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Philosophy
23 January 2017
5.11pm
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HMBeatlesfan
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meanmistermustard said
There are certain situations where abortion cannot be made illegal like pregnancy thru rape; to force a woman to have to bring up a child from that situation would be horrendously cruel.

Basically there are always exceptions to the rules.  

Understood, although can't she just sign up the child for adoption after he's born or something.

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23 January 2017
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Starr Shine?
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HMBeatlesfan said
I don't get why pro abortionists don't just wear a condom or use birth control pills, it would sure as hell help just as well, you can even sterilize yourself, it's pretty damn sad that people just don't notice it. 

 
They don't always work, stigma towards safe sex, in a situation where they can't, and some women feel a child will hold them back.

Sterilization is expensive and has a chance of not working.

Abortions are not anyone's favorite thing but are a consiquense of the world as it is, want less abortions?

Advocate safe sex in areas where sex education is lacking, that way less people will be in a situation where abortions feel like the only option. Also, advocate better maternity services so a women will feel more able to take care of a child.

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23 January 2017
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William Shears Campbell
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@Starr Shine? said
Well in Billy's utopia, there would be a drought.  

I thought I replied to this before, but apparently I didn't. Anyway, why would mine be a drought?

@HMBeatlesfan said
What do you guys think about abortion. For me, I think it's wrong, it's stupid that it's legal, and that women who do it should get the same sentences that they would get if they murdered their child. I would like to warn you, please be respectful here because we don't want this thread to become locked.  

I do agree, it is a life that you are taking away when aborting a fetus. If you don't want a child then practice abstinence or be smart and safe during sex. If people thought a little bit before doing, then this really wouldn't be a problem.

I also don't think that it's right that it's solely the woman's decision. The man should have a say, since he was a half in making the child. There's a lot of rights(in the US since thats what I know) that women have and men do not, and yet it is the women protesting and being pitied.

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23 January 2017
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It is because the women's body is the one with the baby inside it, if men learn how to get pregnant, then the laws would change.

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23 January 2017
5.19pm
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HMBeatlesfan said

Understood, although can't she just sign up the child for adoption after he's born or something.  

It could very well only make it worse. The situation would just be horrendous with any outcome incredibly painful to go thru.

I simply have the view that there are always exceptions to rules so there should at the very least be caveats included. To just ban all abortions wouldn't work in my opinion. 

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23 January 2017
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William Shears Campbell said

A place where the sun is always shining, the air smells like root beer, and the towels are oh so fluffy. Where the shriners and the lepers play their ukuleles all day long and anyone on the street would gladly shave your back for a nickle.  

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23 January 2017
5.27pm
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HMBeatlesfan said
I don't get why pro abortionists don't just wear a condom or use birth control pills, it would sure as hell help just as well, you can even sterilize yourself, it's pretty damn sad that people just don't notice it.  

Condoms can break, you can forgot to take your pill one day. If I was to become pregnant right now (touch wood), I wouldn't be able to cope having a baby or going through pregnancy, I'm working and studying, I amn't in any permanent relationship to speak of, let alone a stable one, and a baby would ruin everything I have planned for my life for the next 5 years at the very least.

I shouldn't be forced into motherhood because of an accident that happened, if I was forced to have a child now, I would have to give it up for adoption and knowing the pressure that the foster and adoption services are having in Ireland at the minute, I'd prefer to have an abortion than put myself through the physical and mental stress of being pregnant for nine months than having my child taken away from me. 

Being pregnant would majorly displace me in my current situation in life and I shouldn't be forced to carry an infant to term just because the state wants me to (as is the current situation in Ireland, with abortion being illegal for every circumstance except when the mother's life is in danger because of the foetus, which wasn't brought in until 2012).

I don't see the need to 'sterilise' myself, I may want children in the future and I don't see why teenage me can't have sex without having to be sterilised- permanently eradicating my opportunity to have children. It's human nature to have and/or want sex.

 

I think it's very silly for people (who seem to be mostly men by the way just a funny thing I noticed) telling a woman that she doesn't have the right to do with her body what she wants. I think women should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy (taking it from another point of view, if you found out your child was going to be born with a fatal foetal abnormality, that meant they would be stillborn or die minutes/hours after birth, would you continue on with the pregnancy? Ultimately forcing the child to have a few agonising hours of life, only for them to die? Or if your mother, sister was raped and she became pregnant, would you force her to carry her rapist's child?). It isn't a government's decision to decide what you can do with your body, it's your body, no one else's!

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23 January 2017
5.29pm
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Starr Shine? said
Sterilization is expensive and has a chance of not working.

Castration should be 100% successful, can't have kids without balls.

Starr Shine? said
Advocate safe sex in areas where sex education is lacking, that way less people will be in a situation where abortions feel like the only option. Also, advocate better maternity services so a women will feel more able to take care of a child.  

That's something I can agree on.

William Shears Campbell said
I also don't think that it's right that it's solely the woman's decision. The man should have a say, since he was a half in making the child. There's a lot of rights(in the US since thats what I know) that women have and men do not, and yet it is the women protesting and being pitied.

Anything else that the woman has the right to but not the man.

Maybe you should try posting more.

23 January 2017
5.43pm
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AppleScruffJunior said
Condoms can break, you can forgot to take your pill one day.

Wear 2 condums if you have to and make sure to eat your pills everyday.

AppleScruffJunior said
I shouldn't be forced into motherhood because of an accident that happened, if I was forced to have a child now, I would have to give it up for adoption and knowing the pressure that the foster and adoption services are having in Ireland at the minute, I'd prefer to have an abortion than put myself through the physical and mental stress of being pregnant for nine months than having my child taken away from me.

You could let your mother raise him.

AppleScruffJunior said
Being pregnant would majorly displace me in my current situation in life and I shouldn't be forced to carry an infant to term just because the state wants me to (as is the current situation in Ireland, with abortion being illegal for every circumstance except when the mother's life is in danger because of the foetus, which wasn't brought in until 2012).

If it's illegal, you don't have a choice but to hold him, so you better start popping those pills.

AppleScruffJunior said
I don't see the need to 'sterilise' myself, I may want children in the future and I don't see why teenage me can't have sex without having to be sterilised- permanently eradicating my opportunity to have children. It's human nature to have and/or want sex.

It's an option, not for all, but for some who never want to have children, something like castration could really help.

AppleScruffJunior said
I think it's very silly for people (who seem to be mostly MEN by the way just a funny thing I noticed) telling a woman that she doesn't have the right to do with her body what she wants.

Funny you say that, my mother thinks that abortion should be punishable by death.

AppleScruffJunior said
I think women should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy (taking it from another point of view, if you found out your child was going to be born with a fatal foetal abnormality, that meant they would be stillborn or die minutes/hours after birth, would you continue on with the pregnancy? Ultimately forcing the child to have a few agonising hours of life, only for them to die? Or if your mother, sister was raped and she became pregnant, would you force her to carry her rapist's child?). It isn't a government's decision to decide what you can do with your body, it's your body, no one else's!

If I knew my child was going to die as soon as it came out, I guess abortion is a good option. As for rape, that's a tricky one.

Maybe you should try posting more.

23 January 2017
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HMBeatlesfan said

AppleScruffJunior said
Condoms can break, you can forgot to take your pill one day.

Wear 2 condums if you have to and make sure to eat your pills everyday.

Oh this is a minefield, bear with me but I think this'll be my last point on the subject.

 

Two condoms increases friction, more likely to break. Never double up on condoms. If you're in a rush somewhere you might forget to take your pill in the morning, sleep over at someone's house without having gone back to your place, you've missed your pill for the day.

AppleScruffJunior said
I shouldn't be forced into motherhood because of an accident that happened, if I was forced to have a child now, I would have to give it up for adoption and knowing the pressure that the foster and adoption services are having in Ireland at the minute, I'd prefer to have an abortion than put myself through the physical and mental stress of being pregnant for nine months than having my child taken away from me.

 

You could let your mother raise him.

 

I'm not going to force my mother to raise my mistake, that's a silly idea. She's already raised 3 kids to more or less adulthood, I'm not going to force another one on her. 

AppleScruffJunior said
Being pregnant would majorly displace me in my current situation in life and I shouldn't be forced to carry an infant to term just because the state wants me to (as is the current situation in Ireland, with abortion being illegal for every circumstance except when the mother's life is in danger because of the foetus, which wasn't brought in until 2012).

If it's illegal, you don't have a choice but to hold him, so you better start popping those pills.

That's what aeroplanes are for, it isn't illegal in Great Britain and some clinics even offer discounts for women from Ireland because they know we've had to travel. Besides there's going to be a Referendum on repealing the amendment that bans abortion- and there's a very good chance, it'll be repealed and I'll be a happy girl when it does.

AppleScruffJunior said
I don't see the need to 'sterilise' myself, I may want children in the future and I don't see why teenage me can't have sex without having to be sterilised- permanently eradicating my opportunity to have children. It's human nature to have and/or want sex.

It's an option, not for all, but for some who never want to have children, something like castration could really help.

True

AppleScruffJunior said
I think it's very silly for people (who seem to be mostly MEN by the way just a funny thing I noticed) telling a woman that she doesn't have the right to do with her body what she wants.

 

Funny you say that, my mother thinks that abortion should be punishable by death.

 

There are women who are Pro-Life, it's just it seems that it's men who have the loudest voice in declaring abortion to be completely and utterly wrong, when they aren't the ones who rule women's bodies.

 

AppleScruffJunior said
I think women should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy (taking it from another point of view, if you found out your child was going to be born with a fatal foetal abnormality, that meant they would be stillborn or die minutes/hours after birth, would you continue on with the pregnancy? Ultimately forcing the child to have a few agonising hours of life, only for them to die? Or if your mother, sister was raped and she became pregnant, would you force her to carry her rapist's child?). It isn't a government's decision to decide what you can do with your body, it's your body, no one else's!

If I knew my child was going to die as soon as it came out, I guess abortion is a good option. As for rape, that's a tricky one.  

 

Good to hear, see abortion isn't entirely killing a baby, if you care to view it as that, just because of the parents' negligence. And ponder the rape question for a bit.

 

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23 January 2017
5.58pm
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Why would rape be a tricky one?

Also self castration is dangerous. Along with self abortions which would happen if abortions became illegal.

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23 January 2017
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HMBeatlesfan said

That's something I can agree on.

Starr Shine? said
Sterilization is expensive and has a chance of not working.

Castration should be 100% successful, can't have kids without balls.

Doesn't the word "should" mean there is a chance it won't be successful and therefore is not 100%? 

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23 January 2017
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AppleScruffJunior said
I'm not going to force my mother to raise my mistake, that's a silly idea. She's already raised 3 kids to more or less adulthood, I'm not going to force another one on her.

How do you know your mother would rather you have the abortion.

AppleScruffJunior said
That's what aeroplanes are for, it isn't illegal in Great Britain and some clinics even offer discounts for women from Ireland because they know we've had to travel. Besides there's going to be a Referendum on repealing the amendment that bans abortion- and there's a very good chance, it'll be repealed and I'll be a happy girl when it does.

I can relate to that. Back in the 80's, I would hop into Canada sometimes just to drink legally.

AppleScruffJunior said
There are women who are Pro-Life, it's just it seems that it's men who have the loudest voice in declaring abortion to be completely and utterly wrong, when they aren't the ones who rule women's bodies.

It's mostly Christians if you want to know the truth.

AppleScruffJunior said
Good to hear, see abortion isn't entirely killing a baby, if you care to view it as that, just because of the parents' negligence. And ponder the rape question for a bit.

If I had to pick, I'd say that the women should go the pregnancy of the rape because the child can go on to live a happy life, but doing an abortion there wouldn't be as bad as doing an abortion because you wanted to have unprotected sex but not a child.

Maybe you should try posting more.

23 January 2017
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HMBeatlesfan said

AppleScruffJunior said
I'm not going to force my mother to raise my mistake, that's a silly idea. She's already raised 3 kids to more or less adulthood, I'm not going to force another one on her.

How do you know your mother would rather you have the abortion.

She would, and has supported me in everything I wanted to do in my life. She's very Catholic but if I didn't want to have a child, she wouldn't stop me and even if she tried (she wouldn't), I'd still get on that plane.

AppleScruffJunior said
Good to hear, see abortion isn't entirely killing a baby, if you care to view it as that, just because of the parents' negligence. And ponder the rape question for a bit.

If I had to pick, I'd say that the women should go the pregnancy of the rape because the child can go on to live a happy life, but doing an abortion there wouldn't be as bad as doing an abortion because you wanted to have unprotected sex but not a child.  

What?

 

Ok you have to be trolling now. Are you saying that women want to be raped? You know, you can be a virgin, get raped, and then get pregnant the first time, right? 

 

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23 January 2017
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If men also got pregnant, would we even be having this debate?

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23 January 2017
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@Starr Shine?
Well actually it's the baby's body, residing and living off of the woman's body. Also if you were a man, would you want your wife running off to abort your kid without even asking you?

Yes there should be better sex ed, these accidents happen due to a lack of prior knowledge.

@AppleScruffJunior
Well you wouldn't be forced to be a mother, because you weren't forced to have sex(unless you were, but that's a different story). If you're not in the position to have a child, then as I said, practice abstinence or be smart and safe and also careful about sex.

Also at you saying it's mostly men against abortion, how many women for abortion have actually gone through with a pregnancy?

@HMBeatlesfan

Well women on average get less jail time than men for the same crimes. Women are favored when it comes to custody over children. Men can be forced to pay child support for a child that was conceived due to the man being raped.... And the list goes on.....

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23 January 2017
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Very heavy reading, going through the unread 20 posts on this thread. I think I might stay out of this one...

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23 January 2017
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ASJ, I am not a troll and it really pisses me off that you would call me one, what I was saying there is that the girl should carry on with it because the child can go on and live a happy life. I respect your opinion, but you have to understand that I am personally against abortion. Not to bring in any more hate, but I like to think of it as imagine if you were aborted.

Starr Shine?, There are males who have gotten pregnant, but they were born female and spent a lot of time and money to become a man.

Billy Shears, is it really possible for a man to get raped by a female, I thought the only way a man could get raped was from another man.

Maybe you should try posting more.

23 January 2017
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As soon as I posted that, I realized there have been trans males who have had children. My mistake.

Hypothetically if a woman left to abort, I wouldn't be thrilled but having a child is a partnership, if both aren't committed, then they shouldn't have a child together.

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23 January 2017
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@HMBeatlesfan said
Billy Shears, is it really possible for a man to get raped by a female, I thought the only way a man could get raped was from another man.  

Straight from Merriam Webster

Rape: unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against the will usually of a female or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconciousness, or deception

Notice how it just says "USUALLY of a female", meaning it can happen to a man too.

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