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Would All Things Must Pass have been better as a double instead of triple album?
21 March 2014
1.04am
Necko
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Was the Apple Jam disc necessary?

Probably not. 

 

Do I care whether the Apple Jam disc was necessary? 

No. 

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21 March 2014
3.08am
Into the Sky with Diamonds
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Von Bontee said, 

[It is amazing that a song like 'My Sweet Lord' which is a tribute to Krishna was such a big hit at that time.]

"Well, the timing was right! There was a whole lot of Jesus-freak rock songs becoming hits around 1970-1972, so a song title like "My Sweet Lord" would seem to fit right in with "Jesus Christ Superstar" and "Spirit In The Sky" and so forth. (Plus, the basic tune was already a proven success.)"

 OUCH...

While we're at it, why not compare these albums to Lennon's Imagine?

And while we're really at it, what if Lennon, McCartney and company had released albums with just one side????? (but none of us here on the forum will ever agree on what those one sides would be)

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21 March 2014
8.58pm
Zig
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To me, it's a great double album with some wonderfully delicious jams as a bonus. I know I'm in the minority here by saying I absolutely love listening to a group of fine musicians jamming.

To me there is no bad song on the album, so I guess it is a matter of personal taste.

It does kinda make me giggle however, when I hear or read people saying "he had so many songs, he had to put out a triple album". As we all know, that simply isn't true unless the other "songs" were never put on this album. I don't consider instrumentals to be songs.

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21 March 2014
9.02pm
meanmistermustard
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Zig said
To me, it's a great double album with some wonderfully delicious jams as a bonus. I know I'm in the minority here by saying I absolutely love listening to a group of fine musicians jamming.

To me there is no bad song on the album, so I guess it is a matter of personal taste.

It does kinda make me giggle however, when I hear or read people saying "he had so many songs, he had to put out a triple album". As we all know, that simply isn't true unless the other "songs" were never put on this album. I don't consider instrumentals to be songs.

How do you feel about 4 fine bored musicians jamming?

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21 March 2014
9.23pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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Zig said
To me, it's a great double album with some wonderfully delicious jams as a bonus. I know I'm in the minority here by saying I absolutely love listening to a group of fine musicians jamming.

To me there is no bad song on the album, so I guess it is a matter of personal taste.

It does kinda make me giggle however, when I hear or read people saying "he had so many songs, he had to put out a triple album". As we all know, that simply isn't true unless the other "songs" were never put on this album. I don't consider instrumentals to be songs.

I consider instrumentals to be songs for sure. What are Flying, YYZ, and Pet Sounds if they're not songs?

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21 March 2014
10.46pm
Von Bontee
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Technically, literal *songs* require singing. "Flying" qualifies as a song, but "Pet Sounds" and "YYZ" don't.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
22 March 2014
12.11am
Billy Rhythm
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meanmistermustard said

Zig said
To me, it's a great double album with some wonderfully delicious jams as a bonus. I know I'm in the minority here by saying I absolutely love listening to a group of fine musicians jamming.

To me there is no bad song on the album, so I guess it is a matter of personal taste.

It does kinda make me giggle however, when I hear or read people saying "he had so many songs, he had to put out a triple album". As we all know, that simply isn't true unless the other "songs" were never put on this album. I don't consider instrumentals to be songs.

How do you feel about 4 fine bored musicians jamming?

 

An outtake of an outtake?  ('Watching Rainbows&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10  Thanks for this, I've never heard it before, not half bad for "4 fine bored musicians jamming"...:-)

22 March 2014
3.22am
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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Von Bontee said
Technically, literal *songs* require singing. "Flying" qualifies as a song, but "Pet Sounds" and "YYZ" don't.

Then what are they?

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22 March 2014
3.39am
Ron Nasty
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IveJustSeenAFaceo said

Von Bontee said
Technically, literal *songs* require singing. "Flying" qualifies as a song, but "Pet Sounds" and "YYZ" don't.

Then what are they?

Instrumentals. a-hard-days-night-john-1

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22 March 2014
3.40am
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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Ron Nasty said

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

Von Bontee said
Technically, literal *songs* require singing. "Flying" qualifies as a song, but "Pet Sounds" and "YYZ" don't.

Then what are they?

Instrumentals. a-hard-days-night-john-1

Let's just call them all "tracks". Though I still'll probably call instrumentals songs.

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22 March 2014
9.36am
Billy Rhythm
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The kind of "instrumentals" that grace the 'All Things Must Pass' album aren't quite what 'YYZ' is, or 'Flying' for that matter.  'YYZ' is highly structured, just compare the studio version to the live versions and RUSH recreates it as an orchestra would recapture a classic piece that's written down, they obviously spent alot of time (and takes) to make it into what it is.  'Flying' follows a stucture (or pattern, if you like) as well, although much more basic than 'YYZ', with an overlying melody that's played on the Mellotron before The Beatles' voices repeat the same melody during the next "verse".  The 'All Things Must Pass' "instrumentals" don't appear to (from what I remember anyway, for I haven't listened to them in quite some time) follow any sort of structure and are pretty much what the name implies, Apple "Jams", they're more on par with the ending of 'Flying' where the Mellotron takes off and "flies", or the 'Arial Tour Instrumental' (the extended version of 'Flying&#39a-hard-days-night-george-10...:-)  

23 March 2014
2.52pm
Zig
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mmm - that post was hilarious, thank you! Fine musicians jamming poorly does not meet my criteria.

OK, it seems there is some clarification needed. Some of my favorite musical moments are when songs or live performances feature extended instrumental jams. Some of favorites appear in the film The Last Waltz (Clapton's 'Further on Up the Road', The Band's 'It Makes No Difference', and the very long 'Archival Jam' that appears in the bonus material and features our Richy on drums). So, when there are instrumentals that feature just unstructured jamming to a degree, it turns me on. The jams on ATMP are enjoyable to me. I could sit in a blues bar all night long listening to nothing but jamming.

No one else needs to like it, thank you very much. I will enjoy it enough for all of us.apple01

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24 March 2014
4.12pm
Von Bontee
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Hey, there's good jamming and bad jamming; it's up to the listener to determine which is which! The Allman Brothers were experts at it; whereas Cream (for instance) did nothing for me.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!" -- Paul McCartney
24 March 2014
4.54pm
acmac
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I'm not one of those for whom poorer work negates greater work (I'm a solo-Paul fan, after all). I don't get any enjoyment out of the jams, but whatever. They're conveniently quarantined to the third album; the STOP button is reasonably user-friendly; the songs proper constitute a stellar collection by themselves. That's all that matters to me, really.

24 March 2014
5.04pm
meanmistermustard
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Jams can be good like anything else, it would an incredibly sweeping statement to say all jams are bad. I don't mind the ones on ATMP when playing the album thru but don't ever go to them outside of that.

"I Told You Before, Get Out of My Door" from the Twickenham rehearsals i've always enjoyed since hearing it on 'Jamming With Heather' so i dont find all the jams during the Get Back sessions tedious boredom, just the large majority.

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24 March 2014
8.36pm
IveJustSeenAFaceo
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I like jams. They can be fun. That's all I really have to say.

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24 March 2014
8.59pm
Zig
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Von Bontee said
Hey, there's good jamming and bad jamming; it's up to the listener to determine which is which! The Allman Brothers were experts at it; whereas Cream (for instance) did nothing for me.

I cannot believe I did not mention them upthread. Iknow fully well that they were experts at it - I've seen them in concert too many times to count. Thanks for warming my heart, Von!

mal-evans

To answer the original thought of this thread - it's hard for me to say if it would have been better off as a double or triple album. How much better could it have sold? Seems to me it has done quite nicely thus far.

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24 March 2014
10.34pm
Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9)
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I definitely think it would of been better as a double album. Actually maybe just a normal album. Would of been such a strong album. Not a huge fan of George. The whole jam thing is just rubbish, maybe it should of been released separate?I think he kinda went crazy having creative freedom and control on an album that he over did it. Some may not like the following statements. Feel like his lyrics are just repeating the same ideas over and over. Also musically he never really explored out side of his comfort zone. Plus the weak range in vocals. Also the My Sweet Lord lawsuit/plagerism kind took the joy out of the song for me. Do love What is Life though. Another riff I would like to learn. 

24 March 2014
11.25pm
Billy Rhythm
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Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9) said
the My Sweet Lord lawsuit/plagerism kind took the joy out of the song for me.

 

The 'He's So Fine' debacle never changed my appreciation for 'My Sweet Lord' at all.  The Publisher of The Chiffons' hit was clearly gold digging and wouldn't have bothered pointing out any similarities at all if the song wasn't so financially successful.  George's response to the claims that he ripped it off were bang on, he said that "a lot of songs sound like a lot of other songs" and he's right.  It's not like 'My Sweet Lord'/'He's So Fine' is as obviously a "rip off" as 'Surfin' U.S.A.'/'Sweet Little Sixteen' is, among many others.  He also made a distinction here that's important, he said that he felt that 'My Sweet Lord' was "a great record" as opposed to being a "great song".  There's really not much to 'My Sweet Lord', or 'He's So Fine' for that matter, pretty basic musically but what made 'My Sweet Lord' so successful wasn't its chord structure or melody, it's the delivery by George and the other musicians who clearly elevated their performance with the song's strong heartfelt message.  It's like when a gospel choir gets up on their feet and puts their songsheets down and uses their hands to clap instead, there's a "feeling" to that record that's undeniable and what ultimately undoubtedly sold it, and The Chiffons' Publishers shouldn't have had any claim to that which they weren't a part of.  How many people would even know of 'He's So Fine' had it not been for George Harrison, George should get a share of their royalties too...:-)

24 March 2014
11.56pm
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Billy Rhythm said

Musketeer Gripweed (kezron9) said
the My Sweet Lord lawsuit/plagerism kind took the joy out of the song for me.

 

The 'He's So Fine' debacle never changed my appreciation for 'My Sweet Lord' at all.  The Publisher of The Chiffons' hit was clearly gold digging and wouldn't have bothered pointing out any similarities at all if the song wasn't so financially successful.  George's response to the claims that he ripped it off were bang on, he said that "a lot of songs sound like a lot of other songs" and he's right.  It's not like 'My Sweet Lord'/'He's So Fine' is as obviously a "rip off" as 'Surfin' U.S.A.'/'Sweet Little Sixteen' is, among many others.  He also made a distinction here that's important, he said that he felt that 'My Sweet Lord' was "a great record" as opposed to being a "great song".  There's really not much to 'My Sweet Lord', or 'He's So Fine' for that matter, pretty basic musically but what made 'My Sweet Lord' so successful wasn't its chord structure or melody, it's the delivery by George and the other musicians who clearly elevated their performance with the song's strong heartfelt message.  It's like when a gospel choir gets up on their feet and puts their songsheets down and uses their hands to clap instead, there's a "feeling" to that record that's undeniable and what ultimately undoubtedly sold it, and The Chiffons' Publishers shouldn't have had any claim to that which they weren't a part of.  How many people would even know of 'He's So Fine' had it not been for George Harrison, George should get a share of their royalties too...:-)

Very well put!!

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