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The Canonization of The Beatles
14 December 2014
3.13am
mr. Sun king coming together
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Mr. Kite said
Nothing on the CT @mr. Sun king coming together?

I honest to God saw it, made a note to comment, and then forgot. 

My response to that would be two fold; if not them (EMI), someone else; if not then; sometime soon. 

 

The CT scan would have been developed, whether by EMI or someone else, probably around the same time. The money EMI made on the Beatles would still have been made – teens still would have bought music. It’s not like preteen girls would have been buying stock. (As someone who reads far too much economics for a 17 year old, I’m thinking about this way too in depth.)

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

14 December 2014
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Mr. Kite
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The thing is, the research was done by EMI, so had it not been them how would others have figured it out? They were the specific people with that idea and had a good plan to go about it.

I’d agree that someone else could’ve invented it soon if the research was already done and public knowledge in the science world, neither of which were true. The research originated at EMI and was paid for with money The Beatles earned.

Big effect, and in the science/medical world of all places.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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14 December 2014
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mr. Sun king coming together
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However, EMI would still have earned the lion’s share of that money by virtue of being a huge record label in England (fine, the UK). Those girls buying the Beatles singles and LP’s would still be buying music – most likely EMI music – if there were no Beatles around to spend it on.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

14 December 2014
3.46am
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Mr. Kite
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mr. Sun king coming together said

However, EMI would still have earned the lion’s share of that money by virtue of being a huge record label in England (fine, the UK). Those girls buying the Beatles singles and LP’s would still be buying music – most likely EMI music – if there were no Beatles around to spend it on.

Even though that would probably be true (the other bands earning money), it was the amount of money The Beatles earned that allowed EMI to give generous amounts to research. They wouldn’t have been so easily able if not for this particular group.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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14 December 2014
3.54am
mr. Sun king coming together
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I must not be being clear – and I’m sorry for that. Let me use some numbers. 

Assuming EMI paid all their bands the same royalty rate (ignoring that I’m really quite sure they didn’t…), and The Beatles earned EMI 5M quid in a year after royalty payments… if the Beatles didn’t exist, EMI would probably kept 4M quid of that in increased sales from other bands. That money still would have been earned by EMI and spent on research.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

14 December 2014
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Mr. Kite
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In your hypothetical you’re saying The Beatles earned the 5M quid, and if they didn’t exist EMI would’ve “kept 4M quid of that.”

If they didn’t exist, there would be no “of that” to take a percentage of.

If in fact you mean they would’ve earned 4M from bands other than the Beatles, that means:
No Beatles = 4M quid total.

If you’re saying The Beatles alone earned the hypothetical amount of 5M quid, then:
Beatles + others = 9M quid.

These numbers would probably be much bigger if they were realistic, but ignoring that, in this example The Beatles more than doubled the amount EMI music earned. (In reality they did a lot more than that.) By giving that much extra money to the company it’d be a lot easier for them to spend money on the science department.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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14 December 2014
4.08am
mr. Sun king coming together
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Nononononononononono. That’s not what I mean. If the Beatles didn’t exist, the money that the people who spent it on the Beatles in real life would have spent it on different music. It’s basic economics. That money that in real life was spent on Beatles music would have been spent on different music and still get back to the same source (EMI)

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

14 December 2014
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Mr. Kite
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mr. Sun king coming together said

Nononononononononono. That’s not what I mean. If the Beatles didn’t exist, the money that the people who spent it on the Beatles in real life would have spent it on different music. It’s basic economics. That money that in real life was spent on Beatles music would have been spent on different music and still get back to the same source (EMI)

Or it would’ve possibly went to other things teens were interested in. The audience buying Beatles records wasn’t necessarily that same one buying the other music EMI was putting out, if The Beatles brought in a large amount of revenue from fans who weren’t interested in other acts belonging to EMI, that same money would not have gone to the same place.

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14 December 2014
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And I’m pretty sure my assumption is correct. Now, let’s return to the actual question from here out.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

14 December 2014
4.38am
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Ahhh Girl
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I didn’t buy music before The Beatles entered my life. I’m thinking EMI made bucket loads from Beatles sales that they wouldn’t have made otherwise.

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Mr. Kite
14 December 2014
4.43am
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mr. Sun king coming together said

And I’m pretty sure my assumption is correct. Now, let’s return to the actual question from here out.

I am addressing the topic, just because it doesn’t agree with your viewpoint doesn’t make it irrelevant. If you aren’t going to accept that there are valid points other than yours, there’s really no point in starting a discussion where all you will get is opposition.

If you’re just going to assume everything you think is right whenever someone else starts to make sense, then I don’t know what point you’re making by starting this conversation.

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14 December 2014
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Mr. Kite said

mr. Sun king coming together said

And I’m pretty sure my assumption is correct. Now, let’s return to the actual question from here out.

I am addressing the topic, just because it doesn’t agree with your viewpoint doesn’t make it irrelevant. If you aren’t going to accept that there are valid points other than yours, there’s really no point in starting a discussion where all you will get is opposition.

(my italics) I wasn’t saying you were off topic. I was saying I had taken us down a cul de sac, and as there was no way either of us were going to agree, leaving it as a disagreed upon respectfully point was the smartest path in my opinion. If you want to accuse me of that which I’ve italicized, go right ahead. I’ll just quote my disclosure from thread’s top; “This is going to be controversial – I accept that, and I’m willing to engage anyone in a good faith debate about this.”

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

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14 December 2014
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Mr. Kite
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Hey, respectful disagreement is fine and all, but dismissing a point in favor of yours:

mr. Sun king coming together said

And I’m pretty sure my assumption is correct.

isn’t really doing that is it?

I think I’ll just leave this thread alone, but whether or not EMI would’ve earned money from other sources, they did in reality earn it from The Beatles which lead to my first point.

If The Beatles weren’t around and the other Parlophone bands’ revenue lead to the CT, then I’d say they were responsible for things other than music.

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15 December 2014
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Ahhh Girl
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I decided to look up some statistics to see if I could support your assumption, mr. Sun king coming together. I’m not an economics expert nor a Beatles expert, but from what I am reading, I cannot support your assumption that EMI would have made as much money without The Beatles. They were EMI’s “cash cow”. Please see the information in these two links.

1

2

If I am not interpreting these statistics correctly, I will happily be corrected.

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15 December 2014
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mr. Sun king coming together said
Nononononononononono. That’s not what I mean. If the Beatles didn’t exist, the money that the people who spent it on the Beatles in real life would have spent it on different music. It’s basic economics. That money that in real life was spent on Beatles music would have been spent on different music and still get back to the same source (EMI)

No it’s not basic economics sorry.  They may well have substituted a different form of entertainment, or something else entirely, which may have been far far from EMI.  If I didn’t have my hundreds of Beatles CDs there are no other ones I would have bought instead.

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15 December 2014
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I thought it was a basic assumption among everyone that the market for rock music exploded in the wake of the Beatles’ unprecedented success – that the very transformation of the music business into the music INDUSTRY could be laid at their feet.

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Mr. Kite

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15 December 2014
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The predicate of sun King’s argument is that the demand for pop music (and more specifically, pop music produced by EMI) was static, meaning that if the buying public were not buying Beatles’ music, they would buy music of other artists in equal quantities.  The intuitive reaction of we Forumpudlians is that the assumptive predicate is invalid–that the Beatles created a swelling market for pop music that did not exist before their wild popularity became a massive worldwide phenomenon.  So, is there any objective evidence to support the idea that the Beatles created a new and much larger economic market?

Here is an interesting article on the subject by a professor of macroeconomics: https://diorlace3.wordpress.co…..e-economy/.

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Mr. Kite

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15 December 2014
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georgiewood said
So, is there any objective evidence to support the idea that the Beatles created a new and much larger economic market?

 Ahhh Girl provided some above.

parlance

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17 December 2014
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I stand corrected. My basic assumption was seemingly wrong (as the articles above show). In that case, what the hell do I know?

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As if it matters how a man falls down.'

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17 December 2014
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Well, you know what you don’t know – which puts you far ahead of many.

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