney's songwriting process by this time (and even dating back to the 'She Loves You ' example) had become almost mechanical in its execution...  I fail to see what "difference" implied here altered that formula, whether it was for a film, single, or whatever...  In the case for 'Help !', the single was released before the soundtrack, I believe, and you also had the 'Ticket To Ride ' 45rpm stating that it was from an upcoming film called 'Eight Arms To Hold You'...  Lennon wrote the lyrics to 'Help !' because he was genuinely crying out from inside and the words have absolutely nothing to do with Hindu extremists terrorizing Ringo for the prized sacrificial ring...

 

Lennon later stated that his songs on 'Sgt. Pepper ' had nothing to do with Sgt. Pepper 's band "but it worked because we said it did"...  sorry there's no "difference between writing the Beatles next single and writing a song to fit into a movie soundtrack"...  you use interview references to support this claim so how about another from Paul...  when he was asked about his songwriting process back then he said something like "I don't know how they come about, they just come out"...:-)

3 January 2019
4.44am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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The only difference i see in writing for a movie soundtrack is that you won't write things like Run For Your Life , you better write more comercial stuff like You're Going To Lose That Girl or Ticket To Ride ...
But i don't think Help ! (the album) is less innovative for being a bunch of songs designed as a soundtrack.
You can argue the handcuffs in Rubber Soul being the deadline. They recorded it pretty fast from October to November (whereas Help was recorded from February to June). They didn't have much time to experiment + the overall sound of the record is very much similar to the sound of Help !

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3 January 2019
5.24pm
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Elementary Penguin
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Help ! may have been written with the film in mind but John also said that he was crying for help so I would say that he had an idea to write a personal song about how he was feeling and the fact that he needed to write a song as the films title track would have influenced him to write the song about how he was feeling at the time. 

And in the end the lunch you take is equal to the lunch you bake.

23 May 2019
1.36am
Hazza
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I’d say Revolver is the last early Beatles album, but more because of when it was released than the actual music on it. Musically it’s more late Beatles but because it came out when they were still touring, still had the mop-top look, and were still making appearances on shows like Top Of The Pops, I consider it early.

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24 May 2019
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StrawberryFields91
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I've always considered Help ! the last early album. 

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17 June 2019
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WillowRunSon
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If you look at it from an American fan point of view from the '60's then the Middle Period is, Rubber Soul , Yesterday And Today & Revolver .

Those three albums contained 2 songs (2 total not each) from the UK Help ! album.

Regardless of that I can see why when defining the eras of the UK albums that Help ! is considered a Middle Era album.

I find it hard to divide them in 3 eras, I have to do 4 so here is the way I see it using the UK albums. And Magical Mystery Tour as an album, it seems to be international canon now.

Intro

Please Please Me

With The Beatles

A Hard Day's Night

Beatles For Sale

2nd Act;

Help !

Rubber Soul

Revolver

Toppermost

Sgt Pepper 's Lonely Hearts Club Band

Magical Mystery Tour  

The Beatles

Yellow Submarine

Goodnight

Let It Be

Abbey Road

• P.S.

Past Masters Vol 1 & 2

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17 June 2019
7.49pm
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Kaniffee
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I knew that seemed off at first.   And then I realized.

There's no A Hard Day's Night !

a-hard-days-night-john-1a-hard-days-night-paul-3a-hard-days-night-george-4a-hard-days-night-ringo-11

I would do basically the same thing as you but everything shifted over one, and Yellow Submarine in awkward limbo.

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17 June 2019
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WillowRunSon
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Kaniffee said
I knew that seemed off at first.   And then I realized.

There's no A Hard Day's Night !

a-hard-days-night-john-1a-hard-days-night-paul-3a-hard-days-night-george-4a-hard-days-night-ringo-11

I would do basically the same thing as you but everything shifted over one, and Yellow Submarine in awkward limbo.

  

Thanx 4 the head's up, I fixed it 🙂

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