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Did John Lennon have gay leanings?
6 October 2020
2.54am
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Tony Japanese
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I haven’t got time to read through all twenty-seven pages of this thread so can somebody tell me the answer, or am I going to have to wait until Volume 2 or 3 of Mark Lewisohn’s biography.

It’s perfectly possible to recognise that somebody is attractive without being (sexually) attracted to them, btw.

6 October 2020
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meanmistermustard
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Tony Japanese said
I haven’t got time to read through all twenty-seven pages of this thread so can somebody tell me the answer, or am I going to have to wait until Volume 2 or 3 of Mark Lewisohn’s biography.

It’s perfectly possible to recognise that somebody is attractive without being (sexually) attracted to them, btw.

  

My answer would be “Who cares? It makes no difference whatsoever”.

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10 October 2020
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John was far from the only rock star in the 60s to exhibit bisexual behaviour. Jagger,Townshend,Dave Davies,bowie,lou reed….. the list is endless. 

What is interesting is that John seemed to enjoy the attention of being pursued by men and enjoyed that power. He seemed to enjoy being the focus of the proverbial ‘tug of love’ and getting people to fight for his attention ….without getting too analytical that may stem back to his youth with his mother, father and aunt all pulling at him in various directions.

It’s almost certain that he had sexual relationships with Stuart Sutcliffe and Brian Epstein. So I guess he did have ‘leanings’ in that direction, but so what if he did ?

15 October 2020
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I think it’s interesting how people tend to come on this thread and say things about the thread being pointless and question why should we care about John’s sexuality, when the same people are probably buying books that have photo reproductions of John’s shopping list and doodles he drew on airline stationary, which are actually pointless.

Personally, I think knowing that John was bisexual is very educational because his repressed sexuality and his conflicted feelings about it explain some of his violent behavior. Not pointless knowledge at all, at least if you are interested in understanding the psyche of a very brilliant man.

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15 October 2020
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Reminds me of when people comment on YouTube videos how much they don’t care about or dislike the video or the person, to which I am always compelled to respond, “You cared enough to comment on it, didn’t you?” billy-preston_01_gif

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16 October 2020
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Expert Textpert said
I think it’s interesting how people tend to come on this thread and say things about the thread being pointless and question why should we care about John’s sexuality, when the same people are probably buying books that have photo reproductions of John’s shopping list and doodles he drew on airline stationary, which are actually pointless.

Personally, I think knowing that John was bisexual is very educational because his repressed sexuality and his conflicted feelings about it explain some of his violent behavior. Not pointless knowledge at all, at least if you are interested in understanding the psyche of a very brilliant man.

  

Maybe. I tend to think John became quite relaxed about his bi-sexuality. He donated drawings and writings to the gay liberation book after all, and the things he and Yoko had to say on the subject over the years don’t show someone who was particularly repressed either.

John’s bisexual attraction to other men is clear from his own accounts and of those close to him. 

16 October 2020
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He beat up Bob Wooler for insinuating he was gay at a party in the 60s.

"Drag, isn’t it?” —Paul McCartney 

19 October 2020
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Expert Textpert said
He beat up Bob Wooler for insinuating he was gay at a party in the 60s.

  

He was a very young, very drunk man though. I tend to think he relaxed about his sexuality over the years, within 10 years he was providing erotic drawings for the gay liberation book. His problems lay elsewhere I feel.

My tuppence worth is that John had genuine psychiatric problems stemming from his childhood, only compounded by his fame and the drug intake he used to try and blank them out. He really needed proper professional help instead of crank diets,gurus and ‘cures’ like primal scream. It doesn’t make his horrible behaviour at times forgivable, but it does allow us to understand. The saddest thing is that while he showed genuine regret and self loathing over his actions across his life, he kept on making the same mistakes.

While there are a lot of unflattering things you can say about The Beatles, they were more fundamentally far more decent human beings than The Rolling Stones for instance. They had literally zero redeeming qualities. I absolutely loathe them to this day.

I’ll say one thing about John, he tried and frequently failed to be a good person but he never gave up or stopped realising it was a worthwhile thing to be doing. He said some exceptionally loving and forgiving things in those last interviews he gave that prove it.

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24 October 2020
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There were many quotes from Yoko that implied what she thought (but people think she’s just doing it for attention) like Paul being called John’s Princess around Abbey Road studios and the quote ‘If Paul was a woman John would have been in love with her’ (paraphrasing). Many other mclennon fans think that My little Flower Princess was for Paul as well because he says something like ‘my little friend’ which they don’t think he would refer to Yoko as. ahdn_paul_06a-hard-days-night-john-1

24 October 2020
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I never got any verification for the John’s Princess quote.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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25 October 2020
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Expert Textpert said
I think it’s interesting how people tend to come on this thread and say things about the thread being pointless and question why should we care about John’s sexuality, when the same people are probably buying books that have photo reproductions of John’s shopping list and doodles he drew on airline stationary, which are actually pointless.

Personally, I think knowing that John was bisexual is very educational because his repressed sexuality and his conflicted feelings about it explain some of his violent behavior. Not pointless knowledge at all, at least if you are interested in understanding the psyche of a very brilliant man.

  

John, like Brian, grew up in a very difficult time to be anything that was not considered mainstream or “normal”. Maybe John was gay or Bi/ Maybe, if he was, his internal conflicts were solely / partly related, maybe not.

I think, in some ways, John’s internal conflicts were a big contributor to his genius.

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26 October 2020
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Expert Textpert said
I think it’s interesting how people tend to come on this thread and say things about the thread being pointless and question why should we care about John’s sexuality, when the same people are probably buying books that have photo reproductions of John’s shopping list and doodles he drew on airline stationary, which are actually pointless.

Personally, I think knowing that John was bisexual is very educational because his repressed sexuality and his conflicted feelings about it explain some of his violent behavior. Not pointless knowledge at all, at least if you are interested in understanding the psyche of a very brilliant man.

  

I really like John’s sense of humour and drawings so I bought those type of books. I have no desire to spend hours reading speculation of whether John was homosexual when no one really knows and there is no definitive answer we can say is so. 

 

As for John’s assault on Bob Wooler, he was incredibly drunk at Paul’s 21st, was called “queer” and thought insinuations were being made about Brian and himself, we know John had that incredibly violent side to him from previous incidents and it flared here. It’s not proof that he was gay or anything happened and John himself said nothing happened between them. John also said in 1971 he wouldn’t have cared less if Bob made the same comments then.

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15 January 2021
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Beatlebug said
Reminds me of when people comment on YouTube videos how much they don’t care about or dislike the video or the person, to which I am always compelled to respond, “You cared enough to comment on it, didn’t you?” billy-preston_01_gif

  

I agree with that. If he were bisexual, it would be something to note. Not something that would change my opinion of him, but it would be significant. 

That said, I don’t know enough about the Sutcliffe relationship, so I’m reserving judgment. I’m in the middle of some Lennon bios.

About Epstein… it strikes me that the relationship was one-sided: Epstein was besotted with John, and John encouraged it to control Epstein. It was cruel on John’s part. But there was zero sexual attraction.

JMO.

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meanmistermustard said

Expert Textpert said

I think it’s interesting how people tend to come on this thread and say things about the thread being pointless and question why should we care about John’s sexuality, when the same people are probably buying books that have photo reproductions of John’s shopping list and doodles he drew on airline stationary, which are actually pointless.

Personally, I think knowing that John was bisexual is very educational because his repressed sexuality and his conflicted feelings about it explain some of his violent behavior. Not pointless knowledge at all, at least if you are interested in understanding the psyche of a very brilliant man.

  

I really like John’s sense of humour and drawings so I bought those type of books. I have no desire to spend hours reading speculation of whether John was homosexual when no one really knows and there is no definitive answer we can say is so. 

 

As for John’s assault on Bob Wooler, he was incredibly drunk at Paul’s 21st, was called “queer” and thought insinuations were being made about Brian and himself, we know John had that incredibly violent side to him from previous incidents and it flared here. It’s not proof that he was gay or anything happened and John himself said nothing happened between them. John also said in 1971 he wouldn’t have cared less if Bob made the same comments then.

  

Actually John said he beat up Wooler because he was “afraid of the fag” in him.

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23 May 2021
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meanmistermustard said
In a wide-ranging interview with ‘The Daily Beast‘ Yoko discusses John’s sexuality. A large part of the interview discusses John’s murder and as some folk dont want/like to read that i’ve copied and pasted the relevant section below.

So did Lennon ever have sex with men?

“No, I don’t think so,” says Ono. “The beginning of the year he was killed, he said to me, ‘I could have done it, but I can’t because I just never found somebody that was that attractive.’”

  

Does nobody else think that it’s odd that at “the beginning of the year he was killed” Lennon and Ono even had this conversation???

What was the trigger for this subject even being broached?

In Spring of 1980, Ono suggested that Lennon partake in another lost weekend, to escape the clouds that were casting a shadow over his life.

Two months on a boat without her.

What clouds? Why without her? Why would they even have that conversation at that time?

https://web.archive.org/web/20…..res26.html

And why did Ono answer The Daily Beast’s interviewer with “No, I don’t think so”, if Lennon supposedly told her he never had sex with men?

Either his response is a fabrication (or misremembered) by her, or his response was accurately relayed to the interviewer – and she still had doubts.

As for “McLennon”, I personally think it’s highly doubtful that Lennon and McCartney had anything more than a very intense fraternal-type relationship. When you’re so close to a friend (of any gender) that they become like a brother or sister, it usually doesn’t involve romantic feelings. Lennon and McCartney’s on/off spats seem more like sibling rivalry to me, than spurned lovers sniping at each other.

However… I’m of the opinion that Lennon did have romantic feelings towards Sutcliffe, and was as devastated by his death, as he was by the deaths of his mother & aunt – possibly moreso.

https://www.independent.co.uk/…..55651.html

I’m also of the opinion that Lennon’s recorded incidences of pre-1970s homophobia were simple deflections from scrutiny of his own apparent bisexuality, and he felt a deep empathy for Epstein (if not exactly love).

Yes, I’ve read all 28 preceding pages, and was surprised at the lack of attention given to John Lennon ‘s relationship with Stuart Sutcliffe.

He didn’t attend Sutcliffe’s funeral or even send flowers – which is more than odd. It strikes me as him being so grief-stricken that he was in denial, or guilt that he possibly contributed to the death.

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23 May 2021
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There are definitely men who claimed to have had sex with John. Can’t remember if I referenced it in this thread.

Congratulations on reading all the pages! 

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I’d say yes so I’ll have an excuse to write McLennon fanfiction.

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However… I’m of the opinion that Lennon did have romantic feelings towards Sutcliffe, and was as devastated by his death, as he was by the deaths of his mother & aunt – possibly moreso.

 

Cause yah no, close friendships don’t exist.

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24 May 2021
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Stu had a well documented romance with his fiancé Astrid as well. I guess it isnt impossible he got with John but there isn’t a lick of evidence

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