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Yoko Ono
8 January 2019
9.21pm
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The whole discussion of the women came from your quoting a previous discussion in which Cynthia was described as a “white Englishwoman behind the scenes.”

I believe this was my description from a few years ago. I may be wrong.

I was describing the differing dynamic between the two relationships, John/Cynthia and John/Yoko.

His relationship with Cynthia displayed a sexist attitude on his part, as he expected her to play the part of the suffering woman behind the scenes, raising the child as he went off having sex and doing rock and roll things.

Yoko did her part to enlighten him on the error of his ways.

I’m not sure how pointing this out makes you think I am sexist. I think you are projecting.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

8 January 2019
9.38pm
Saltie
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You brought Cynthia into the discussion several posts back before I had even joined the forum. 

For women to be strong and speak out for what they want and what they believe doesn't mean that women want to be like Yoko Ono.  And if you don't want to be pushed then I request that you don't push others for expressing their opinions, and in doing so, interpreting accusations of sexism against you.

8 January 2019
9.45pm
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This was a new discussion that was moved from the Yoko Ono Appreciation thread. The old discussion had nothing to do with this.

You provoked me because you have an agenda, apparently. No need to bring up old discussions from years ago and then act like I am just dying to bring all the other women into it. That’s deceptive.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 January 2019
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Saltie
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Exactly. The post was moved losing the continuity of debate. Perhaps then, all posts on all threads should be deleted after three months to prevent a new poster from making an informed comment on what has gone on before.

9 January 2019
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Saltie said
Exactly. The post was moved losing the continuity of debate. Perhaps then, all posts on all threads should be deleted after three months to prevent a new poster from making an informed comment on what has gone on before.  

Which would kill the idea of a forum. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

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9 January 2019
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Timothy
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sir walter raleigh said

I’ve read the same interviews. Yet Yoko still wants more for herself. In my eyes there is no way around this being a complete garbage move on her part.   

Indeed. Imagine came out in 1971. It’s now 2019.

We’ve gone this long without a Yoko credit. I don’t see the point this serves.

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9 January 2019
4.26am
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The Hole Got Fixed said

Which would kill the idea of a forum. a-hard-days-night-paul-10  

Which is exactly what I meant by being facetious. Nobody likes being shut down with accusations of having an agenda just because they question comments made in previous posts. Whether they were made five minutes ago or five years ago is immaterial.

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Wigwam
9 January 2019
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@Timothy said

sir walter raleigh said

I’ve read the same interviews. Yet Yoko still wants more for herself. In my eyes there is no way around this being a complete garbage move on her part.   

Indeed. Imagine came out in 1971. It’s now 2019.

We’ve gone this long without a Yoko credit. I don’t see the point this serves.  

I'm still curious about this, especially since she stopped Paul from amending the credits on some songs on a live album (Tripping The Live Fantastic ?) to McCartney-Lennon. A long time ago, sure, but definitely a double standard on her part. Also, there are plenty of other songs she could probably lay claim to, such as Woman Is The N—r Of The World.

I wondered if it's a money thing, but surely she's the beneficiary of Lennon's songwriting royalties anyway. Could it be a way to extend the EU copyright, a la The Beatles Bootleg Recordings 1963, or is that issue dealt with now? I know Bowie's estate recently sneaked out some unreleased demos onto streaming sites, ahead of a proper release later this year (see footnote), so I guess it's still a thing.

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9 January 2019
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Timothy said

sir walter raleigh said

I’ve read the same interviews. Yet Yoko still wants more for herself. In my eyes there is no way around this being a complete garbage move on her part.   

Indeed. Imagine came out in 1971. It’s now 2019.

We’ve gone this long without a Yoko credit. I don’t see the point this serves.  

I think that what you, or I, think about this "garbage move" doesn't really matter, with all due respect...  How would John feel?  is the real question...  I'm thinking that he wouldn't have a problem with it...  He's always given Yoko the reins when it comes to business matters and I don't see any reason why he'd suddenly lose confidence in her now...  over the years she's proven many times that her financial savvy has served their family well...

 

Sure, watching the 'Live In New York City ' performance of the song exposes her "airband" keyboard skills and obvious lack of conventional musical prowess, but her influence and inspiration to John's "imagining" of a better world for us all can't be understated here...  War is Over, if You Want It...  John & Yoko Forever...:-) 

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9 January 2019
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Billy Rhythm said

I think that what you, or I, think about this "garbage move" doesn't really matter, with all due respect...  How would John feel?  is the real question...  I'm thinking that he wouldn't have a problem with it...  He's always given Yoko the reins when it comes to business matters and I don't see any reason why he'd suddenly lose confidence in her now...  over the years she's proven many times that her financial savvy has served their family well...

 

Sure, watching the 'Live In New York City ' performance of the song exposes her "airband" keyboard skills and obvious lack of conventional musical prowess, but her influence and inspiration to John's "imagining" of a better world for us all can't be understated here...  War is Over, if You Want It...  John & Yoko Forever...:-)   

What I think, or we think, or you think doesn't matter. Never a truer truism was 'spoken'

So let's shut down the forum......What's the point of it? Nothing...... not a sausage of what we say matters...

Or........... we could listen respectfully to each others views.....Sometimes we can take solace from a commonality of understanding and agreement amongst us, or learn something through our passionate disagreements. Don't matter though.

How John would/might feel is a consideration......but we'll never know. We don't know what Yoko is claiming yet. How far she'll go? We don't know how honest or impartial her claims might be. John's dead. He can't confirm or dispute anything she conjures up.

Some will take her claims as gospel, some will mistrust her motives and her memories

At the end of the day it will be her word against.......????? 

What we can do is look at her record before she met John.....Her record when she was with him......and the quality of her output as a solo artist after his death.

We don't know for instance if any of her solo work after John's death owes a credit to John by ways of a tape of his she's kept secretly to herself, or a scribble in one of John's jotters that she's picked up and run with.

I wouldn't trust her myself to lead me round the corner............But what I think don't matter

9 January 2019
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Joe said

@Timothy said

sir walter raleigh said

I’ve read the same interviews. Yet Yoko still wants more for herself. In my eyes there is no way around this being a complete garbage move on her part.   

Indeed. Imagine came out in 1971. It’s now 2019.

We’ve gone this long without a Yoko credit. I don’t see the point this serves.  

I'm still curious about this, especially since she stopped Paul from amending the credits on some songs on a live album (Tripping The Live Fantastic ?) to McCartney-Lennon. A long time ago, sure, but definitely a double standard on her part. Also, there are plenty of other songs she could probably lay claim to, such as Woman Is The N—r Of The World.

I wondered if it's a money thing, but surely she's the beneficiary of Lennon's songwriting royalties anyway. Could it be a way to extend the EU copyright, a la The Beatles Bootleg Recordings 1963, or is that issue dealt with now? I know Bowie's estate recently sneaked out some unreleased demos onto streaming sites, ahead of a proper release later this year (see footnote), so I guess it's still a thing.  

I forgot she criticized Paul for doing that. It does seem a bit hypocritical, although I agree with her that “McCartney/Lennon” is a bad idea.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 January 2019
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So true, what any of us thinks doesn’t matter, especially Wigwam. 😉

And especially since if we criticize sexist points of view, Salty will just say we are sexist in order to hurt our feelings because Yoko is not her kind of person.

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

9 January 2019
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Timothy
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There’s a lot more I could elaborate and speculate on, but I’ll choose not to. I think some would be triggered. a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

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9 January 2019
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Timothy said
There’s a lot more I could elaborate and speculate on, but I’ll choose not to. I think some would be triggered. a-hard-days-night-ringo-6  

I personally disagree with the sentiment that our complaints “don’t matter” as if musicians have no duty to their fans. 

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9 January 2019
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My main thing would be devoting myself to a thread such as this, going back and forth in an argument, which I’m not really interested in. So I’ll keep my powder dry and move along to other threads, for now.

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9 January 2019
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Timothy said
My main thing would be devoting myself to a thread such as this, going back and forth in an argument, which I’m not really interested in. So I’ll keep my powder dry and move along to other threads, for now.  

I think the back and forth is fun.......Or interesting...stimulating at least.

But I can see that circular arguments where neither side is really listening can frustrate too.

I like the fact that there are sections of the board where the to and fro can be accommodated and people like ET can.......err...... avoid.

 

(secretly he enjoys it too)

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13 January 2019
4.48am
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne.....ebles.html

Interesting opinion here. Someone sent me today but i see it was first published a few years back so it may appear elsewhere here.

14 January 2019
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My father in law got engaged less than a year after his wife's death. The daily mail neglected to do an article on him.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

14 January 2019
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Expert Textpert said
My father in law got engaged less than a year after his wife's death. The daily mail neglected to do an article on him.

  

A very good point......???

Did Yoko get engaged year after John's death? The Daily Mail must have missed that.

Was your father-in-law and his wife interviewed a few days before she was shot?  Was she shot?  Did your father-in-law, although not the talent in the family interview the interviewer to set out a demand there be a 50/50 split in the questions and time allotted for that interview?

Had he just released a 50/50 rock album on the back of his wife's fame? 

Were they rightly or wrongly world famous?.....Were they a controversial couple that had gone quiet for 5 years having previously  dominated newsprint around the world? 

Does your father-in-law scream, gargle and belch for a living?

If the article from Andy Peebles appeared in the Guardian, (maybe it did).....would it carry anymore more weight for you? I suspect not. So the dismissive Daily Mail point really isn't relevant......Like an 'ist or and 'ism' it's designed to 'poo poo' and shut down conversation. That's lazy.  

Is Peeble's view fiction or Hollywooded-up facts.......? You know a Lot about Yoko in particular and probably more than I do about her husband.....I'd appreciate your view.

14 January 2019
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My view is that everyone grieves differently. Yoko has spoken of how she shut herself in the bedroom and cried after John’s death. Who are we to say she didn’t grieve because she moved on with her life? If your significant other died would you never be seen enjoying yourself again?

Also, John put her in charge of the business so what is wrong with carrying on the business? Isn’t that what John asked her to do? Also, they were married. That’s her money, and during the Dakota years she made a lot of money with her business decisions.

When my father died I wore some of his clothes because we were the same size. If a person isn’t around to use his things, why not pass them on? It’s not like John was buried in a pyramid surrounded by all his worldly belongings.

People will literally find anything and turn it against Yoko.

If she went through a period of public grieving there would be people arguing that she was crying because her free ticket was gone.

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"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

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