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20 March 2014
2.14pm
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Billy Rhythm
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Von Bontee said
The Love You Make alleges it was teddy boys.

  

Yeah, this is the first time that I've ever heard of John allegedly being responsible for Stu's death.  Most of the stories that I've read over the years haven't strayed too far from the "being jumped by Teddy Boys " story.  Supposedly all the band members were jumped late one night, except that most of them got away while Stu got left behind and kicked to the head.  I believe that part of the Teddy Boy "look" was to wear steel-tipped boots to inflict extra damage to victims of their angst and this was likely the cause of Stuart's fatal head wound.  The Teddy Boy incident also describes that John went back for Stu after the attack ended and was so horrified by the sight of him that he brought him to his Mother 's house to leave him on the doorstep after ringing on the doorbell and running off!  It's possible that Stuart's Sister feels that John's responsible because of this happening, or blames him for not coming to his defence and leaving him behind, who knows.

Linde said 

It's also very easy to say anything about John, since he's not able to defend himself anymore. Looks as if someone just needed money.

 

I have a hard time taking this seriously because of this as well, had Pauline Sutcliffe witnessed this "sustained, unprovoked attack" by John first-hand, why not go to the authorities afterwards?  Why wait until after his (John's) death before coming out with this information?  Answer?  BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE...:-) 

16 April 2014
4.37pm
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imtheTaxman
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No. Stu was kicked in the head by rowdy fans or teddy boys outside the Cavern Club (?) and died of a brain hemorrhage a couple years later in Germany, I think. I read this in a biography of John Lennon I checked out from the library for a school project. 

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31 August 2014
9.30pm
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Ahhh Girl
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I learned today that Stuart's funeral and burial occurred on 19 April. That is my birthday. The Beatles did not attend his funeral in Merseyside, England. They were playing at the Star-Club in Hamburg.

He died of a cerebral hemorrhage (bleeding in the brain). Of the two causes listed in Joe's link above as the most likely reason for the hemorrhage, one of them is what happened to my father.

From the article at Joe's link above

ANEURYSMS are weak spots in arteries. They are present from birth and gradually enlarge. They most frequently rupture in patients over 30. Although there may be some warning headaches, most often there is simply a single, explosive headache. Half of aneurysm patients die immediately. The location of most aneurysms makes bleeding into the ventricle very possible. An aneurysm is certainly a strong possibility in Stu's case.

In summary, the two causes of death that best fit the scenario are Aneurysm and AVM, both congenital and unrelated to any blow to the head. None of the causes of death from a blow to the head fit the time frames or history we have on Stu. More importantly to this discussion, John was not with Stu in the four months prior to his death. No head trauma causes cerebral bleeding and death that long after injury. Therefore, John could not have been responsible for Stu's death.

Don't think that the word "congenital" doesn't scare the daylights out of me.

My dad was 46 when his aneurysm happened. I am 46.

His aneurysm happened on Labor Day. Tomorrow is Labor Day.

27 January 2015
5.51pm
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i've that story only in Goldman book, didn't about pauline Sutcliffe but i can't believe it's true. doggett writes that the cause was a fall from Atsrid home's stairs

30 January 2015
8.02pm
vivelareine
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No. John hit Stuart over the head with his guitar. 

How do I know? Because my father in law, John Twist, was at art school with John Lennon and also played guitar, with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes for a while. He was there at the time AND SAW JOHN DO IT.

John Twist thought it was because Stuart was gay and may have come on to John Lennon , who was utterly disgusted. Stuart didn't go to the police because it would have come out in court about his being gay which was illegal then. Stuart had no idea he was so badly injured. 

Anyone believe in karma?

31 January 2015
4.03pm
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Zig
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Hello @vivelareine . Welcome to the Forum.

Did anyone else see this that can corroborate this story? I'm not questioning your or Mr. Twist's integrity, and can't speak for others here, but this is the first I've read about this particular origin of Stu's injuries. This is also the first time I've read the possibility that Stu was homosexual.

As for the Karma bit, I sincerely hope you are not suggesting John was murdered because he may or may not have hit Stu over the head with a guitar. If karma is real, I think it would have made John suffer in life with what he did and not release him in death. 

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

31 January 2015
4.07pm
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Starr Shine?
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ahdn_paul_06 Well John did suffer in life for a while.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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31 January 2015
4.14pm
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Zig
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No doubt about it, @Starr Shine? . Who hasn't in some way?

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31 January 2015
4.56pm
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Wouldn't Stu have been bisexual, not gay, since he was Astrid's boyfriend? Or maybe he just had "gay leanings."

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31 January 2015
5.18pm
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Starr Shine?
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^ He could of also been Pansexual. 

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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31 January 2015
5.19pm
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Does that mean he was into pans, pots, and kitchen utensils?

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31 January 2015
6.39pm
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Starr Shine?
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Expert Textpert said
Does that mean he was into pans, pots, and kitchen utensils?

Nope: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki.....nsexuality

 

*the more you know*

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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31 January 2015
9.22pm
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Zig
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Expert Textpert said
Wouldn't Stu have been bisexual, not gay, since he was Astrid's boyfriend? Or maybe he just had "gay leanings."

I was thinking the same thing.

Expert Textpert said
Does that mean he was into pans, pots, and kitchen utensils?

An early nominee for 2015 Funniest Post of the Year. a-hard-days-night-john-6

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31 January 2015
9.59pm
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Ron Nasty said
Pauline Sutcliffe is firmly of the opinion that John was the cause of Stuart's death [...]

There's an article on Steve Hoffman's forum from 2003 that talks about her opinion.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/fifth-beatle-died-after-fight-with-lennon-sister-claims.18242/

However, her opinion is disputed, and Rockmine has a "virtual post-mortem" based on the known facts and evidence.

http://www.rockmine.com/Reaper/StuPM.html

Thanks for citing sources @Ron Nasty; and for showing us both sides of the coin. That’s what we all (I include myself) should do in threads like this one. Just expressing our opinions or saying “I heard somewhere…” isn’t enough.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

10 April 2015
10.09pm
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MOCKSWELL
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 Oh welllll... yknow... we knew that John and Stu had a very physical relationship. Just real scrappers, like Teddy boys I guess, tho Stu was no match for John. John was absolutely plastered a fair amount around this time, just a hard drinkin' rocker, no idea that he would ever be famous. So the story went around that he had kicked Stu a couple times.... and MAY have been 'partly responsible' for his later death. This would have tormented Lennon like hellfire for the rest of his life, so probably best to just let it be.

 I think it happened, real and mock fights happened, but a cereberal haemorrhage can happen for a variety of reasons, so there's never going to be an answer to this. They weren't gay, but John was very phsically aggressive when he was under the influence, everyone knew that. Not really an issue to poke away at or joke about, because Stu was a Beatle and should have been protected from... other Beatles... *(?)

22 October 2015
3.58pm
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sigh butterfly
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This site contains some cool pictures of Stu and pals, some of which I've seen before but not organized quite like this. Check out the Silver Beatles matching footwear in the third picture - too cool!

http://mashable.com/2015/10/22.....5wUTX3ukqi

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22 October 2015
4.07pm
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Zig
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Thanks - I've always loved those pics of them in Hamburg.

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

13 February 2016
9.42am
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Ahhh Girl
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Stuart.jpgImage Enlarger

What a handsome young man you were, Stuart. I wish this world had had you longer.

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13 February 2016
9.58am
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Beatlebug
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^^Indeed. And talented too, so I hear... though not as a bassist per se a-hard-days-night-john-6 

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13 February 2016
10.14am
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Zig
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What a great pic AG! Thanks.

He has so many different looks doesn't he? I've never seen so many pictures of one person in which he looks so different.

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His features are stunning. A truly handsome man (he said, incredibly comfortable with his own masculinity).

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