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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
30 May 2016
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sgtpepper63
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Zig said
Conversations such as this one can be interesting and thought provoking as long as they remain civil. Thanks go to mmm and AG for steering the topic back on course after an unfortunate turn.

Any one of us can cite sources that defend a position of either "I think he was gay" or "I don't think he was gay". That's fine - thought provoking. To use those same sources to defend any position that he "definitely" was or was not is foolish to the nth degree. As much as I love John and his work, he was not a stable person. He would say or write anything any time, true or not, just to get a reaction. That renders useless most of those sources I mentioned. This thread has proven that most sources used as a "yes he is" can also be spun into a "no he's not" and vice versa. 

Please continue this discussion if you must. Again, it can be interesting. But unless we heard it from John himself, in a moment of honesty, a definitive answer will never be proven. Don't kid yourself.  

In all honesty, the reason I feel that John is straight is the relationship he had with Yoko. He really loved and cared for her. Though now that I think about it, he could've been hiding part of himself in the closet (Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey).

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Just thought this was interesting:

"I've rarely seen pain like John's, and I've seen a lot of pain. It was mostly about his mother but quite a bit about Brian (Epstein) that I can't talk about." --Arthur Janov

Why couldn't he talk about it. Was it gay?

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

3 February 2017
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Was Brian dead at the time?

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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Starr Shine? said
Was Brian dead at the time?  

Yes.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

3 February 2017
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sir walter raleigh
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I'm sure we've heard rumors of an Epstein affair. I wouldn't be surprised if he had feelings for Brian, and felt especially torn up about his death. 

I've heard Lennon slept with Bowie as well. Any truth to this?

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I haven't heard anything conclusive about John and David but I wouldn't be surprised.  The rumors about him and Brian were started by John himself. It's likely that the rumors are the truth and he was just throwing people off his trail when he said he made the stories up.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

24 October 2017
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I thought of John when I read about this scientific study showing that straight people don't exist.

https://broadly.vice.com/en_us.....ource=dmfb

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24 October 2017
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Joe talks about John and Brian and a certain interaction between them and Bob Wooler in his new book. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

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31 December 2017
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Sorry to necro this thread, but I just have to say as a bisexual person myself, the term "gay leanings" drives me up a wall and I'm highly resentful of it.  Sexual orientation in general is way more fluid than people think, for starters.  Let me clarify: Bisexual people do actually exist.  When one of us is in a relationship with a person of the same sex, we are not gay, we are still bisexual.  When one of us is in a relationship with someone of the opposite sex, we are still bi, we do not become straight because of who we're partnered with.  Our partnership does not dictate our sexual orientation.  I'm a bisexual woman and when I'm with a man, I'm not straight.  I still find women attractive.  Same goes for if I'm with a woman.  I'm not a lesbian, and I still find men attractive.  

ANYWAY back on topic:  The John having "gay leanings" rumor does fascinate me, and what fascinates me most is when people speculate about him and Paul.  Now, as much as I find it grating that people write fanfiction shipping actual, living people (I take no issue with the shipping of fictional characters, mind you, it just seems disrespectful when the shipping involves real people who may stumble upon the stories online and feel creeped out by strangers shipping them with people who are no longer living and with whom they shared years of their life - I hope Paul, or John's kids, haven't found "McLennon" slash, lol), I can *kind of* see why people simply speculate about John and Paul.  It mostly has to do with the homophobic idea that two men can't possibly be close and intimate with one another without being TOTALLY GHEY! 

So here's my take just on J+P alone - it's just my two cents and overpriced at that.  I wouldn't even attempt to speculate on the dynamic between John and Brian Epstein because that dynamic is even harder to observe.  If anything did happen, I'd be mostly concerned about the power imbalance between Brian and John more than whether or not they had any kind of relationship beyond professional, but Brian was reportedly very lonely and probably craved for a normal and stable relationship he knew he may never have.  John was captivating and interesting and I could SEE Epstein becoming infatuated with him.  But at any rate, John and Paul had a really unique relationship and almost spoke their own language with each other, which anyone who's ever been in a really close relationship of any kind (platonic or romantic) may have noticed happening in their own relationship.  For example, my husband and I have words and phrases we use with each other, and even some hand gestures, that if other people witnessed, wouldn't be understood.  We didn't sit down and orchestrate our "language," but it manifested incrementally over years of bonding.  One observable example is that John and Paul did this weird spider-hand gesture thing with each other for years (which can be observed in some of the earlier interviews they did as a group with the press), and often when you listen to session tapes their speech to each other isn't linear and cohesive, but they always "get" what the other one is telling them.  It was a relationship, and it was complicated and intense.  Even their significant others, friends, and colleagues made comments on how intertwined they were over the years.  It didn't necessarily have to be sexual, but I would argue it was a KIND of romance (and some people have even affectionately called it a bromance).

The two themselves even talked about their partnership and the breakup and aftermath of it like people speak of the life and death of a marriage.  My opinion and observation about closeness and relationships is that it's not impossible for two people of the same sex who lean towards preferring partners of the opposite sex to become very close and develop an intense bond like that of Lennon-McCartney.  It's not as if the two men were bastions of marital fidelity, either.  They had dalliances with other women while in committed relationships, so it's not out of the boundary of possibility that John may have had dalliances with men as well.  He may have even had a crush on Paul, at least during some of their time together, and why the hell is that completely out of the realm of possibility to some people?  Maybe it blew over and he got over it, or maybe he was in love with his partner and never had the nerve to do anything about it?  It's not impossible, and I'm not sure why the possibility of such a thing existing offends people so badly on the Internet.  They were extremely important to each other their entire time of knowing one another, particularly in their formative, coming-of-age years, were forced to live in a bubble together during Beatlemania, and continued to be important to each other later on, even when they had a rift for some time, and even if they didn't quite get back to the level of closeness they had pre-1970's because of the trauma that relationship endured. 

Anywho, I will never say never to Lennon being bisexual, but I could be BI-ased (sorry, I know that's a terrible pun, but I couldn't resist) because I'm fortunate enough to be alive in an era where being bi is generally accepted.  If you think about it, in their time, the consensus was even more pointed towards the mentality that you not only must "pick a side" in terms of your sexual orientation, but also that if you WERE gay, you'd better well keep it a secret because it could ruin your life and jeopardize your safety (and the Beatles' own safety was already in jeopardy as we all know) if people were to know, or at least if you were to openly admit and own it.  I can see John, knowing what we do conclusively know about him, being not only a highly intelligent person, but a bit of an iconoclast, being bisexual and aware of the fact that he liked women AND men, but feeling insecure about it because of society's attitudes, and also knowing he couldn't exactly go around telling everyone given the potential consequences.  Had he come of age today, he may well have been out and openly had relationship with both genders as many celebrities are today.  Human sexuality is way more fluid and flexible than we knew back then.  It could also explain Lennon's extreme defensiveness when he was accused of sexual dalliances with men, knowing this about himself and maybe not accepting it, or at least feeling a lot of insecurity about it, because it was still such a taboo.  He even admits in a recorded interview just before his death that the Bob Wooler incident was sparked not just by drunkenness but his own insecurity about the issue itself.

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1 January 2018
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@her_magesty   Need anyone say more? apple01

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'Did John Lennon have gay leanings?' I've always wondered this myself. You hear about when he went off to Spain with Epstein,and what supposedly happened there. I've heard also that he slept with Bowie and Mick Jagger,but the one I've always wondered about: 

We all know he was very close with Stuart Sutcliffe. I've always wondered if John's feelings for him were more romantic in nature than just loving Stu as a friend. 

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MadisonMcCartney2267 said
@her_magesty   Need anyone say more? apple01  

I quite agree. Well worth a read, that massive effortpost.

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her_magesty said
Sorry to necro this thread, but I just have to say as a bisexual person myself, the term "gay leanings" drives me up a wall and I'm highly resentful of it.  Sexual orientation in general is way more fluid than people think, for starters. 

... He even admits in a recorded interview just before his death that the Bob Wooler incident was sparked not just by drunkenness but his own insecurity about the issue itself.  

I believe in the interview he said he was "afraid of the fag" in him.

I recently read an article about a study that shows straight people don't even exist. They showed gay porn to a bunch of straight people and they were all aroused by it according to the reactions of their pupils. (Ahh, I see that I already posted about it above).

I am definitely aware that sexuality is a spectrum. I guess you could say that gay people have "straight leanings," and straight people have "gay leanings," and bi people are in the middle. But we have established that John was bi, because Yoko said he was. I'm sorry you resent the word "leanings." It was not meant to offend, of course. I find that people these days get quite upset over terminology and labels.

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Sexual orientation is fluid; straight people don't exist, "gays are born that way" -- make up your mind (I say to the Zeitgeist). 

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5 January 2018
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It is a spectrum but where you are on that spectrum isn't up to you.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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I’m not so sure about that. There are certain things I used to find repulsive that I now don’t (not saying what they are). People change over time because of what they are exposed to.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

5 January 2018
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I’m not sure the gay porn experiment is indicative of purely straight men not existing. Not enough is said about how they were chosen, or if they knew what they were going to be shown going in to the experiment. 

As a straight man, i’m not at all bothered by John’s alleged homosexual history. Yet I don’t think that John’s case is representative of all people. 

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6 January 2018
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I don't believe you can help who you fall in love with, worrying if it's ok within society's acceptable boundaries is idiotic (not that I'm endorsing paedophilia, mad stalking etc).  

I don't see why it matters if when a man falls in love with another man he was born that way. I certainly don't care. At times it's like people are trying to find an excuse so it's then acceptable. Same goes for trying to explain the reasons for someone falling in love with someone older or younger by a decade or more, which can also be unacceptable within circles, or any other examples of relationship types.

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True. I’ve always been attracted to younger women. My wife is 14 years younger. It’s not an issue for us because I look about ten years younger than I am and she has always dressed older than her age.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

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I was reminded of this thread today after seeing this: https://78.media.tumblr.com/tu.....o1_500.gif

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