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We Can Work It Out - Politics & Philosophy
1 March 2017
4.48pm
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Starr Test
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Ron Nasty said
I don’t understand @Starr Test’s response at all, his first example sounds more like two drunks swapping punches to see who can stay standing the longest. That’s not self-defense. If somebody launches an unprovoked assault on you, they don’t throw one punch and then say, “Your turn!” That sounds more like “shenanigans” from the Simpsons. The idea that, if you’re attacked, and you defend yourself, you shouldn’t be allowed to press charges is ludicrous. So, you’ve been attacked on your way home by someone out of their mind on drugs who needs money, and though you’ve done your best to defend yourself, you end up being badly beaten and robbed, and the person who has committed this CRIME you should allow to get away with it. Really? Obviously, if it’s just a heat-of-the-moment thing between friends, maybe… but I’m not sure a falling-out between friends that’s made up the next day is what @HMBeatlesfan has in mind here.

Interesting post. Anyways, there are many reasons that you shouldn’t be able to press charges if you defend yourself:

1. If you get into a fight because someone hit you, you’re getting even with them but if you hit them and press charges, you’re making it so you’re getting more back then the other person.

2. Although you can recover from a punch, you have to admit that if you hit back, you are hurting the person as well, so it’s not like you’re the only one getting hurt and there are actually times where I’ve gotten into fights that end with both of us bleeding and barely able to get up

3. It’s stupid to press charges for a simple assault, which is what I was referring to in the post, and it makes the victim look like a pussy. I’ve actually gotten arrested for this and trust me on this, if I could, I’d make it so simple assaults non-arrestable (unless if you are one of the people I mention in #2 of course).

Ron Nasty said
And, the same counts for point two. Now, I won’t pretend I have not hit a female. My younger sister and I had physical fights during our early years (probably up until around 10). I was brought up never to hit a woman, and with the exception of Helen, I cannot think another woman I have ever hit. However, were I attacked by a woman, I would have no problem defending myself, including hitting back if necessary.

I was brought up to believe that hitting females is wrong, so that’s why I think it’s wrong, similar to how I grew up with The Beatles so I like to listen to The Beatles.

Ron Nasty said
The same with someone with a disability. Does, as an example, an ex-soldier who’s lost a limb to an IED present a lesser threat to your life than an ex-soldier who hasn’t lost a limb? Both have had the same training to do damage.

If 2 soldiers have the same amount of training but one of them is missing a limb, the amputee is going to get his ass kicked, are you really that stupid. Also, I was referring to people like this.

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Ron Nasty said
And, while obviously you shouldn’t react to young children as you would otherwise, an attack by a 14-year-old 200lb 6ft youth could see you just as badly hurt as attack by someone of any age that size.

Good point, but I use the age of consent to determine whether or not the person is old enough for me to hit, which is typically agreed to be 16.

Ron Nasty said
And the third just sounds like, again, fighting for fun. “Ooo! I’ve been trying to mug you for ten minutes, but you just keep on trying to stop me. Let’s just shake hands and forget it.”

Number 3 sure sounds stupid, doesn’t it, don’t why I put it there.

Ron Nasty said
Self-defense is a necessary evil in some situations. No more force than is necessary should be used. Should that self-defense result in serious injury or death, the justification should open to be examined in a court.

Human life is precious and killing someone would be playing god, I believe even people like Adolf Hitler and Saddam Hussein should get life in prison instead of being executed and if I was in a situation where someone was going to kill me, I would try several different things, such as:

1. Run For Your Life

2. hit him enough so he can’t get up but not enough so he is dead or permanently injured

3. restraining him

4. the paper bag method, you can see this being done in The Simpsons episode Sex, Pies, And Idiot Scrapes, it renders the victim unconscious, but doesn’t kill him

5. grabbing the gun and either taking it from him or holding it in my hand so that when he pulls the trigger, my hand may be in shit condition but I’m not dead

Ron Nasty said
However, the laws which govern a justifiable response need to be strong. America has weak laws on what is self-defense, in my opinion. The murder of Travyon Martin showed that, shot for being African-American in a white area.

Agreed.

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1 March 2017
6.57pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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At all the schools I have been to, if you were attacked and you defended yourself, you would both get in trouble. You were just supposed to take it if you didn’t want to get suspended.

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2 March 2017
9.29am
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Starr Test
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Are there exceptions to that, like for example, if he was touching your privates without your permission and you punched him, would both of you get in trouble, or if he was trying to shank you and you hit him, would you both get in trouble. Back in the 60’s and 70’s, schools weren’t so pacifistic, teachers didn’t mind self defense and if someone hit you and you hit back, you would most likely not get in trouble, at least in the area I lived in. Nowadays, schools like to do contradicting things, such as not supporting self defense, but support the military or encouraging kids to use the bathroom when they need to, but not having bathrooms on school buses and writing up kids who piss in a bottle on the bus if they get caught.

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2 March 2017
1.39pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy
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I’m not sure if there were exceptions. They certainly never let us know it if there were. My school had a no touching policy. We weren’t even allowed to give high fives or hugs (we were told that we had to give “air” high fives and “air” hugs so we wouldn’t actually touch the other person). One time there was a girl crying in the hallway and somebody was hugging her and then a teacher came up and said that we had a no touching policy.

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2 March 2017
2.37pm
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HMBeatlesfan
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Wow LPD, your school system really fucking sucks, it’s one thing to promote pacifism, but not allowing a hug or handshake is just bullshit. I wonder what happens if you hit one of your teachers because if they’re not allowed to touch you, you could do whatever the hell you want to them and they can do nothing about it, like as if they’re your bitch, either that or they believe that cops don’t have to follow the no touching rule which would sucks balls because I’d rather my teacher or a fellow classmate hit me than a cop, especially considering cops don’t mess around and use a lot of force, this is why I have a problem with pacifism.

Maybe you should try posting more.

2 March 2017
4.22pm
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Little Piggy Dragonguy said
I’m not sure if there were exceptions. They certainly never let us know it if there were. My school had a no touching policy. We weren’t even allowed to give high fives or hugs (we were told that we had to give “air” high fives and “air” hugs so we wouldn’t actually touch the other person). One time there was a girl crying in the hallway and somebody was hugging her and then a teacher came up and said that we had a no touching policy.  

In Care Work I was told we aren’t to hug those we support at all and if they are falling over we are to wait until they fall and then help them. We just ignore the stupid rule as how the hell can you comfort someone properly without contact or just watch someone fall over? I get why the rules are there but they are stupid and are to be broken.

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2 March 2017
5.20pm
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^ I  used to work in Irish camps during the summer, working with teens and kids between the ages of 10-17. We were always told to never touch one of them or be in a room with them by yourself just in case they are assholes or who have shitty parents who will report you for things you didn’t do but you have no backup because no one else was with you at the time. If you found yourself alone with them you were meant to leave the room immediately and go to another group of people, and if someone fell over you had to let another student pick them up.

Course if one of them was homesick you’d hug them anyways because it would be really awkward to say “sorry kid can’t do it, contract says no”.

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2 March 2017
9.25pm
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moriz
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Every school I’ve ever been to had a strict no-touching policy too. We weren’t allowed to show any affection to our friends in any form, basically, because “it might make other students feel left out.” Some teachers would let you hug your friends and stuff and wouldn’t tell, but others would freak out if you so much as high-fived someone.

The teachers were told they couldn’t be alone with students or touch them for any reason, even if they were physically hurt and needed help. They had to make other students do it. The ONLY exception was if a student needed CPR. Of course most teachers ignored these ridiculous rules.

I can also confirm that schools almost never punish just the bullies. I once saw my friend get straight-up punched in the face out of nowhere by a bully (who was known to have been violent in the past) in P.E., and he got in trouble for it because they “couldn’t be sure who started it.” The most infuriating thing about it? He hadn’t even tried to defend himself because he knew he would get in trouble if he did. He got suspended anyway.

2 March 2017
9.43pm
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Starr Shine?
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Should enforce the bully thing like how it would be in the outside world.

The person who punched would face a jury of their peers (or eyewitness) and based on that and past behavior, give them punishment.

Do an actual investigation.

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2 March 2017
10.36pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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None of my schools have ever had a no-touching policy! I didn’t know they existed!

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3 March 2017
12.01am
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^^^ None of my schools ever had no-touching policies either. I think that kind of thing would be sad, I like hugs sometimes, y’know. a-hard-days-night-ringo-7

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3 March 2017
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I don’t remember whether my schools did or not. I never touched anyone. I am neither a lover, nor a fighter.

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3 March 2017
1.40am
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Little Piggy Dragonguy said
We weren’t even allowed to give high fives or hugs

meanmistermustard said

I was told we aren’t to hug those we support at all and if they are falling over we are to wait until they fall and then help them.

AppleScruffJunior said
We were always told… if someone fell over you had to let another student pick them up.

moriz said
We weren’t allowed to show any affection to our friends in any form

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6 March 2017
6.49pm
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Starr Shine?
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What are your thoughts on language death? It is where languages stop being spoken as a first language by anyone.

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6 March 2017
6.58pm
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Horrific.

 

Being a speaker of a language that a lot of people want to just let die, I feel that such a tremendous amount of culture, oral and written history amongst countless other things would be lost when a language isn’t protected or promoted properly. 

Between 50%-90% of the languages currently spoken in the world will be extinct by 2100 and it’s such a shame that such a wealth of treasures will be lost to the world, if people don’t want to/can’t learn the language.

I think languages that have 10> fluent speakers (native or as a second language) should be catalogued both written and orally and let the records be passed onto language students, many of whom (such as myself) would be honoured to be allowed to give a language a second lease in life. 

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6 March 2017
8.55pm
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It happened to Latin so I’m fine with it.

Maybe you should try posting more.

6 March 2017
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AppleScruffJunior said
Between 50%-90% of the languages currently spoken in the world will be extinct by 2100 and it’s such a shame that such a wealth of treasures will be lost to the world, if people don’t want to/can’t learn the language.

Well, at least take condolense in the fact that you’ll be dead by then.

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7 March 2017
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I won’t even be 100 by then, so I might not be dead.

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7 March 2017
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Starr Shine? said 

What are your thoughts on language death? It is where languages stop being spoken as a first language by anyone.  

I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, the fewer languages, the better people will get at communicating internationally. On the other hand, it’s sad to see something die.

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7 March 2017
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Evangeline said

AppleScruffJunior said
Between 50%-90% of the languages currently spoken in the world will be extinct by 2100 and it’s such a shame that such a wealth of treasures will be lost to the world, if people don’t want to/can’t learn the language.

Well, at least take condolense in the fact that you’ll be dead by then.  

My family lives long, generally into their 90’s. I’ll be 102 by then and with advancement in medicine, so long as an accident doesn’t kill me first- it wouldn’t surprise me if you had people living well into their 100s at that point in the future.

 

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