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'Abbey Road' 50th Anniversary
28 September 2019
1.19am
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Ron Nasty
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I'm also not that keen on Giles' mix of I Want You. I think the problem is the last section. George's mix was heavy growing heavier, the weight of world pressing down as the white noise grew, getting more ominous and oppressive. You can feel it rumbling through your bones. Until it just stops.

Giles' mix just doesn't have that weight.

Also, I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the biggest revelation Giles' mix of The End  has revealed. It's obvious that Paul's behind the kit for the first eight seconds of the drum solo, no matter what the people who were there and the books say. ahdn_john_08_gifahdn_john_08_gifahdn_john_08_gifa-hard-days-night-george-10

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28 September 2019
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Listening to the mix now - and I agree. I'm probably famous for not liking the song on here, but even I can 'tolerate' the 1969 mix - but this mix sounds pretty flat, like they got classical musos to play it, but turned on the distortion. 

The other mixes are pretty good - I like 'The Long One', it's nice to hear the original concept. Also those backing vocals in YNGMYM - lovely to hear them for the first time! (The ooo ahh bit in the first section with the full drum pattern)

I need to actually listen from start to finish before I post intelligently though...

#AppleHoley2020: Get smelly people cleaned up! /-/ Make America hygienic again!
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28 September 2019
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Ron Nasty said
 

Also, I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the biggest revelation Giles' mix of The End  has revealed. It's obvious that Paul's behind the kit for the first eight seconds of the drum solo, no matter what the people who were there and the books say. ahdn_john_08_gifahdn_john_08_gifahdn_john_08_gifa-hard-days-night-george-10

  

OK I'll play.......

Why do you say that?

28 September 2019
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Ron Nasty
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It's a joke, @Wigwam, hence the three cheekily grinning John's and the winking George.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

28 September 2019
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I like jokes.......It wasn't Paul or Ringo it was this bloke...

 

28 September 2019
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yesterday I listened through it in one sitting as a whole experience. I don't know if I have too many things to say about the remix of the album. things sound different, but I'm not sure how different, I haven't compared. the big change I noticed that I really liked was how Her Majesty scrolled from right to left slowly as it went on. the scrolling felt like Her Majesty had more to it than the sum of its parts, which is the feeling I have felt for a long time and this just made the feeling apart of the song. but, aside from that, I don't really have any comments on the remix. I'm gonna do my best not to go track by track, but I'll point out the highlights for me.

-the take of "I want you" that opens disc 2 is fascinating. I didn't know that story about the noise complaint. but it makes the story of the song more interesting

-the demo of goodbye, I don't know if this was ever released eventually as a solo or a wings song, but it's quite nice. kinda reminds me of Heart Of The Country and would have fit in well on Ram . and if this was never released, it's amazing that this stayed hidden for so long. I bet they could make a few albums using just the demos of songs never put to record.

-The Ballad Of John And Yoko take 7, it was weird to hear it as just acoustic, drums and vocals. makes me wanna dance more than the original. it's not better, but it's different.

-Her Majesty takes 1-3, this song is good going by just once, but it's quite nice to have it go by a couple more times.

-Here Comes The Sun take 9, I was hoping with the biggest hopes that we'd officially have a version with the missing solo but alas we do not. oh well.

-Come And Get It , I think it's just the anthology version. nice to include and tells the story of the album's sessions but we've heard this version before.

-because take 1/instrumental. hearing Ringo do the count-in and keep time felt very eerie. it was weird. like I'm always reading about how "his presence was felt in the room in the recording and it shows in the song" but this makes Ringo's presence feel etherial.

-the long one, we've always been curious about Her Majesty being in the middle of the medley as it originally was before it was almost left on the cutting room floor, people have edited it over or made playlists of it in the spot all the time. and those edits and playlists were really cool... but for some reason here it just felt... underwhelming. it's exactly the same but for some reason here it just feels underwhelming. not sure why, but it just does.

-the two instrumentals. when I heard something's strings only release earlier this month my mind was blown. we had always heard the strings but it was kinda drowned out so we didn't know just what exactly was there. and on their own it is shocking. same for the strings/horns on Golden Slumbers /Carry That Weight . they're both are shocking to hear. absolutely beautiful. in my opinion, this is definitive proof Martin is number 5.

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28 September 2019
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The Hole Got Fixed said
I like 'The Long One', it's nice to hear the original concept.

  

This might have been the thing I anticipated more than any other.  I've heard the edits made by friends and others and had hoped to know what MMM-HM-PP really sounded like.  And to be honest, I don't think The Long One solves that hope.  To me, it really sound no better than what I've heard before, almost sloppy, just sort of dropped in there.  Certainly not what I expected.  I know HM was cut out and almost discarded, so maybe that's the best that could be done, but I wanted better. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

I do have to say I've only listened on Spotify and have no expectations to buy any version of the set, so when you all get your copies, please let me know if it's a digital thing.    

The Long One did finally answer, for me at least, that it is John that says "Oh look out."  I was probably the last one who thought it was Paul.        

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28 September 2019
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Mine arrived today.

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

28 September 2019
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I bought mine today (in the cardboard box it got shipped in from the warehouse) and will hopefully get around to the music tomorrow.

The packing overall and the book are stunning. I know it's expensive when broken down but, to be fair to Apple, they do the presentation well.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

28 September 2019
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Ron Nasty said
I'm also not that keen on Giles' mix of I Want You. I think the problem is the last section. George's mix was heavy growing heavier, the weight of world pressing down as the white noise grew, getting more ominous and oppressive. You can feel it rumbling through your bones. Until it just stops.

Giles' mix just doesn't have that weight.

  

Giles has a history for turning powerful mixes of tracks into meh. The 50th remixes of 'ADITL' and 'WYWY' I won't listen to due to all that makes them great being reduced to bland meh; everything is just there, slopped out on to the floor in one gloop so the depth and feeling are gone.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

28 September 2019
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meanmistermustard said 

Giles has a history for turning powerful mixes of tracks into meh. The 50th remixes of 'ADITL' and 'WYWY' I won't listen to due to all that makes them great being reduced to bland meh; everything is just there, slopped out on to the floor in one gloop so the depth and feeling are gone.

  

I feel the same way. I don't find the '17 Pepper & '18 White CDs any better than the 2009 CDs

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28 September 2019
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Bongo said

meanmistermustard said 

Giles has a history for turning powerful mixes of tracks into meh. The 50th remixes of 'ADITL' and 'WYWY' I won't listen to due to all that makes them great being reduced to bland meh; everything is just there, slopped out on to the floor in one gloop so the depth and feeling are gone.

  

I feel the same way. I don't find the '17 Pepper & '18 White CDs any better than the 2009 CDs

  

I admit I cannot think of any remix that surpasses or replace the standards* but I'm not sure they were meant to as they are still able to buy. Folk have been shouting for the catalogue to be remixed for years and now Apple are.

What does need to be remixed are the early albums to fix the harsh right/left mixes with the voices and instruments on either side. It's certainly possible to do so as a fan collection was recently upped to the web where all available outtakes and songs from Decca, the 'PPM ' album plus the recording sessions for 'FMTY', 'TYG' and 'OA909' have the vocals centred. I've only heard the 'PPM ' tracks so far and they are so much better than the current stereo mixes. Hopefully Apple does go back to these after 'LIB ', my fear is that they won't. Apple love an anniversary to coincide with the releases and 55 years of 'Revolver ' is not the same marketing-wise as 50, maybe they will go with the 60th year angle but who knows. But then you get the side of the argument of they've started so why don't they finish.

 

*Actually the '1+' remixes of 'Eleanor Rigby ', 'Free As A Bird ' and 'Real Love ' are brilliant, tho the last two are more reworked than remixed (I haven't listened to either 'Anthology' version since the new ones came out).

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28 September 2019
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Man, I thought I was the only one. I'm glad to see that people are hearing the problems with these remixes...they're not right, none of them. Some of them are decent, but all of them have something wrong going on and I would imagine that something as precious as the Beatles would get the utmost attention, but I guess not. It's easy to get fooled by a bigger, brighter, bassier sound. What's not as apparent (especially on first listens) is the subtle yet utmost important balancing choices. Geoff Emerick knew how to make records, Giles simply knows how to run equipment.

I don't hear any care taken on focusing each sound properly. All I hear is them trying to make it punchier and clearer. The only remix I've heard that matched up right was Strawberry Fields. Sgt Pepper was absolutely terrible, The White Album was just terrible, and Abbey Road is slightly less terrible than that. 

They're separating the sounds way too much. They don't gel together like they do in Geoff's mixes. I'm hearing all sorts of performance issues in vocals and instruments; sloppy playing, out of tune vocals...things that I never heard before and I studied the original records like a mental patient. These are things that a good mixing engineer knows how to balance correctly. Mind you, I'm not sitting and focusing intently on every little thing of these song. I have them on while driving, etc, and every song has aspects that negatively draws my attention.  

These remixes are an unfortunate cash-grab. They simply could've done a more heavy handed remaster. Most mastering engineers (especially if they're remastering classic records) are very light with their approach which is why modern remasters don't sound all that different, unless the originals were really really bad. With today's tech, there's a lot of amazing things they can pull from a simple 2 track stereo mix...BUT how many times can you put out another remaster and expect people to wanna pay?   

As a professional curiosity I will probably continue to listen to the remixes, but I can't for enjoyment.

PS: I'm tempted to listen to every song and A/B them to the originals and point out everything different and post it here. I might have some time tomorrow, I don't know. 

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29 September 2019
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Giles is going for the modern market where everything is clearer and brighter. If the younger generations get into the Beatles that way then so be it as long as the originals remain as the standards for those who want to hear it as originally mixed.

It should be remembered, however, that Giles isn't the first to remix the Beatles catalogue, George Martin remixed 'Help ' and 'Rubber Soul ' for the 1987 reissues and those are what you are buying in the shops; for the original 1965 mixes it's purchasing the 2009 Mono box or the pre-'87 albums. And then you start hitting the world of alternate mixes as some later mixes were swapped with the originals in the '70s (and even then 'Day Tripper ' was fixed on '1' in 2000 so that's not even what first came out). And then you get fold-down mono or fake stereo getting finally replaced with true mono or stereo. It's all about where the line is drawn as as settled as the Beatles core catalogue looks (buy two boxes and you're sorted), it can get very murky very quickly if someone gets too rigid with it. 

So, you could argue that I'm contradicting myself and I probably am.

 

Personally, my desire is for the outtakes. The remixes are there and some will be very good, some won't be, that's fine and good on Apple for finally doing it, but that is my main motivation for purchasing the sets.

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29 September 2019
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And, least we forget, there are the ears through who much of their US catalogue was heard, David Dexter. A whole set of remixes made as it was all still beginning and unfolding.

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29 September 2019
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There are also mixes (with or without edits) done by George Martin or his team not touched by Dexter but released in the '60s just not in the UK. 

Basically, under the nice calm waters, there is a raging sea of chaos and confusion that will swallow up anyone who goes for a dip. 

The entire history of the Beatles is set in questions, myths, confusion and contradictions when examined, why would the mixes be any different?

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29 September 2019
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meanmistermustard said
Giles is going for the modern market where everything is clearer and brighter. If the younger generations get into the Beatles that way then so be it as long as the originals remain as the standards for those who want to hear it as originally mixed.

I'm not mad at all that the songs are getting remixed and I'm not saying that clearer and brighter is bad, what I'm saying is that Giles is not the right man for the job. His mixes are revealing poor aspects of performances, such as playing out of time and singing out of tune, 2 things the younger generation is not at all familiar with. The Beatles sound younger and more energetic in the original mixes, vocally and instrumentally. A lot of the remixed songs sound slower to me, and I'm very aware of that because that happens to me when I'm mixing and it normally comes from improper emphasis on the kick drum, snare drum and bass.

I don't need to hear the same thing, but I do need to feel the same thing and I would LOVE bigger, beefier Beatles records, but I don't think that'll be done properly any time soon, at least with Pepper, the White Album and Abbey Road . He did get Strawberry Fields right. But I think 1 out of 60+ is a bad ratio.

They should've done shoot-outs with top contemporary mix engineers. Give them each 2 or 3 songs as a test and see which one maintained the integrity of the originals while bringing the nice modern oomph. My vote would go to Andy Wallace who mixed Paul's "Gratitude" and is quite possibly the best modern (even though his heyday was more in the early to mid 2000s) mixer of all time. He's a big Beatles fan and knows more than most how to make sound work.

Now I have heard that the label wants to make the remixes the definitive streaming versions, where you'd have to buy the CD (or something) of the originals if you want to hear them. That's what I'm afraid of. Hopefully that doesn't happen. 

meanmistermustard said
George Martin remixed 'Help ' and 'Rubber Soul ' for the 1987 reissues and those are what you are buying in the shops

Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but George liked to take full credit for doing things that he didn't really do, like the edit on Strawberry Fields. He didn't pick up a razor blade and cut the tape, Geoff Emerick probably did. Telling someone to do something verses actually doing it yourself is very differnt. It's very much a collaborative process. It's sad, especially with the way they did things back in the day, how engineers would get cut out of the credit they deserved. Puff Daddy was like that. He would actually take co-mixing credit just because he pushed a couple of faders. Meanwhile, they were all reset after he left the room.

Sir George might've actually grabbed the faders and EQs and compressors and did the 87 remixes but it was most likely an engineer doing it with George over seeing it. And it's also hard to mess up a mix when all you have is 4 premixed tracks to deal with. You'd kinda have to go out of your way to make it bad.

What's happening now is that they're digitally separating these premixed tracks (which I think is amazing that that is even possible) which gives them more than enough rope to hang themselves.

 

I don't see this as a case of being too rigid about changing things. These new mixes are musically bad. There are things about Geoff's original mixes that I wish were different but they're fairly minor and never ruin the songs for me. He knew how to get the right emotional impact from the instruments and vocals. He knew what to emphasize and, more importantly, what to deemphasize.

Like I said, Giles is an engineer, not a record maker. There's something very special in what a good mix engineer does. Learning how to work all the processors and mixing boards is tedious but not hard; knowing how to take a group of instruments and vocals and turning them into a record is. 

meanmistermustard said
Personally, my desire is for the outtakes. The remixes are there and some will be very good, some won't be, that's fine and good on Apple for finally doing it, but that is my main motivation for purchasing the sets.

I LOVE the outtakes. Back in the day I used to go to the village in Manhattan to all the bootleg record stores looking for all the alternate versions I read about in the Beatles recording book. I had a pretty extensive collection. One of my favorites was this fast version of Get Back with George using a wah pedal. At one point there was a flub and everyone stopped except for Ringo and he quickly whipped out the CRAZIEST drum solo for a couple bars and BOOM...the rest of the band kicked in like it was nothing. I'm getting the chills just thinking about it. I also had the early rough mixes of the White Album and Bungalow Bill and Happiness Is Warm Gun sounded amazing with the bass being very thick and prominent.  

Sadly though, Apple is doing this strictly for the money, so shame on them. If these remixes aren't strictly a corporate decision than the quality assurance people that it has to pass through are losing their hearing. 

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29 September 2019
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So according to the companion book only Ringo and Paul sing the chorus (double tracked) in Carry That Weight .

Now that is a shockeroo. My long held fantasy bubble that it is all four of them singing has been burst!

But then again, who to believe?

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29 September 2019
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meanmistermustard said
Personally, my desire is for the outtakes. The remixes are there and some will be very good, some won't be, that's fine and good on Apple for finally doing it, but that is my main motivation for purchasing the sets.

I too can't wait to hear the outtakes mmm.  Let me know if you find them on YouTube.  

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29 September 2019
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Bongo said

meanmistermustard said

Personally, my desire is for the outtakes. The remixes are there and some will be very good, some won't be, that's fine and good on Apple for finally doing it, but that is my main motivation for purchasing the sets.

I too can't wait to hear the outtakes mmm.  Let me know if you find them on YouTube.  

You were a life saver last year, when you found all the White Album outtakes.paul-mccartney-thumb_gif

  

I don't remember that. I was surprised to find take 8 of 'Rocky Raccoon ' on youtube a month or so ago.

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