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What do you consider the last "early" Beatles album? (Classify the Beatles albums by era)
29 December 2018
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QuarryMan said

I once had someone try to tell me that the Beatles weren't good musicians by saying 'name one memorable McCartney bass line". I made sure to give them an extensive list.  

That is legitimately the weakest argument I have ever heard in all my years of living

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29 December 2018
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50yearslate said

That is legitimately the weakest argument I have ever heard in all my years of living  

Well we all know that 9 times out of 10 somebody hating on them hasn't heard any of their songs beyond Hey Jude and I Want To Hold Your Hand

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29 December 2018
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QuarryMan said

Well we all know that 9 times out of 10 somebody hating on them hasn't heard any of their songs beyond Hey Jude and I Want To Hold Your Hand .   

Those are two of my favorite songs... 

But I agree. 

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30 December 2018
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50yearslate said

Those are two of my favorite songs... 

But I agree.   

Me too! I wasn't saying anything bad about those songs, just that it would be easy to hear those and think that was the depth of their musical career, when in reality in doesn't even hint at stuff like TMK and SFF which would probably floor said person if they heard it then found out it was The Beatles.

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30 December 2018
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QuarryMan said

Me too! I wasn't saying anything bad about those songs, just that it would be easy to hear those and think that was the depth of their musical career, when in reality in doesn't even hint at stuff like TMK and SFF which would probably floor said person if they heard it then found out it was The Beatles.  

Yes, of course! Well said. One of the best things about the Beatles is that there's more or less something for everyone, because all their music is just so diverse. 

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30 December 2018
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50yearslate said

Yes, of course! Well said. One of the best things about the Beatles is that there's more or less something for everyone, because all their music is just so diverse.   

Absolutely. Aside from jazz, which is a whole different world really, there weren't really any genres around back then (except for super niche ones) that they didn't cover, take inspiration from or reference in their music. I can only think of a couple other artists who have been so truly varied in their output.

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30 December 2018
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Actually, they did take influence from jazz, you can hear this jazz influence on Till There Was You and Honey Pie .

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30 December 2018
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Dark Overlord said
Actually, they did take influence from jazz, you can hear this jazz influence on Till There Was You and Honey Pie .  

Yeah, there are occasionally elements of it. But compared to actual jazz music coming out at the time it's completely different.

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30 December 2018
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Just to keep things on topic

(14 January 2016) Shamrock Womlbs said
to me it's Beatles For Sale .

I see Help ! as the starting point to their middle period.  

And still see it that way a-hard-days-night-george-4

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30 December 2018
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In terms of jazz improvisation on jazzy instruments, I'd say the brass soloing on "Lady Madonna " and "Northern Song" meets the criteria - with Paul's untrained (and electronically speeded-up) trumpet borrowing from the avant-garde as well.

And if we're talking early vs. late, with no "right on time" option, I put the dividing line between H! and RS.

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31 December 2018
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Von Bontee said
In terms of jazz improvisation on jazzy instruments, I'd say the brass soloing on "Lady Madonna " and "Northern Song" meets the criteria - with Paul's untrained (and electronically speeded-up) trumpet borrowing from the avant-garde as well.

And if we're talking early vs. late, with no "right on time" option, I put the dividing line between H! and RS.  

Yeah, also the saxophones on Savoy Truffle . A lot of Paul's 'granny' songs are sort of like vocal jazz standards a la Fly Me To The Moon or Straighten Up and Fly Right, but that's not really in the same league.

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31 December 2018
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QuarryMan said

Yeah, there are occasionally elements of it. But compared to actual jazz music coming out at the time it's completely different.  

Compared to the music of Coltrane and Davis and other bebop players pushing the the boundaries of modal jazz it does sound completely different. But to refer to it as “actual jazz” and ingnore the similarities between the Beatles and other jazz artists at the time. Bossa, Lounge and Big Band elements were included in Beatles songs, while leading into the late sixties and seventies jazz musicians began to take influence from the Beatles’s recording tecniques. While the Beatles are very far off from Bitches Brew, Giant Steps or Ascension, those recordings do not necessarily define “real jazz.” 

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1 January 2019
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sir walter raleigh said

Compared to the music of Coltrane and Davis and other bebop players pushing the the boundaries of modal jazz it does sound completely different. But to refer to it as “actual jazz” and ingnore the similarities between the Beatles and other jazz artists at the time. Bossa, Lounge and Big Band elements were included in Beatles songs, while leading into the late sixties and seventies jazz musicians began to take influence from the Beatles’s recording tecniques. While the Beatles are very far off from Bitches Brew, Giant Steps or Ascension, those recordings do not necessarily define “real jazz.”   

Yeah, agreed. By 'actual jazz' I mostly meant instrumental jazz. 

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1 January 2019
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Could this conversation about jazz, should you want to continue it, be moved elsewhere?

This thread is not about the influence of jazz on The Beatles.

blue-meanieblue-meanieblue-meanie

stay-on-topic

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1 January 2019
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Ron Nasty said
Could this conversation about jazz, should you want to continue it, be moved elsewhere?

This thread is not about the influence of jazz on The Beatles.

blue-meanieblue-meanieblue-meanie

stay-on-topic  

I'll make a new thread at some point, seems like an interesting topic to pursue.

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1 January 2019
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You can be sure to find me posting in that thread if you make it @QuarryMan 

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sir walter raleigh said
You can be sure to find me posting in that thread if you make it @QuarryMan   

Haha QuarryMan started a pure jazz thread already, almost exactly a year ago! Which was subsequently locked by Joe during the March purge. 🙁  So yeah, maybe any further discussion on the topic should be taken to the derail thread; or a "Beatles and Jazz" thread can be created if necessary.

But yeah, sorry, RN is right:stay-on-topic

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I know this is a common opinion but I tend to agree that Beatles For Sale is the last of the early albums and Help ! is the beginning of their middle period. 

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Don't think it's a common opinion here, @Elementary Penguin... Most of the discussion here is about whether Help !Rubber Soul or Revolver  is where they enter the "middle period". My argument, as I explain above, is that RS is the pivot between early and middle.

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Elementary Penguin said
I know this is a common opinion but I tend to agree that Beatles For Sale is the last of the early albums and Help ! is the beginning of their middle period.   

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8I feel the same way.

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