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Yoko Ono
6 January 2019
12.23am
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sir walter raleigh
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That is why John fell in love with Yoko in the first place. Now, why is Yoko trying to take songwriting credits?!?

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

6 January 2019
1.55am
Wigwam
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I will be very, measured here.

We are all allowed an opinion. It's true this is the Yoko 'appreciation thread' and although 'Appreciation' can mean 'admiration' or 'respect'.....It can also mean 'realisation' an 'understanding' or 'awareness' Both positive and negative viewpoints are therefore possible is an 'appreciation'

Bias is ever present when discussing Yoko......She is a divisive figure.......Like 'marmite', people love her, or hate her. To put it in a more artistic way....Probably a way that John, or even Yoko herself would approve of......She is the equivalent of a 'Rorschach test'.....We see in those 'inkblots'.....what we want to see.  

The most delicate way I can put this is....I'm not a fan. That's just me. Others can love her stuff. That's how it is.....No point in trying to argue the toss. Feelings get hurt and we don't get anywhere.

I'd like to see exactly what she's claiming credits for and her justifications.........Hinting, like she's doing is corrosive. She may be the inspiration for more songs than Pattie Boyd but what precisely are the inputs she wants us to acknowledge and give her credit for?

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Saltie
6 January 2019
3.28am
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Ron Nasty
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@Wigwam said
It's true this is the Yoko 'appreciation thread' and although 'Appreciation' can mean 'admiration' or 'respect'.....It can also mean 'realisation' an 'understanding' or 'awareness' Both positive and negative viewpoints are therefore possible is an 'appreciation'

However, I remember that this thread was set up primarily because every other Yoko thread, and there are quite a few if you look - ranging from her music to her relationships and beyond, were often very hostile and full of vitriol.

Those threads often felt unreasonably negative and uncomfortable for those with a more positive view of her and so, since the negative view was being widely discussed elsewhere (with the music thread often full of dismissals of her work, as an example), this thread was created with your first meanings in mind, a place for admiration and respect, rather than any other.

It is, perhaps, the placing of this as a topic - something which obviously many would not appreciate, something I well understand and have some sympathies with - in the appreciation thread rather the plain Yoko thread that is the mistake.

It is where I would have thought to have found it previously since it was always likely to have a reaction that lent more toward the negative, therefore provoking the type of conversation this thread was set up to avoid.

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6 January 2019
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Perhaps the last several posts could be erased altogether or moved to another Yoko thread.........Where we can 'appreciate' her with some honesty.....And no one need hasten to a safe space.

If not, I'll just avoid the subject of Yoko when she makes the news....(That's easy enough)....... and talk about the other 4 Beatles.......??

6 January 2019
5.25am
Saltie
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To be honest, I really have no idea why Yoko Ono has so many threads devoted to her. Just because she was controversial and unusual does not necessarily make her better. Her association with John implies that his solo work was better and more deserving of attention than the others. This is purely a matter of opinion. I have nothing against her, and understand that she has produced some good work that many enjoy, but once John died her creative connection to him ended and she had no creative connection to the other three Beatles at all.

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Wigwam
6 January 2019
6.28am
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Maybe this whole geting credit for is more a Sean thing that a Yoko herself thing. I don't know... i saw Yoko a bit mentally ill... head in the clouds... when she gave that speech at central park a few months ago. So maybe Sean is giving her beloved mother the credit that he thinks she deserves...

"I Need You by George Harrison"

6 January 2019
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sir walter raleigh said
That is why John fell in love with Yoko in the first place. Now, why is Yoko trying to take songwriting credits?!?  

Words are part of songs.

And no, this thread was not created as a place to “appreciate” Yoko with negativity. And if it becomes that, then I’m leaving the forum, because f*ck that.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

6 January 2019
8.48am
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Ahhh Girl
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I am going to move the conversation.

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And I’m going to let the haters keep discussing and do something worthwhile.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

6 January 2019
9.42am
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Move completed. yoko-ono_01, sorry I didn't get to this move earlier.

6 January 2019
5.02pm
Saltie
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Again, I don't see why there should be an appreciation thread for Yoko Ono. Posters can attribute all manner of positive attributes to her that may or may not exist. Their views cannot be challenged. If they are challenged they are booted off to an "appropriate" thread where continuity of debate is lost. Anyone who disagrees with them is childishly called a hater. It becomes open slather to denigrate others connected to one's subject of admiration. I found the description a few posts back with reference to Cynthia Lennon as '...a white Englishwoman who remains behind the scenes...' truly appalling in its arrogance and ignorance. Perhaps she did stand up to and challenge Lennon - probably why he slapped her one. Ono's drivel about about corporations wanting single people and gays to work for them is exactly that - shite. Whether it was actually her view or whether she was being sarcastic, it needed to be seriously addressed. Instead what I found was gushing admiration for her.

I find appreciation threads for each of the Beatles in itself highly dubious for the same reasons I have given. A forum is a forum is a forum. It is the reason why they exist and if people do not agree with the opinions of others then too bad. I find it disappointing that it has become so highly controlling.

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6 January 2019
7.01pm
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I think it's nice to have a thread where Yoko hatred isn't allowed-- goodness knows there's a lot of it. :/ If people want to debate her virtues or express their dislike for her, there are other threads that are more appropriate for that, like the Wives and Girlfriends thread and the derail thread-- or this thread. If you don't like Yoko, then you don't have to participate in the Yoko Appreciation Thread.

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Love one another.

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6 January 2019
7.06pm
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sir walter raleigh
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I like Yoko. When news is posted into a thread I respond accordingly. Her claim to John’s songs was the topic of discussion and I gave my opinion. It shouldn’t be my responsibility to hold my tounge until it gets moved into the “proper thread” where Yoko fans don’t get their feelings hurt. I still think what she is doing is BS

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"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

6 January 2019
7.08pm
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a-hard-days-night-ringo-8That's fair. I apologize, I didn't think of it that way. 

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6 January 2019
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Saltie said
Again, I don't see why there should be an appreciation thread for Yoko Ono. Posters can attribute all manner of positive attributes to her that may or may not exist. Their views cannot be challenged. If they are challenged they are booted off to an "appropriate" thread where continuity of debate is lost. Anyone who disagrees with them is childishly called a hater. It becomes open slather to denigrate others connected to one's subject of admiration. I found the description a few posts back with reference to Cynthia Lennon as '...a white Englishwoman who remains behind the scenes...' truly appalling in its arrogance and ignorance. Perhaps she did stand up to and challenge Lennon - probably why he slapped her one. Ono's drivel about about corporations wanting single people and gays to work for them is exactly that - shite. Whether it was actually her view or whether she was being sarcastic, it needed to be seriously addressed. Instead what I found was gushing admiration for her.

I find appreciation threads for each of the Beatles in itself highly dubious for the same reasons I have given. A forum is a forum is a forum. It is the reason why they exist and if people do not agree with the opinions of others then too bad. I find it disappointing that it has become so highly controlling.  

Brilliantly put......To my mind absolutely fair, accurate and balanced with regard to Yoko.

 

As for your last point?.....  It's clear that however robust the discussions are allowed to get on other forums... We know all forums have to censor to a degree.....

I remind myself that this is a 'Fan forum'.......In fact, accurately (I thought until an extra member of the band was added), punned as the the, 'Fab Four'um.....There is delightful agreement here mostly. Even the old man, rabid contrarian in me can appreciate that.......and the need here to maintain higher standards of 'behaviour'....(Next sentence self-censored).

The irony for me....is it's not the threat of castigation from senior BMs that keeps me in check....It's love of hearing like minds of all ages discuss in polite terms the Beatles music and (almost as we see here) all the surrounding 'lore'..... I learn something each visit. I'd hate to be responsible for anything that diminishes the collective knowledge that might come about....if it happened that someone picks up his Grapefruit and storms off home..

......But the main thing I keep in the front of my mind is the loveliness of 'Ahhh Girl'....I don't want to give her extra work or worry. She clearly loves the Beatles and shows enormous tenderness and consideration for all the members here. She's a very rare bird..And a good egg.

In the end love conquers hate.....As it always will.

I think you and I Saltie, although in agreement here could have a salty disagreement and no damage would be done. 

As for Yoko.....If I'm not forced to find something positive to say about her here...Then no problem. I didn't know so many Yoko threads abounded. See learned something else new.

I can appreciate anything positive in the other thread and call out her manipulative nature in polite terms when I see it here.

Win win.

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6 January 2019
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Thanks, Wigwam. I appreciate you and your response.

Carry on everyone.

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6 January 2019
8.47pm
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Ron Nasty
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I've always looked at the Appreciation threads as like little Fan Club enclaves in among the more robust discussion elsewhere.

There seems to be the impression that the Yoko Appreciation thread is unique outside of those which exist for the individual Beatles.

This is not correct:

The Sexi Exis - A Klaus, Jürgen & Astrid Appreciation Thread;
Brian Epstein appreciation thread (RIP Brian);
Special Thanks – Neil Aspinall;
The Pete Best Appreciation Thread!;
Dhaily Dhannerz (Extra! Extra! Read All About It!) - The Dhani Harrison Appreciation Thread;
The Patti Boyd Appreciation Thread

 

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The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 January 2019
9.12pm
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Ahhh Girl
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The Forum is big enough to encompass a variety of opinions and thoughts (and a variety of places to put those opinions and thoughts) about the Beatles in those close to them.

Saltie, I didn't mean to stop this debate/discussion about Yoko putting out the list. I just know this is the better thread for the discussion. I should have been quicker to move the conversation to keep the discussion on track.

If the prospect of Yoko putting out this list has generated this much interest, I can't wait to see what all we have to say if/when the list is actually published.

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6 January 2019
9.19pm
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sir walter raleigh
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Ahhh Girl said

If the prospect of Yoko putting out this list has generated this much interest, I can't wait to see what all we have to say if/when the list is actually published.  

I too am eager to see what comes out. Ill have to listen to the list in order to see if I can notice a certain touch that she has. 

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"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

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6 January 2019
11.30pm
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I don’t mind Yoko because of John’s love for her. She made a big impact on his life. But I have to be honest - certain things do make me think about her sometimes. That’s just human nature. I won’t elaborate here, even though I could. At the end of the day, John’s music and his words are set in stone. No matter what is done afterwards changes that. 

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