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The Beatles and unfulfilled potential
6 May 2015
8.12pm
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Beatlebug
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Expert Textpert said
I'm just tired of the know-it-alls throwing rotten tomatoes at Yoko. It may be the cause of me leaving the forum.

I know, just trying to keep the peace here... and the staying-on-topic! a-hard-days-night-george-9

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6 May 2015
9.23pm
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trcanberra
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Silly Girl said
Now, now, children, no fighting. Some people like Yoko and others don't. *throws bucket of water on hot coals

And for goodness' sake, spell-checker, hush. I know how to type. 

May we please stay on topic? Just 

stay-on-topic

It's okay - they are not children and this is always a hot topic - I'm sure they will manage.

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6 May 2015
9.25pm
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trcanberra
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Expert Textpert said
I'm just tired of the know-it-alls throwing rotten tomatoes at Yoko. It may be the cause of me leaving the forum.

I can appreciate your concerns - too many people try to state their opinions on this (and other) topics as facts.

I don't think Yoko is or ever was a genius, though I find some of her work interesting; but that is just my opinion. I respect the fact that your opinion differs and you feel so strongly about it.

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6 May 2015
9.30pm
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Thank you.

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trcanberra

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

7 May 2015
6.46am
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Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<
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If you insist on comparing John, Paul, George and Ringo's solo work to their Beatles work, then you're going to be disappointed. The Beatles' work was the sum of the very best each Beatle had to offer. Take them apart, take away one element, and you'll never be able to reassemble the original product.

 

It's like trying to bake a cake, but taking away the eggs. You'll still be able to bake cookies with the remaining ingredients, but you won't be able to make a cake. 

 

I think people are selling themselves short by expecting each individual Beatle to (be able to) produce the same music they made as a band. I think their solo careers illustrate what each lad added to that magical mix. Nobody is saying you should like their solo work. But asking them to do on their own what they used to do as a team, is just not fair. 

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7 May 2015
9.48pm
Wigwam
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Expert Textpert said

ewe2 said

Expert Textpert said

Atlas is an expert because he throws around words like "charlatan" to show his biases.

@Wigwam has the right to opinions you disagree with without being sneered at. Try to accept there is more than one side to the story. John was prone to look at others to be The Answer and many were clearly and verifiably not.

He didn't give an opinion. He said "she isn't" a genius and that she was a charlatan as if it were a matter of fact. I think I have the right to sneer at that attitude.

I hadn't really understood the meaning of, 'Atlas is an expert because he throws around words like "charlatan" to show his biases.' As a sentence it doesn't make sense……. 'Charlatan' is a word that proves expertise?  It denotes a bias??

It's just a word like 'mountebank', or 'quack' on the basis of a single word I don't think one can prove or denote anything…….But as a sneer the sentence passes. 

………….. You're right in that it's only my personal opinion…...and yours of me is just yours…. they should count as nothing more. 

You certainly do have the right to sneer….. And I'm old enough not to be upset by it. You have a passionate appreciation of Yoko and it must hurt when you see that others fail to see in her, what you see.

What I was saying, (and should have perhaps said better) is that I agree with the poster who argued that, The Beatles story is a complex fusion of all the people involved the chemistry of it…..the formulae unfathomable. 

Many people played parts and contributed to the whole in ways that we will never fully explain. Take wonderful contributors like Sir George Martin out of the story and it would have been different. Better or worse we can't say…. but different for sure.  The same applies to Yoko……But let's not go there now. I'm sure we will have space in other threads to put our different opinions regarding her 'genius' and whether her contribution to the mix was largely positive or negative.

Anyway ET don't go home. The forum needs your perspective….. more perhaps than it needs mine.

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7 May 2015
10.08pm
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Expert Textpert
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Thanks for the calm and reasoned response. I don't really know what I meant by that crappy sentence. I think I meant that it seemed you were feigning expertise by making a show of putting Yoko down. The authoritative way in which you bashed Yoko, with the seeming weight of your Beatles knowledge behind it, was irritating. Or something like that.

Anyway I probably can't relate to the boomers on here, so I may never understand why "first generation fans" are so viscerally against Yoko. To me she just seems like the most brilliant comedy act ever.

I'm a Gen X-er. I came of age with college radio/alternative rock in the late 80's and only recently got into Beatles so I have a different perspective. And I get pissed off when I read the Yoko comments. So don't take it personally. I also don't communicate well when I'm angry. I write crappy sentences like the one above.

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trcanberra, Wigwam

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7 May 2015
10.14pm
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Also, like John, I tend to stick up for underdogs.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

7 May 2015
11.56pm
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trcanberra
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While I agree with the sentiments expressed in the OP, I stole this from another forum:

" In just over a year (Nov 23, 1970 to Dec 1, 1971), the US got My Sweet Lord , Mother , What Is Life , Another Day , Power To The People , It Don't Come Easy, Uncle Albert , Bangla Desh, Imagine , and Happy Xmas."

Whatever your feelings about the solo careers that's a pretty impressive run of singles.

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8 May 2015
7.33am
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vectisfabber
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As a first generation fan, I do have various thoughts about Yoko - both good and bad - my sole point in this thread was to put forward what appears to me to be a fact, namely that it wasn't very long after her arrival that John ditched his artistic partnership with Paul in favour of an artistic partnership with her.  And yes, I know that it wasn't eyeball to eyeball like in the old days, but it was still there in terms of accepting critical input - until Yoko.  John seems to have been the only person who could ever say to Paul "That's rubbish - you can do better" and Paul would listen to it, and I imagine the reverse was true - until Yoko.  Lennon-McCartney speaks to my soul with a louder and more melodic voice than does Lennon-Ono.

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