Log In

Please consider registering
Guest

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Min search length: 3 characters / Max search length: 84 characters

Register Ranks

Register Lost password?
sp_TopicIcon
The Beatles Breakup
RSS
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
(Offline)
101
31 May 2014 - 7.57pm

vonbontee said

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" said:

Vonbontee, your assumption that Lennon would have eventually moved on to heroin is certainly realistic.

Ono, however, was the enabler.

Another woman might have steered him straight, no?

Mm, I don't think that's necessarily the case. I mean, who's to say that it wasn't John who essentially got Yoko addicted? She wasn't even a smoker when she met him! I'd just say their mutual adventurousness was to blame.

Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be.

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the Sky
12283 Posts
(Offline)
102
31 May 2014 - 7.59pm

ahdn_paul_06 Maybe if that women was a police officer and put him in jail then they could

The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:

vonbontee

she was the sun, burning bright and brittle and,https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

Avatar
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
(Offline)
103
31 May 2014 - 10.50pm

Vonbontee said, "Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be."

Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don't have strong personalities - and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).

The following people thank Into the Sky with Diamonds for this post:

vonbontee

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
(Offline)
104
31 May 2014 - 11.39pm

Hm, I guess that sounds reasonable enough. Hey, there aren't any anecdotes about John overindulging any ANYTHING between 1975 and 1980, are there? (I haven't encountered any that I can recall; I haven't read every John Lennon bio out there, though.)

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

Avatar
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
(Offline)
105
1 June 2014 - 1.27am

 How about sloth and house-husbandry?

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
106
6 June 2014 - 5.18pm

The way I see it, yoko-ono_01led John astray, George got angry about writing, Paul was mad at Phil Spector for The Long And Winding Road, and Richard didn't care anymore.

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the Sky
12283 Posts
(Offline)
107
6 June 2014 - 5.20pm

Martha broke up the Beatles

 

Image Enlarger

Look at that diabolical stare. She is pure evil!

she was the sun, burning bright and brittle and,https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
108
6 June 2014 - 5.29pm

Martha broke up the Beatles   Image Enlarger

Look at that diabolical stare. She is pure evil!

 

@Starr Shine? Obviously, you're more of a cat person yourself.

The following people thank thisbirdhasflown for this post:

Starr Shine?

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
7065 Posts
(Offline)
109
6 June 2014 - 6.34pm

Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, "Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be."

Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don't have strong personalities - and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).

This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John's erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define "setting him straight?"

parlance

The following people thank parlance for this post:

thisbirdhasflown, Starr Shine?

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
110
6 June 2014 - 6.55pm

parlance said

Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, "Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be."

Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don't have strong personalities - and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).

This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John's erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define "setting him straight?"

parlance

Parlance has a point. People are just putting the blame on Cynthia and May. It was John's fault in the first place. Plus there's other factors besides.

The following people thank thisbirdhasflown for this post:

parlance

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
IveJustSeenAFaceo
Arrived Somewhere (But Not Here)
2828 Posts
(Offline)
111
6 June 2014 - 7.03pm

parlance said

Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, "Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be."

Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don't have strong personalities - and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).

This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John's erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define "setting him straight?"

parlance

That's not what I took it as at all. It was simply stating that they honestly didn't have as strong of a personality as John. John had a very strong personality, and I honestly agree with ISWD. 

(This signature brought to you by Spaghetti Tuesdays. Occurring on Wednesdays since 2013.)

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
112
6 June 2014 - 7.12pm

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

parlance said

Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, "Also, Cynthia couldn't get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn't either. So I don't see that any woman could've steered him straight if he didn't want to be."

Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don't have strong personalities - and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).

This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John's erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define "setting him straight?"

parlance

That's not what I took it as at all. It was simply stating that they honestly didn't have as strong of a personality as John. John had a very strong personality, and I honestly agree with ISWD.

I think that they are al strong people, but you can't put the blame on one in particular. It was John's fault he did the drugs, and others could have set him straight too. You can't put it all on Cynthia and May Pang.

The following people thank thisbirdhasflown for this post:

parlance

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
7065 Posts
(Offline)
113
6 June 2014 - 7.18pm

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

That's not what I took it as at all. 

 

How do you reconcile the comment about someone needing to "set him straight," then? There was a definite comparison being made, and the inference was that Cynthia and May felt short: they were nice enough, but they weren't enough to handle him. Which I think is unfair. I think most people would be unable/unwilling to deal with the pressures of fame, and in Cynthia's case, raising a child, while also living with someone who was reportedly abusive on top of being a drug addict.

Also, I don't associate the need to be set straight with strength.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
114
6 June 2014 - 7.27pm

parlance said

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

 

That's not what I took it as at all. 

 

How do you reconcile the comment about someone needing to "set him straight," then? There was a definite comparison being made, and the inference was that Cynthia and May felt short: they were nice enough, but they weren't enough to handle him. Which I think is unfair. I think most people would be unable/unwilling to deal with the pressures of fame, and in Cynthia's case, raising a child, while also living with someone who was reportedly abusive on top of being a drug addict.

Also, I don't associate being needed to be set straight with strength.

parlance

It's very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don't take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn't. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn't. There's more to blame than just 2 people.

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
7065 Posts
(Offline)
115
6 June 2014 - 7.31pm

thisbirdhasflown said

It's very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don't take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn't. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn't. There's more to blame than just 2 people.

I wasn't saying John was weak for being addicted. My point is there's a narrative that John was strong and it took strong people to handle him, and Cynthia and May were somehow lacking in character where Yoko wasn't. And in this narrative, what people associate with "strength" is really nothing more than abusive behavior (emotionally and physically). That's what I object to.

parlance

The following people thank parlance for this post:

thisbirdhasflown

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
2688 Posts
(Online)
116
6 June 2014 - 7.39pm

It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John. In her book, she writes, "I also hoped that I would never have to call Yoko and ask for her help because I did not have the ability to speak to John the way she did."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
7065 Posts
(Offline)
117
6 June 2014 - 7.40pm

Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John. 

Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it's unfortunate.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
118
6 June 2014 - 7.41pm

parlance said

thisbirdhasflown said

It's very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don't take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn't. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn't. There's more to blame than just 2 people.

I wasn't saying John was weak for being addicted. My point is there's a narrative that John was strong and it took strong people to handle him, and Cynthia and May were somehow lacking in character where Yoko wasn't. And in this narrative, what people associate with "strength" is really nothing more than abusive behavior (emotionally and physically). That's what I object to.

parlance

Yes, I see your point. They did lack some character. And you can't call "strength" abusive behavior. It's just that they weren't the only weak ones. There were several other weak members and Yoko fixed it. Even when you're addicted, you can still be strong with strong people, and Yoko was strong.

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Avatar
Expert Textpert
In bed.
2688 Posts
(Online)
119
6 June 2014 - 7.43pm

parlance said

Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John. 

Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it's unfortunate.

parlance

She said this at the beginning of their trip to LA, before he did anything.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

Avatar
thisbirdhasflown
Standing in the dock at Southhampton...
1762 Posts
(Offline)
120
6 June 2014 - 7.48pm

Expert Textpert said

parlance said

Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John. 

Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it's unfortunate.

parlance

She said this at the beginning of their trip to LA, before he did anything.

There is truth in this, Expert Texpert. If she was abused, she may not have been strong enough to help John because she needed help herself.

thisbirdhasflown

By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
All RSS Show Stats

Administrators:
Joe
Ellie

Moderators:
Ahhh Girl
meanmistermustard
Zig
Joe

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 12269

Silly Girl: 8618

parlance: 7065

mr. Sun king coming together: 6429

Mr. Kite: 6131

trcanberra: 5854

Ron Nasty: 5549

Necko: 5461

mithveaen: 4618

AppleScruffJunior: 4055

Newest Members:

herseydenvar2

JohnBeatle

Michael Varn

asiffk

Ram4

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 4012

Posts: 227704

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 3634

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Little Piggy Dragonguy, Ron Nasty, Expert Textpert, ewe2, limitlessundyinglove, BeatleSnut
54 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
Today: None
Upcoming: O Boogie