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The Beatles and the 50 year copyright rule
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5 March 2014
9.37pm
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Von Bontee
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Nagra is a brand of tape-recorder, I believe.

So, which one of you Londoners is going to volunteer to break into the EMI vaults in 2017 when "Carnival Of Light" is 50 years old? :)

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One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
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5 March 2014
9.43pm
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Ron Nasty
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mmm was referring to mistype of "tape" for "trap".

The Nagra Tapes are the soundtrack recordings made for the filming.

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25 September 2014
1.12am
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meanmistermustard
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More relevant here. 

Wogblog report on the soon to be released 'The Beatles: Work In Progress - 1963' which is taking advantage of the tracks which fell outside of copyright and into public hands back in December 1963. The tracklisting is 

1. There's a Place (Take 1)
2. There's a Place (Take 2)
3. There's a Place (Take 4)
4. There's a Place (Take 10)
5. There's a Place (Take 7)
6. I Saw Her Standing There (Take 4)
7. I Saw Her Standing There (Take 5)
8. I Saw Her Standing There (Take 6)
9. There's a Place (Take 11)
10. I Saw Her Standing There (Take 10)
11. Misery (Take 2)
12. Misery (Take 4)
13. Misery (Take 6)
14. From Me To You (Take 3)
15. From Me To You (Take 4)
16. From Me To You (Take 7)
17. Thank You Girl (Take 4)
18. Thank You Girl (Take 11)
19. Thank You Girl (Take 12)
20. From Me To You (Take 8)
21. Hold Me Tight (Take 22)
22. Hold Me Tight (Take 24)
23. Hold Me Tight (Take 28)
24. Don't Bother Me (Take 10)
25. Don't Bother Me (Take 13)
26. Don't Bother Me (Take 12)
27. I Want To Hold Your Hand (Take 9)

Presumable take 9 is the 33 second dialogue to the take which cuts off as the song itself is about to begin - tho i'm sure that was issued legitimately by Apple on their website so maybe its new and complete. It's scheduled to be out on the 24th November and to retail at £6.99.

Its being issued by the same company who are releasing the live 'She Loves You'/'Twist And Shout' single, both tracks being performed for Swedish radio in October 1963.

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25 September 2014
6.54pm
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Mr. Kite
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Does the copyright rule mean Carnival Of Light must be released officially in 2017?

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25 September 2014
7.13pm
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parlance
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No, more like if someone else happened to have a recording, they could release it without fear of legal repercussions.

parlance

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12 February 2015
1.26am
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parlance
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Just want to point people's attention to the Examiner article MMM posted about bootlegish CDs that have popped up at Canadian Walmarts.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

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10 September 2015
5.58pm
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meanmistermustard
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Looks like i posted these in the wrong thread so will copy them here (not sure about thewhole moving posts thing) - they were first posted in 'Beatles Bootleg Recordings 1964', posts 30 -> 33.

Post #30

meanmistermustard said
Article from chartattack.com reporting that Universal and Sony have teamed up to stop Stargrove Entertainment in Canada taking advantage of Beatles songs entering the public domain.

In a 408-page complaint filed Tuesday with the Canadian Competition Tribunal, Stargrove claims to have been blocked by industry giants Universal and Sony. While the recordings themselves have been opened up to the public, the compositions are still subject to publishing rights which must be cleared with the title holders (publishing companies, like Casablanca and ABKCO, who are often distributed by or otherwise affiliated with the Majors). In the filing, Stargrove says that such licenses are usually granted automatically, but the publishers at once decided to stop issuing licenses on the requested material and refunded its royalty payments, artificially extending the copyright over material that should be public. 

More at the link. And worth reading.

Post #31

meanmistermustard said
Examiner report on the Stargrove v Sony/Universal Canadian copyright stramash.

I remember when the cd's came out there were reviews that the sound quality was poor so its interesting to read Stargrove's claim that they were posted by Universal Music employees in a deliberate bid to put potential customers off.

Post #32

Bongo said

meanmistermustard said
Examiner report on the Stargrove v Sony/Universal Canadian copyright stramash.

I remember when the cd's came out there were reviews that the sound quality was poor so its interesting to read Stargrove's claim that they were posted by Universal Music employees in a deliberate bid to put potential customers off.

I live in Canada, and couldn't understand why anyone would want to buy these in the first place.  Not for me anyways, since I had the original 2009 CDs.

But I guess for anyone who doesn't own Beatles records, it's a good start!

Post #33

meanmistermustard said
$5 for a Beatles CD seems like a good price to me if the quality isnt poor. How much does your regular official Canadian Beatles CD go fo? 

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10 September 2015
6.05pm
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More details and insight on the ongoing battle between Stargrove Entertainment and Universal + Sony in Canada over Stargrove releasing two Beatles albums containing material that has fallen into the public domain.

Two of the more interesting pieces of information in the Hypebot article

Thus, even though the recordings are in the public domain, suddenly Stargrove is blocked from releasing CDs with those recordings, despite the fact that CMRRA has always approved every other mechanical license request at the standard fee ($0.083 per song, per copy for songs less than 5 minutes). 

That's such a negligible account it surprised me.

And on the matter of fake reviews of the two albums

Brian Greaves, an account manager at Universal Music Canada Inc., concocted negative reviews on Walmart's website, complaining that Stargrove’s products were of poor quality. He encouraged other Universal employees to do the same and to help him with Universal’s “campaign” to discourage Anderson from distributing Stargrove’s CDs, stating that poor reviews would deter Anderson from distributing Stargrove’s products in the future. Walmart subsequently removed all the fake reviews from its site. Stargrove’s CDs had a low return rate: of the over 2000 Stargrove CDs sold, only one CD was returned.

An intriguing case.

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11 September 2015
5.35am
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Ron Nasty
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@meanmistermustard said
That's such a negligible account it surprised me.

Did you mean "amount" there? Wouldn't normally ask but it's a very different sentence if "account" was intended.

It is very interesting that this course of action hasn't been pursued in other jurisdictions. So far two "public domain" double-CDs have been released in Europe that I know of (I Saw Her Standing Her and The Beatles: 1963 - Works in Progress), neither have seemed to face any legal action along the same lines. Probably because it wouldn't get through monopoly and competition rules in Europe as they stand. I wonder if they are trying to set a precedent in International Law that Europe would have to take account of.

Make no mistake, this is an international case, and is about whether they can find a legal way to block public domain releases.

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11 September 2015
6.20am
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meanmistermustard
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Yeah it was meant to be amount. No idea where account came from.

I suppose the difference in this matter, and what has pushed Universal and Sony into action, is that its the regular commercial studio versions whereas the 'I Saw Her Standing There' and 'Works in Progress' compilations are filled with outtakes (the latter) and for 'ISHST' the 1962 BBC recordings, 10 Decca tracks (none that were included on 'Anthology 1'), rehearsals from the Cavern and some but not all of the Tony Sheridan numbers, some of which are not even the Beatles. The only two studio tracks are 'Love Me Do' and 'P.S. I Love You which are now on a ton of albums. The sales market will be pretty small. With the two Canadian album you're getting 20 proper Beatles tracks for CA$10, far less than what you'd pay for any of the official albums. The fake reviews highlight the efforts Universal went to try and put folk off, probably thinking and hoping Stargrove would roll over and not bother challenging two giants of the music industry.

Edit: Reading a review for the 'I Saw Her Standing There' album on amazon.com you find that the performance of 'Medley: Kansas City/Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!' is the incomplete recording with voice-over taken from the 'Anthology' documentary. Why not include the complete recording which surfaced a couple of years back? And can't Apple block on it that basis? I have no idea how the copyright rule works.

Track 12 is a better-quality version of "Some Other Guy," recorded September 5, 1962, followed on Track 13 by a short 59-second version of Leiber/Stoller's "Kansas City," recorded the same day, which is partially obstructed by a Beatle apparently being interviewed (possibly George).

 

Here's a strange oddity. On amazon.co.uk you can download every track from 'Please Please Me' for 79p each or the whole album for £5.49.  They are listed under the German version of the 'Please Please Me' album and were made available on the 1st July 2015. I wonder if Apple, Universal, Sony, iTunes and whoever else know and if they could even stop it. Is this another consequence of the copyright law - but then i thought that had been extended and covered material that had been officially released.

 

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13 September 2015
9.16pm
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Knight
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God I hope someone breaks into the vaults in 2017 to get that Carnival Of Light recording....

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14 September 2015
4.52am
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meanmistermustard
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As far as i understand if a recording hasnt been released then the copyright remains with the original owners and i presume the law would cover the recording for a significant period of time upon release otherwise wheres the benefit for the group/artist. May as well not bother releasing it. So nothing changes in 2017 - but i very easily could be wrong.

We need someone to do the same as with 'Revolution Take 20'.

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14 September 2015
7.32am
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Starr Shine?
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I think they are able to renew copyright. That's what Disney does.

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14 September 2015
3.42pm
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meanmistermustard
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I dont know about that, maybe its different for films or its because they've been reissued so many times. The music copyright was extended in late 2013 (i think) for all songs released in 1963 and onwards from 50 to 75 years.

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13 September 2016
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meanmistermustard
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Why is this legal if the law change covers tracks released in 1963? It includes commercial versions of tracks such as 'She Loves You', 'I Want To Hold Your Hand', 'Don't Bother Me', 'Twist And Shout' and 'Chains'.

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13 September 2016
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Leppo
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 Just guessing but perhaps because that site is connected to a UK library and although it's been a long time since I've been to a library I'm pretty sure you can borrow CDs for personal use. So they are allowing registered library members to stream/borrow tracks.

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13 September 2016
5.57pm
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meanmistermustard
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Leppo (aka fabbeatlebooks) said
 Just guessing but perhaps because that site is connected to a UK library and although it's been a long time since I've been to a library I'm pretty sure you can borrow CDs for personal use. So they are allowing registered library members to stream/borrow tracks.  

I get the streaming and downloading, i meant why are the tracks available since they should be bound by copyright laws? It's not an official release and sanctioned by Apple.

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13 September 2016
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William Shears Campbell
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Things I Wanna Do Before I Die:

......

#. Listen to "Carnival Of Light"

.......

 

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15 September 2016
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I sure wish copyright didn't exist.

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Starr Shine?
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That would mean the Beatles wouldn't make money and wouldn't make as much music.

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