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13 February 2016
10.18am
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Beatlebug
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^^ Pic 1: too cool 4 u 

Pic 2: Dangerous eyes 

Pic 3: Clean handsome lad 

Pic 4: Softie 

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Zig

Listen to the music playing in your head
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8 October 2016
5.41pm
Ubu
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Ey up. Anyone know how to purchase a Stu Sutcliffe print?

7 January 2017
2.45pm
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I'm reading 'in my life John lennon remembered' and read something about Stu's sister owning an unfinished novel/book by Stu (presumably) about John... and would like to know if anybody here knows something about that.

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SgtPeppersBulldog

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6 February 2017
7.03am
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Joe
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Here's something that puzzles me. From Mark Lewisohn's Tune In (p1155 in the extended edition):

They [The Beatles] had no idea that Stu had suffered a violent convulsive fit at noon this same day, that it lasted thirty-five minutes, that he slipped into a coma, that Nielsa Kirchherr summoned Astrid home from work, and that, at 4.30pm, in an ambulance speeding him to hospital, Stuart died in his fiancée's arms.

Does anyone else think the timing is a bit odd? Stu had a fit that began at roughly midday, ended before 1pm, and he fell into a coma. Astrid came home at her mother's notification, and an ambulance took Astrid and Stu to hospital... around three hours later?

"Oh hi Astrid, it's your mum. Yeah, I think Stuart's in a bit of a bad way. He had a fit earlier on, which lasted half an hour, and now I can't wake him up. Yeah, it's probably best if you come home. OK love, we'll wait for you. Bye!"

If you'd just witnessed someone convulsing and afterwards not responding, why on earth would you not phone an ambulance immediately? Did she really wait for Astrid before calling for help? I'm trying to wrap my head around it because it seems crazy.

(Also according to Lewisohn, the haemorrhage was so great that he would have been a husk of a man had he lived, so I'm trying to avoid thinking that he could have been saved by quicker reactions. But still...)

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6 February 2017
7.36am
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Ron Nasty
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Since Stuart's condition was ongoing, @Joe, it may well have been that the seriousness of this attack was not immediately realised and reacted to.

My mother has epilepsy and I can kind of relate to how the seriousness of an episode may not be immediately obvious. What might seem like the usual after effects to begin with can take time to reveal themselves as more serious.

I witnessed my mother have hundreds of fits, and it was usual for her to be sleepy and largely unresponsive for some hours afterward. I learnt that that was normal, and to not worry. It can take time to recognise when something is different.

It is likely Stuart would have slept after an attack, and that would have been viewed as normal. What's missing is the time that Nielsa Kirchherr started to worry about being unable to get a response from Stuart and called Astrid.

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The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

6 February 2017
7.57am
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Joe
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Thanks for those thoughts, @Ron Nasty. I don't have any particular direct experience of this sort of thing (I know a couple of people with epilepsy but haven't witnessed any fits).

I'd always pictured it as an emergency dash to the hospital, with Stuart dying in Astrid's arms during the journey, very soon after the attack. I had no idea it was much later. Once again, I'm so grateful to ML for digging out tiny details which make you see things in a different light.

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Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

Or buy my paperback/ebook! Riding So High – The Beatles and Drugs

9 February 2017
11.21am
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Zig
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Joe said
...I'm so grateful to ML for digging out tiny details which make you see things in a different light.  

This is why I have a bookshelf full of Beatles books, magazines, DVDs, etc... Mining for and finding those tiny details is a rush for any serious Beatles fan.

It's also cool to be on this site to get other's perspectives on things I've read. I read Tune In twice and remember reading that same passage Joe quoted above. After reading Joe and RN's posts, I now have a much different - almost eerie - feeling for that event. 

Ron Nasty said
What's missing is the time that Nielsa Kirchherr started to worry about being unable to get a response from Stuart and called Astrid.  

That's where things get my skin crawling. Assuming this to be the timeline of events, imagine Nielsa's panic when she realized something was way off. Did Stu slip in and out of the coma prior to dying in Astrid's arms? I'm hoping not. But if so, how cognizant or intelligible could he have been? Makes me shudder no matter how much or little he suffered at the end. Poor Stu.

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19 May 2017
5.03pm
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Ron Nasty
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Given Paul's criticism of Stu's ability on bass over the years, I was rather surprised to come across this comment made during a 1964 interview with Beat International:

Not that I'm suggesting that every bass player should learn on an ordinary guitar.  Stuart Sutcliffe certainly didn't, and he was a great bass man.

It does make you wonder if Stuart was a better player than is often made out.

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"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

22 May 2017
4.02am
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Ron Nasty
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Klaus Voorman:

Stu was a really good rock and roll bass player, a very basic bass player, completely different.  He was, at the time, my favourite bass player…and he had that cool look.

Klaus in a 2006 interview:

The Beatles were best when Stuart was still in the band. To me it had more balls, it was even more rock and roll when Stuart was playing the bass and Paul was playing piano or another guitar. The band was, somehow, as a rock and roll band, more complete.

Rick Hardy, a member of The Jets, said this:

Stu never turned his back on stage.  He certainly played to the audience and he certainly played bass.  If you have someone who can't play the instrument properly, you have no bass sound.  There were two rhythm guitarists with the Beatles and if one of them couldn't play, you wouldn't have noticed it - but it's different with a bass guitar.  I was there and I can say quite definitely Stuart never did a show in which he wasn't facing the audience.

Pete Best, in a radio interview, commented:

I've read so many people putting him down for his bass playing.  I'd like to set that one straight.  His bass playing was a lot better than people give him credit for.  He knew what his limits were… what he did was accept that and he gave 200%.  He was the smallest Beatle with the biggest heart.

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"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

22 May 2017
6.44am
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Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
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I wonder if Paul had other feelings towards Stu that clouded hso judgment?

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22 May 2017
10.19am
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Evangeline
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Starr Shine? said
I wonder if Paul had other feelings towards Stu that clouded hso judgment?  

Stu took Paul's place as John's toppermost friend. So jealousy mostly. (And Stu got Astrid, but I don't know if that was really a big deal to Paul.)

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