Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Why did the Beatles stop touring and was there not extraordinary pressure put on them to continue?
7 February 2023
6.23pm
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I seem to only have vague answers to these questions.  One would think that the #1 money making machine in the entire world of the burgeoning, exploding pop music scene (exploding in large part due to the Beatles influence) suddenly ceasing their worldwide touring would be a cataclysmic event; and yet it seems strangely glossed over with vague, mealy-mouthed explanations.

“We told you, Brian, we don’t want to tour any longer.”

“Oh come on, laddies, please, do it for Daddy…”

“Nope, no can do.”

“At least tell me why…!?”

“We just decided we don’t really feel like it any longer, do you know?  We’d rather just record and take holidays in between.”

“Okay, if that’s what you want…”

As if the Beatles wasn’t an industry by then far beyond Brian Epstein’s wishes.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

7 February 2023
6.44pm
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

from Joe’s notes on Magical Mystery Tour :

It is possible that I was there more than anyone. When we did Magical Mystery Tour , for instance, I ended up directing it, even though we said that The Beatles had directed it. I was there most of the time, and all the late-night chats with the cameramen about what we were going to do tomorrow, and the editing etc, would tend to be with me rather than with the others. — Paul

Magical Mystery Tour was Paul’s idea. It was a good way to work. Paul had a great piece of paper – just a blank piece of white paper with a circle on it. The plan was: ‘We start here – and we’ve got to do something here…’ We filled it in as we went along. We rented a bus and off we went. There was some planning: John would always want a midget or two around, and we had to get an aircraft hangar to put the set in. We’d do the music, of course. They were the finest videos, and it was a lot of fun. — Ringo

McCartney’s concept for Magical Mystery Tour was to produce a television special about a group of ordinary people taking a mystery trip on a coach. The film would take in various locations in England and France, and would be mostly improvised and take advantage of the encounters they had on the road. — Joe

____________________

Were there no problems with fans?  Just a year before and for years prior, millions of fans would explode everywhere and anywhere around the world whenever they appeared in public.  Now all of a sudden they’re touring around the countryside of England and France on a bus and all that crazed fandom suddenly disappeared?  Questions…

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Rube

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

8 February 2023
1.32am
Avatar
Richard
North of England
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5344
Member Since:
6 May 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said

Were there no problems with fans?  Just a year before and for years prior, millions of fans would explode everywhere and anywhere around the world whenever they appeared in public.  Now all of a sudden they’re touring around the countryside of England and France on a bus and all that crazed fandom suddenly disappeared?  

I think the filming was mainly kept confidential, partly to avoid a rush of fans.

Magical Mystery Tour was largely filmed in a remote area at RAF West Malling, a decommissioned military airfield in Kent (as no London film studios were available on short notice). Many interior scenes, like the ballroom sequence of Your Mother Should Know , were filmed in disused aircraft hangars, while exterior scenes, such as the I Am The Walrus sequence and the impromptu race, were shot on runways and taxi aprons.

Some scenes were shot in the nearby town of West Malling, while the touring part was filmed throughout the West Country of England, including Devon and Cornwall. The Fool On The Hill section was filmed around Nice, in the south of France. The West Country is generally a relatively quiet area of England, and I expect there was some security in place for these parts of the filming anyway.

The following people thank Richard for this post:

Rube

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

uk-flag-v-small-3.png

8 February 2023
1.47am
Avatar
Richard
North of England
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5344
Member Since:
6 May 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said

I seem to only have vague answers to these questions.  One would think that the #1 money making machine in the entire world of the burgeoning, exploding pop music scene (exploding in large part due to the Beatles influence) suddenly ceasing their worldwide touring would be a cataclysmic event; and yet it seems strangely glossed over with vague, mealy-mouthed explanations.

I think the Beatles have addressed this question in interviews.

They wanted to concentrate their time on studio-recording, and they had become extremely tired of the touring, which had included some very unpleasant experiences in the Philippines in 1966:
https://www.beatlesbible.com/1…..o-england/

The following people thank Richard for this post:

Rube

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

uk-flag-v-small-3.png

8 February 2023
9.27am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Richard said

Sea Belt said

I seem to only have vague answers to these questions.  One would think that the #1 money making machine in the entire world of the burgeoning, exploding pop music scene (exploding in large part due to the Beatles influence) suddenly ceasing their worldwide touring would be a cataclysmic event; and yet it seems strangely glossed over with vague, mealy-mouthed explanations.

I think the Beatles have addressed this question in interviews.

They wanted to concentrate their time on studio-recording, and they had become extremely tired of the touring, which had included some very unpleasant experiences in the Philippines in 1966:

https://www.beatlesbible.com/1…..o-england/

  

I find it hard to believe that the Beatles would have that much say in their careers in terms of a decision as pivotal as that had been so massively successful and money-making which must by then have become a veritable industry.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 February 2023
4.44am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There was a myriad of reasons the Beatles gave up touring, which in many ways boil down to one main reason, that they were touring on a scale that the industry was chasing to catch up with.

An example, Shea Stadium 1965, audience of 55,000, Vox have come up 100watt amps for them (something most guitarists now would consider a practice amp), they don’t have foldback speakers, so can’t hear themselves, and they’re using a public address system that’s set-up to handle a commentator saying, “And stepping up to the plate now is…”

The 1966 tours had all been disasters in their own ways – Germany they thought they sounded rusty and out-of-practice; Japan there were protests over them playing the Budokan, first stuck on a boat in the harbour surrounded by troops but without Neil, Mal and Brian, before insisting they were moved to the hotel they’d booked; the Philippines were ugly as they didn’t do the bidding of Imelda Marcos; the US tour overshadowed by the out-of-context reaction to John’s comments on the waning influence of religion, along with badly organised gigs which included one where they were playing in the pouring rain with a hastily erected tarpaulin above them to try and make sure they weren’t electrocuted.

And on top of that, the album they were supposedly promoting by touring, Revolver , there wasn’t a single song from that they felt they could perform live and do it justice. The technology that was driving them forward in the studio couldn’t be carried to the stage.

While many people were probably clamouring for a 1967 tour, they weren’t contracted to any live promoters for ongoing gigs, and there were only five people involved in the decision on whether The Beatles would tour in 1967 – Brian, John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Paul had been the only one resisting giving up touring in the band, but when Paul shook his head in the back of a van taking them off a baseball field in the US and said he was done with it, Brian wasn’t going to go against the wishes of his Boys , because his management of them wasn’t about business but rather friendship, love, respect, and admiration.

Now, in the back of his mind, Brian may have been thinking, “Give the Boys a year off, and maybe they’ll be ready to go out again in ’68,” who knows? Brian didn’t make it to ’68 though, and that led to The Beatles managing themselves for a time, as the slow motion split began in the wake of his death, and they weren’t going to tour unless they wanted to, and they didn’t want to — apart from some stirrings in Paul.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Sea Belt, Sea Belt, Richard, Rube, Ahhh Girl, QuarryMan, Beatlebug

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

9 February 2023
5.07am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ron Nasty said
And on top of that, the album they were supposedly promoting by touring, Revolver , there wasn’t a single song from that they felt they could perform live and do it justice. The technology that was driving them forward in the studio couldn’t be carried to the stage.

Interesting — to me Taxman , Good Day Sunshine , Yellow Submarine , and Got To Get You Into My Life are all naturals for a concert (the classic Chicago band used to open with GTGYIML in the 70s, Peter Cetera assuming the Paul mantle).

While many people were probably clamouring for a 1967 tour, they weren’t contracted to any live promoters for ongoing gigs, and there were only five people involved in the decision on whether The Beatles would tour in 1967 – Brian, John, Paul, George, and Ringo. Paul had been the only resisting giving up touring in the band, but when Paul shook his head in the back of a van taking them off a baseball field in the US and said he was done with it, Brian wasn’t going to go against the wishes of his Boys , because his management of them wasn’t about business but rather friendship, love, respect, and admiration.

  

It still seems strange to me that there apparently hadn’t latched onto them by then the parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest superseding even Brian’s wishes, given how much of a money machine they must have become by then.  Your description of the problems they had touring raises the question, were the Beatles effectively pioneers in pop/rock world touring — unprecedented in scope before their time?

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 February 2023
5.37am
Avatar
Richard
North of England
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5344
Member Since:
6 May 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That’s an excellent summary of the factors, Ron!john-lennon-salute_gif

Sea Belt said

It still seems strange to me that there apparently hadn’t latched onto them by then the parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest superseding even Brian’s wishes, given how much of a money machine they must have become by then. 

“Parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest” are not omnipotent; they can’t just do whatever they might like to do. Specifically, they couldn’t take over the management of the Beatles without approval at least from Brian, who was essentially a very skilful and appropriate manager for the Beatles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?…..U073idc-sQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?…..azDyDz0RUw

As Ron noted, Brian’s management of the Beatles involved “friendship, love, respect, and admiration”. The Beatles had high ideals and, to the best of my knowledge, Brian respected their principles.

The following people thank Richard for this post:

Sea Belt, Ron Nasty, Rube, Ahhh Girl, Beatlebug

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

uk-flag-v-small-3.png

9 February 2023
6.27am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Richard said

“Parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest” are not omnipotent; they can’t just do whatever they might like to do. Specifically, they couldn’t take over the management of the Beatles without approval at least from Brian, who was essentially a very skilful and appropriate manager for the Beatles.

  

Well, they don’t have to be omnipotent to do what I was referring to. In the world of modern pop artists there have been many stories of them being used by such interests. It’s so remarkable that Brian could manage that — either indicating there were no parasites trying to horn in (which would be even less believable) or he managed to fend them off (still difficult to believe) — that I find it hard to believe.  But maybe the Beatles were unusually lucky in that regard.

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 February 2023
7.01am
Avatar
Richard
North of England
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5344
Member Since:
6 May 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Sea Belt said

Richard said

“Parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest” are not omnipotent; they can’t just do whatever they might like to do. Specifically, they couldn’t take over the management of the Beatles without approval at least from Brian, who was essentially a very skilful and appropriate manager for the Beatles. 

Well, they don’t have to be omnipotent to do what I was referring to. In the world of modern pop artists there have been many stories of them being used by such interests.

Wouldn’t “parasitical suckers of a conglomerate business interest” only be able to use the Beatles financially with full approval from at least Brian? Surely that was the appropriate legal position, unless you are aware of some other information regarding the Beatles’ management at that time?

Sea Belt said

It’s so remarkable that Brian could manage that — either indicating there were no parasites trying to horn in (which would be even less believable) or he managed to fend them off (still difficult to believe) — that I find it hard to believe.  But maybe the Beatles were unusually lucky in that regard. 

I appreciate that Brian may have needed to be quite resolute at times, and I think he was capable and skilful enough to do so.

I’m convinced he was remarkable, but again fundamentally wouldn’t the legalities hold sway anyway?

And in the end

The love you take is equal to the love you make

 

uk-flag-v-small-3.png

9 February 2023
7.49am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 12534
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It is known that Brian was offered huge sums for a stake in their management, especially after they broke America, when he was being offered millions to sell his contract with them, and he turned them all down.

In 1967 the Robert Stigwood Theatrical Agency, who either represented or managed groups like Cream, The Who, and The BeeGees, merged with NEMS — with the merger agreement stating that two acts would remain Brian’s exclusive responsibility, and that Stigwood would have no say — Cilla Black and The Beatles.

Of course, Stigwood later got his revenge on being shut out with the dreadful piece-of-crap movie Sgt. Pepper ‘s Lonely Hearts Club Band, starring The BeeGees, among others, and up there with Charles Manson as crimes against The Beatles.

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Richard, Sea Belt, Ahhh Girl

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

9 February 2023
8.18am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3985
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think the answer to this question is quite simple: The Beatles, in the 60’s, could do whatever they wanted. From using EMI studios only at night, to stop touring if they wanted so. They just were the big thing in music industry at that time. And their career was only a matter of them and Brian.

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

Richard, Rube, QuarryMan, Beatlebug

"I Need You by George Harrison"

9 February 2023
9.31am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Shamrock Womlbs said
I think the answer to this question is quite simple: The Beatles, in the 60’s, could do whatever they wanted. From using EMI studios only at night, to stop touring if they wanted so. They just were the big thing in music industry at that time. And their career was only a matter of them and Brian.

  

Well, apparently that’s so; but it still seems strange to me that in a world where corrupt business interests circle opportunities like vultures they would leave this gigantic juicy plum of opportunity alone (or only try a little, then just give up when a little resistance came up).

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

9 February 2023
2.26pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22281
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

When you think your mate was shot on stage in Memphis, it shakes your nerves and rattles your brain. 

That would give me the resolve to say “No More! Can’t make me! Un-uh! Goodnight Vienna!”

The following people thank Ahhh Girl for this post:

Richard, Rube
9 February 2023
6.16pm
Avatar
Sea Belt
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 986
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ahhh Girl said
When you think your mate was shot on stage in Memphis, it shakes your nerves and rattles your brain. 

That would give me the resolve to say “No More! Can’t make me! Un-uh! Goodnight Vienna!”

  

As Joe Biden would say: “Two words — Altamont”

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

14 February 2023
9.43am
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3761
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Others have already provided good answers to this, but I’d like to back up the appreciations of Brian. Without having such a loyal and competent manager, they might’ve ended up tied in a web of contracts forcing them to keep touring. 

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

Richard, Ahhh Girl, Rube, Beatlebug

I've been up on the mountain, and I've seen his wondrous grace,
I've sat there on the barstool and I've looked him in the face.
He seemed a little haggard, but it did not slow him down,
he was humming to the neon of the universal sound. 

26 February 2023
5.04am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 18183
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just popping in to note that we do have a Brian Epstein appreciation thread. brian-epstein

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

Neely, Richard, meanmistermustard, Rube

([{BRACKETS!}])
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
If you love The Beatles Bible, and you have adblock, don't forget to white-list this site!
whiteheart.png
avatar_creative_signature_Hmm.pngStarSpangledBanner.png

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16105
Ron Nasty: 12534
Zig: 9832
50yearslate: 8759
Necko: 8046
AppleScruffJunior: 7583
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6402
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2881
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5524
Posts: 380859
Newest Members:
30Ringos, Starrstruck, tmaxwell1259@gmail.com, tommytones, Glenn pittman
Moderators: Joe: 5695, meanmistermustard: 24972, Ahhh Girl: 22281, Beatlebug: 18183, The Hole Got Fixed: 8410
Administrators: Joe: 5695