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You Never Give Me Your Money by Peter Doggett
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3 April 2015
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Expert Textpert
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I know I've discussed this book elsewhere on the forum. I recall quoting "jap tart."

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

3 April 2015
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ewe2
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bewareofchairsopined

u know, I wonder if George ever received nasty postcards from Paul. He never mentioned it, but if he didn't, he would've been the only one. If he did, then it might help explain some of the comments he made about Paul over the years. Either way it's interesting to think about.

That never occurred to me! Indeed it might explain a few things! George was silent about many things...

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Beatlebug

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3 April 2015
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Ahhh Girl
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Expert Textpert said

I know I've discussed this book elsewhere on the forum. I recall quoting "jap tart."

@Expert Textpert, here's where I found where you discussed that phrase http://www.beatlesbible.com/fo.....-9/#p85335

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9 April 2015
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I agree that this is a very good book. I was skeptical as to whether I would enjoy a book about the Beatles' business dealings, but it was very enlightening.

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me." --George Harrison

9 April 2015
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vonbontee
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Yeah, I'll probably have to give it the as-recommended second reading, as soon as I'm done with the novel I've got going now...been thinking about it since the thread revival.

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

17 April 2015
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Von Bontee
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...and, as promised, I checked it out of the library again and started re-reading. 

Jacket blurb describes it as "impossible to put down", and I demonstrated the verifiability of this claim this very morning on the bus, by reading as it rolled right past my stop, and the next one. Ultimately added another nine minutes to my ultimate walking time by the time I finally looked up. Thanks a LOT, Doggett!

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One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

17 April 2015
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Von Bontee said
...and, as promised, I checked it out of the library again and started re-reading. 

Jacket blurb describes it as "impossible to put down", and I demonstrated the verifiability of this claim this very morning on the bus, by reading as it rolled right past my stop, and the next one. Ultimately added another nine minutes to my ultimate walking time by the time I finally looked up. Thanks a LOT, Doggett!

It will help keep you healthy.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

17 April 2015
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Von Bontee
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...and late! :)

But yeah, you're right. I like walking anyways, especially when the weather's as nice as today. 

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One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

29 December 2015
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One of the best books about The Beatles that I have read.  Gives a fascinating insight into the Beatles as a business, how it was run (poorly a lot of the time).  A must have title to any collector.

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10 August 2016
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The Hippie Chick
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Currently reading this on my Kindle. I'm not even half way yet. It's been quite interesting. Seems to be a thoroughly researched book. I'll elaborate more and gather my thoughts once I finish.

“She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.”  - J.D. Salinger

10 August 2016
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I've read this and I agree it is a really good and well researched book that lifts the lid on the financial shenanigans that went on with Apple and beyond. 

 

Regarding the "Jap Tart incident" I was just thinking about this and reading between the lines is it possible that John also sent Paul some humorous but cruel postcards? It would fit in with his known sense of humour. So although Paul looks bad perhaps he was retaliating.

Pivotal Moments in Beatles History No.118:  Yoko helps herself to one of George's digestives. 

4 February 2018
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I'm on a fan group on FB and just had someone on there lament that they've been thoroughly disillusioned by this book and it made them feel really sad and like they wanted to take a shower after reading it.  On a scale of 1 to 10, how sad is this book going to make me if I read it?  I mean, I've already had my disillusionment happen in regards to the fabs.  I've read most of the good Beatles books out there already, I know that none of them were perfect angels or anything, but I haven't gotten to this one yet.  

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ewe2
4 February 2018
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ewe2
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Hi @her_magesty it is a pretty unblinking look at the aftermath of the band. I think the sadness comes from the sheer detail of it, but I wouldn't swap that for having a clear and pretty fair account. The integrity of the book is only second to Lewisohn's work in my opinion, it is that good, and has been recognised by others. Don't pass it up just because it isn't flattering; it only by learning the twists and turns that you'll come to understand why it is such a saga.

Sadness scale 6.5/10

Information scale 11/10

edit edit: If that doesn't tip the scale for you, consider this: it's such a professional work and the difficulty of coming at the material from any other angle is so great, that it actually has a problem with being very likely the only in-depth look at the period and issues at all. It will be impossible to write any account without citing it, let alone quoting great wads of it (in many cases it's the sole source from personal interviews).

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her_magesty

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5 February 2018
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ewe2 said
Hi @her_magesty it is a pretty unblinking look at the aftermath of the band. I think the sadness comes from the sheer detail of it, but I wouldn't swap that for having a clear and pretty fair account. The integrity of the book is only second to Lewisohn's work in my opinion, it is that good, and has been recognised by others. Don't pass it up just because it isn't flattering; it only by learning the twists and turns that you'll come to understand why it is such a saga.

Sadness scale 6.5/10

Information scale 11/10

edit edit: If that doesn't tip the scale for you, consider this: it's such a professional work and the difficulty of coming at the material from any other angle is so great, that it actually has a problem with being very likely the only in-depth look at the period and issues at all. It will be impossible to write any account without citing it, let alone quoting great wads of it (in many cases it's the sole source from personal interviews).  

Thanks for the reply and rec.  I honestly am cool with all of this stuff and will add it to my "to read" list.  I find it all such a fascinating study into how ordinary human beings with extraordinary talents who got where they were because of equal parts talent and hard work can still be so naive, have feet of clay and make mistakes.  I also am of the mentality that for the music business and recording artists that came after, it offered a lot of tremendous lessons about what does work and what definitely doesn't.  

I think I'm able to read about the uglier sides of the fabs and not feel too icky about it, because I see that they were just people who had some faults like the rest of us.  My opinion from what I have read is that they still managed to come out as basically good people (with some warts of course, we all have issues) under an inhumane amount of public pressure and demand. 

If you think about it, all of us can be equal parts kind and mean, depending on our moods or caprices.  I can be downright moody and mercurial at times, but I can also be really jovial, generous, and soft-hearted.  I'm sensitive and feel empathy for others.  I cry at songs and commercials that hit a certain nerve, but I can be really impatient and get set off and become frustrated and angry by little things.  I struggle with periods of depression as well.  I have to work at keeping my less positive attributes in check, because I'm human.  The biggest difference between a normie like me and someone famous is that my financial situation is small and simple enough that my husband and I know how much money we have and we don't need to hire accountants to keep track of our spending or understand what's going on.  There's an anonymity and privacy I have that famous people forfeit.  No matter how hard they try to maintain boundaries and have a private life, they always have people placing them under a microscope and appraising their entire character based on every good or bad thing they've ever done (and it's hard for the public not to know everything they've done, because people in their orbits will eventually blab all their personal business about).  Us non-famous folk have the same faults to some degree, but we don't have the entire world examining our lives like that. 

I think people make the mistake of worshiping their favorite musicians and celebrities and placing them on a pedestal.  I've never felt inclined to do that.  My being a fan and having them as my favorite band doesn't mean I think they're gods.  In fact, what I think makes me appreciate them as artists even more is the fact that I know they were just human beings making art.  It's a testament to what human beings, clay feet and all, are actually capable of when they put their minds and hearts into something they're passionate about.  It's more inspiring to me to know they were just people who did screw up.  I don't think their accomplishments would be satisfying to admire if they were these saintly, otherworldly creatures.heartapple01

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5 July 2018
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It's crazy that it took me so long to review this book. I've had it for years and have read it multiple times, but for some weird reason I never got around to reviewing it until now. I gave it a fresh re-reading for this review and enjoyed it (and still learning some new bits) as much as I did the first time.

http://rnrchemist.blogspot.com.....-your.html

I'm sure several of you on here have read it, so let's discuss!

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9 July 2018
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Hey, just wanted to follow this up a bit:

her_magesty said

I think I'm able to read about the uglier sides of the fabs and not feel too icky about it, because I see that they were just people who had some faults like the rest of us.  My opinion from what I have read is that they still managed to come out as basically good people (with some warts of course, we all have issues) under an inhumane amount of public pressure and demand. 

Yes, agreed. The study of how history is "made", called historiography, is fascinating, and when applied to the Fabs, is very important because of the tremendous myths surrounding them; often a case of what drives the mythmaker than the subject. Sometimes you need historical 'distance', which Doggett has, where the issues you're studying aren't still swirling about in a haze of agendas and PR. And at all times you have to remember that these are real people whose glamour is as much projected upon them as their undoubted charisma.

I think people make the mistake of worshiping their favorite musicians and celebrities and placing them on a pedestal.  I've never felt inclined to do that.  My being a fan and having them as my favorite band doesn't mean I think they're gods.  In fact, what I think makes me appreciate them as artists even more is the fact that I know they were just human beings making art.  It's a testament to what human beings, clay feet and all, are actually capable of when they put their minds and hearts into something they're passionate about.  It's more inspiring to me to know they were just people who did screw up.  I don't think their accomplishments would be satisfying to admire if they were these saintly, otherworldly creatures.heartapple01  

Everyone loves the myth, and why not, it's a great myth and it's very comforting. But myths can have bad influences too: I think all the Fabs suffered from the ill-effects of having the output of their creativity wrapped around them like a suffocating sheet of such perfection they could never attain, let alone revisit. Doggett's book is a great service in myth-breaking. I don't think it's entirely objective, but it does a very good job of avoiding the kind of mess of conflicting agendas we've seen in other Beatles books.

DrBeatle said

I'm sure several of you on here have read it, so let's discuss!  

It's about time I had a re-reading, particularly after listening to an episode of Something About The Beatles, it's given high praise by a historian whose current field is Beatles histioriography. In the Doggett context (or any, really) it's worth listening to both episode 116 and episode 141 to hear how Erin Torkelson Weber reviews the field of Beatles "scholarship" (my quotes because some of it is very very far from scholarship!), and there are none higher in her estimation after Lewisohn than Doggett, and she has many fine words to say about our own @Joe too!

Erin points out how Doggett has woven several important historical narratives previously missing or downplayed: the drugs, personality changes, George and Ringo's input and attitude (which now seems amazing to us that they'd ever be discounted), the damage Klein did to all of them professionally and personally and how the fallout from being a Beatle took its course. Some of these aspects would be completely ignored by later Beatles books, in particular every single edition of Shout! it seems that Norman is doubling-down on his earlier pronouncements about George and continuing to ignore John's long-running heroin addiction. In fact Doggett will probably spoil you for reading many other Beatles books because it is such a quantum leap in methodology, range and objectivity.

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