Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Improving any Beatles song
4 March 2023
2.15am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I realize my topic is blasphemy — how can you improve perfection?  There are a few small instances in Beatles songs where I think it could be improved with a more or less minor tweak. 

Or if not improved, at least offering a viable alternate version.

Example: the part in She Came In Through The Bathroom Window where Paul sings “Sundays on the phone to Mondays, Mondays on the phone to me”

The first half is G to A7 to Dm leading to a descant from C-B-A back to G for the second half.  I recommend instead of returning to G, it should go down to one half-step above G, G#, and the melody reflects a half-step key transposition up. 

I don’t know if this transposition up should remain or be resolved back down — if not resolved that would mean the song would have 3 key changes, including at the very end, since there are 3 times that phrase is sung as the last part of the chorus; but hey, why not?

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Neely

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

26 March 2023
7.53pm
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said

Example: the part in She Came In Through The Bathroom Window where Paul sings “Sundays on the phone to Mondays, Mondays on the phone to me”

The first half is G to A7 to Dm leading to a descant from C-B-A back to G for the second half.  I recommend instead of returning to G, it should go down to one half-step above G, G#, and the melody reflects a half-step key transposition up. 

I don’t know if this transposition up should remain or be resolved back down — if not resolved that would mean the song would have 3 key changes, including at the very end, since there are 3 times that phrase is sung as the last part of the chorus; but hey, why not?

  

I played through the original way and your way to myself. I disagree I like the original way. 

Time for my contribution:

the song i would improve is Because . I believe when “love is old love is new” and the french horn comes in they should keep that uplifting happy tone. Even though the majority of the song is in  Db Major it sounds minor (to me at least) because of the melody. it sounds happy when they sing that line. they should keep that feeling for the remainder of the song. it would just make it so much better

that made no sense.

The following people thank Neely for this post:

Sea Belt
26 March 2023
8.00pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside Von Bontee's mind
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5439
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Neely said

the song i would improve is Because . I believe when “love is old love is new” and the french horn comes in

  

That’s actually the Moog! No French horn. ahdn_john_08_gif

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

Rube

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

         offtopic-1.png

https://rateyourmusic.com/~Myo.....Von_Bontee

26 March 2023
8.13pm
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@vonbontee 

I am a band kid. 

now i look like a real idiot!

The following people thank Neely for this post:

vonbontee, Von Bontee
26 March 2023
9.05pm
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Neely said

Sea Belt said

Example: the part in She Came In Through The Bathroom Window where Paul sings “Sundays on the phone to Mondays, Mondays on the phone to me”

The first half is G to A7 to Dm leading to a descant from C-B-A back to G for the second half.  I recommend instead of returning to G, it should go down to one half-step above G, G#, and the melody reflects a half-step key transposition up. 

I don’t know if this transposition up should remain or be resolved back down — if not resolved that would mean the song would have 3 key changes, including at the very end, since there are 3 times that phrase is sung as the last part of the chorus; but hey, why not?

  

I played through the original way and your way to myself. I disagree I like the original way. 

Time for my contribution:

the song i would improve is Because . I believe when “love is old love is new” and the french horn comes in they should keep that uplifting happy tone. Even though the majority of the song is in  Db Major it sounds minor (to me at least) because of the melody. it sounds happy when they sing that line. they should keep that feeling for the remainder of the song. it would just make it so much better

that made no sense.

  

I like the original Bathroom Window too; I just think it would be better with that modulation. To me, a musician or band should just put out alternate versions of the same songs (sometimes they do).  On your suggestion about Because , it would require a change to some degree of the melody which they are repeating from before the “french horn” interlude to the “sky is blue” part.  I’d guess they are indeed switching from minor-to-major-back to minor — and that too would have to be changed. I’m not sure what that melody change + key change would be.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

26 March 2023
11.04pm
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said
I like the original Bathroom Window too; I just think it would be better with that modulation. To me, a musician or band should just put out alternate versions of the same songs (sometimes they do).  On your suggestion about Because , it would require a change to some degree of the melody which they are repeating from before the “french horn” interlude to the “sky is blue” part.  I’d guess they are indeed switching from minor-to-major-back to minor — and that too would have to be changed. I’m not sure what that melody change + key change would be.

i just wish it went from minor to major. no back to minor. I am pretty sure it went to the parallel major key like how While My Guitar Gently Weeps does in the “i don’t know how” part

27 March 2023
12.00am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Neely said

Sea Belt said

I like the original Bathroom Window too; I just think it would be better with that modulation. To me, a musician or band should just put out alternate versions of the same songs (sometimes they do).  On your suggestion about Because , it would require a change to some degree of the melody which they are repeating from before the “french horn” interlude to the “sky is blue” part.  I’d guess they are indeed switching from minor-to-major-back to minor — and that too would have to be changed. I’m not sure what that melody change + key change would be.

i just wish it went from minor to major. no back to minor. I am pretty sure it went to the parallel major key like how While My Guitar Gently Weeps does in the “i don’t know how” part

  

If it became major, what would the chords and notes be, I wonder…?  They’d have to be slightly different at least, but not too different.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

27 March 2023
12.03am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just one thing: I wish Paul had hit the crash cymbal with ZEST at the point after the organ interlude climaxes in “Hot as Sun” and it returns to the main melody (at ~0:56). Instead… nothing.

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Neely

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

27 March 2023
1.48am
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said
If it became major, what would the chords and notes be, I wonder…?  They’d have to be slightly different at least, but not too different.

 you usually raise the 3rd to go from minor to major. 

Cm chord is C, Eb, G

C chord is C, E, G

see, i raised the third scale degree one half step to make it major.

The slight difference i would assume is just that one half step. 

i don’t knowmccartney-shrug_01_gif

The following people thank Neely for this post:

Sea Belt
27 March 2023
1.51am
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I am back again for something I wish I could change. Hopefully I don’t make a fool of myself again.

In Lennon’s first song “Hello Little Girl ” they sing “girl” in the beginning  with 2 notes. I wish it was 3 and they went up that scale a bit more than just 2 notes.

The following people thank Neely for this post:

Sea Belt
27 March 2023
2.36am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Neely said

Sea Belt said

If it became major, what would the chords and notes be, I wonder…?  They’d have to be slightly different at least, but not too different.

 you usually raise the 3rd to go from minor to major. 

Cm chord is C, Eb, G

C chord is C, E, G

see, i raised the third scale degree one half step to make it major.

The slight difference i would assume is just that one half step. 

i don’t knowmccartney-shrug_01_gif

  

One could replicate the melody but make sure to avoid any of the minor notes, so for example the “Because the sky is blue”, the “cause” hits the minor note of C#m (=Dbm) which is E, so I guess one would sing F natural at that point?

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Neely

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

27 March 2023
2.50am
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said
One could replicate the melody but make sure to avoid any of the minor notes, so for example the “Because the sky is blue”, the “cause” hits the minor note of C#m (=Dbm) which is E, so I guess one would sing F natural at that point?  

Yeah because if you go up from E one half step that would be F. Which is the major note!

these are questions for my band director.

The following people thank Neely for this post:

Sea Belt
27 March 2023
8.37pm
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 940
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Neely said

Sea Belt said

One could replicate the melody but make sure to avoid any of the minor notes, so for example the “Because the sky is blue”, the “cause” hits the minor note of C#m (=Dbm) which is E, so I guess one would sing F natural at that point?  

Yeah because if you go up from E one half step that would be F. Which is the major note!

these are questions for my band director.

  

I’ve been playing around with singing the “Because the sky is blue” part using C#major-D#major-G#sus7-G#sus (I added the sus chord), using that F natural note and seeing how the melody modifies itself slightly to accommodate the major chords. Interesting experiment.  If they had done that or if someone does it now as a cover, I would also recommend continuing that Moog effect of French horns.

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Neely

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

28 March 2023
6.45am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3958
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

?

"I Need You by George Harrison"

28 March 2023
7.39pm
Avatar
Neely
Memphis, Tennessee
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 448
Member Since:
30 December 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Shamrock Womlbs said
?

  

??

1 April 2023
11.08pm
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 2115
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If I had to say anything about improving Beatles songs (a sacrilegious topic!) I’d say perhaps have some songs longer. But the shortness of them is part of the charm too. Less is more. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

Sea Belt, Rube

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

Most Avid John Fan 2020 and 2021: john.png john.png

14 May 2023
12.54am
Winston
St Peters Church
Members
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
6 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Timothy said
If I had to say anything about improving Beatles songs (a sacrilegious topic!) I’d say perhaps have some songs longer. But the shortness of them is part of the charm too. Less is more. 

  

One that I think it should have been definitely longer it’s Revolution 1 . More specifically, its coda shouldn’t have end so quickly IMHO. It interrupts a building rocker climax. Thankfully they learned that with the great I Want You.

As for the rest of the songs, it is very difficult to improve on any of them (they were such a masters of their craft and in the studio). But in particular I always liked more the approach of the take 1 of AHDN rather than the released LP version. It was more raw and country, with better vocal hooks from John IMO.

The following people thank Winston for this post:

Von Bontee
Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16105
Ron Nasty: 12534
Zig: 9832
50yearslate: 8759
Necko: 8041
AppleScruffJunior: 7583
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6402
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2856
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5501
Posts: 380074
Newest Members:
john1958, freeze_trax, darwinsrefutation, PaulLev, LucyInTheSkyWithHackneyDiamonds
Moderators: Joe: 5685, meanmistermustard: 24934, Ahhh Girl: 22165, Beatlebug: 18157, The Hole Got Fixed: 8410
Administrators: Joe: 5685