Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

2   +   6   =  
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Brian Epstein appreciation thread (RIP Brian)
29 August 2019
7.38pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 17260
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
101sp_Permalink sp_Print

TheWalrusWasBrian said

eppy2.jpgImage Enlarger

This picture is terribly cute. What a nice tie, too... brian-epstein

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

50yearslate, TheWalrusWasBrian, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

~ Ram On ~
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
ScotsIrishFlag-1.jpeg Blueberries1.png Vietnam Heritage and Freedom Flag
StarSpangledBanner.png

29 August 2019
7.55pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4440
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
102sp_Permalink sp_Print

Yep, love Eppy growing his hair.

And the Four Tops' "On Top" album! Wonder if that was for one of the boys or himself?

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

Beatlebug, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions, Marvin Gaye. PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

                      Von-Bontee-2017.png

https://rateyourmusic.com/~Myo.....Von_Bontee

28 September 2019
3.40pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 19396
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I hadn't heard of the Liverbirds before. They turned down Brian as their manager. Wonder what would have happened if they had teamed up with him.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.u.....d-16948881

The John Lennon bit from the article

Mary - now Mary Dostal, 73, who settled in Hamburg, said: “Bob Wooler from the Cavern introduced us to John and Paul McCartney .

“They’d just come off stage after a lunchtime session at the Cavern. He took us in and said ‘This is Liverpool’s first all female band.

“John looked at us and said ‘girls don’t play guitars’!

“Of course it made us more determined and you never knew with John, he had that strange sense of humour. Maybe it was his way of encouraging us!”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?.....essM3zzcrY

28 September 2019
6.25pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 8592
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
104sp_Permalink sp_Print

How rude of him a-hard-days-night-john-7

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

2018:IMG_3980.PNG 2019: 00A040E0-7F67-413C-9CAB-AB4C27EB864A.png

28 September 2019
6.59pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 17260
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I appreciate that it made them more determined. Just so. You've gotta be a bit of a rebel to play rock and roll! john-lennon-salute_gif

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

ScarlettFieldsForever, 50yearslate, Ahhh Girl, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

~ Ram On ~
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
ScotsIrishFlag-1.jpeg Blueberries1.png Vietnam Heritage and Freedom Flag
StarSpangledBanner.png

5 November 2019
10.26am
strawberry.pi
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 1
Member Since:
5 November 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
106sp_Permalink sp_Print

I recently discovered this Crowdfunder campaign:

https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/.....ue-project 

"There are over 70 statues of The Beatles around the world, but none of their iconic manager, without whom the band would never have made such a phenomenal and ongoing impact. We aim to rectify that. So our vision is to realise a world first: a statue of Brian, The Fifth Beatle, and one of the world's great creative individuals.

Brian united the world in the most powerfully sustaining way, not just through The Fab 4, but through his nurturing of the wider music scene in Liverpool at the time. Artists such as Gerry and the Pacemakers, Cilla Black, Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas, The Moody Blues and The Chants were all part of his roster of incredible talent. 

He gave pride to his community and his impact on the world is overwhelmingly positive. Yet his beautiful smiling face is unknown to so many around the world - this is why he needs a statue. His legacy is also largely unseen, even though his impact on popular culture is incalculable. As Andrew Lancel says in our campaign video, Brian had a hand in changing the world. This is why he needs this memorial. He needs to stay amongst us."

Pondering how to get the word out more, the Beatles Bible came to my mind. The project creators had their deadline extended to November 21st, but they still need to raise £50,000 of the funds they need, and I thought maybe y'all could help.

Thank you for your time!

~ a random beatleperson

5 November 2019
12.01pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 19396
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

^^a-hard-days-night-ringo-8

parlance said
BBC article with video:

Stars sing for statue of Beatles manager Brian Epstein

Pop and soap stars joined forces with politicians to record a single in Liverpool aiming at raising money for a statue in the city to the man credited with discovering the Beatles.

Brian Epstein, who died in 1967 aged 32, managed the Fab Four and persuaded record label EMI to sign them up.

Stars at the city's Parr Street Studios included OMD's Andy McCluskey, Coronation Street's Craig Charles and former Liverpool FC manager Roy Evans.

parlance

  

parlance said
Examiner article on a Liverpool concert on Feb. 28 to raise money for the statue.

parlance

  

^^ From page 3 of this thread. 

Ahhh Girl said https://www.beatlesbible.com/f.....s/#p283382
https://www.beatlesbible.com/f.....e-3/143117

https://www.google.com/amp/www.....453358.amp

I don't know how far the campaign has gotten.

  

Ron Nasty followed with
It seems the campaign failed as nothing has been heard, and the "statue4eppy" website is gone.

Are these all related?

5 November 2019
12.15pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 19396
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
108sp_Permalink sp_Print

The Twitter account for Statue4Eppy hasn't had any posts since 2015. The statue4eppy.info and statueforeppy.com sites are still down. From what I can uncover the "launch night" for the recording done to raise money for the statue hasn't happened https://www.ragtagmisfits.com/.....t-studios/

I wonder if there has been any coordination among the people trying to raise the funding for this statue.

5 November 2019
1.36pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 8592
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
109sp_Permalink sp_Print

We could plant a tree and hope that the beetles let it alone

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian)

- - -

2018:IMG_3980.PNG 2019: 00A040E0-7F67-413C-9CAB-AB4C27EB864A.png

5 November 2019
3.57pm
Avatar
AppleScruffJunior
Sitting here doing nothing but procrastinating...
Apple rooftop
Reviewers

Members
Forum Posts: 7212
Member Since:
18 March 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
110sp_Permalink sp_Print

50yearslate said
We could plant a tree and hope that the beetles let it alone

  

Lads wait for this one, it's a beauty...

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

...

We could plant a tree and hope the beetles let it be! It rhymes and everything!

...

...

...

someonehelpmepleaseohwaitpleasepleasehelpme

The following people thank AppleScruffJunior for this post:

50yearslate, Getbackintheussr, Beatlebug, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

                 ***

Make Love, Not Wardrobes!

                ***

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me"- George Harrison

26 July 2020
4.20am
Avatar
Cousin Mark
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
9 June 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
111sp_Permalink sp_Print

Since this is a "Brian Epstein Appreciation" page, I'd like to focus in on what Brian DID for the Beatles instead of what he MIGHT HAVE done. Your comments, opinions and corrections would be appreciated.

In the contract the Beatles signed with Brian, there is a clause that states that Brian, as manager, would make decisions on “all matters concerning clothes, make-up and the presentation and construction of the Artists’ acts and also on all music to be performed.”

In my opinion, this was probably the most important clause in the contract after the clause that states that Brian would manage their bookings. Many people think that most of Brian's decisions about the Beatles' stage act was limited to some of his early decisions in their career as a group. For example, putting them into suits. That was not his first decision. His rule that the group would no longer eat, drink, smoke on stage, or have conversations with audience members while performing. probably came first. I think the suits came later. There are photos of the Beatles still in their leathers after they signed with Brian, but before Ringo joined the group. We really don't see them in suits until they secured a contract with EMI/Parlophone. Probably at the same time, Brian instructed the Beatles to take bows after every song. All of this, of course, was meant to make the group appear professional as well as to make them acceptable to a broader audience, as well as the impresarios they would encounter on their way up.

As for the suits themselves, Brian must have quickly got the band to agree to wearing suits as their fame and popularity began to grow. From existing photos, we can see that the original suits they wore were not fashionable at all; plain black suits, nothing special. Conformity was important as they all wore the same style and color. It wasn't until later that Brian chose (with the band's input) more fashionable costumes for their stage act, for example their collarless suits. In later months and years, each major tour brought new stage costumes. I believe the suits chosen must have been a joint decision between Brian and the band, but ultimately, Brian had the final approval as it was in their contract.

Music chosen for live performances became Brian's choice as the group climbed up the ladder. As they were still playing long sets in clubs at first, the Beatles probably chose the songs. But once the band began going on tour with major acts (Roy Orbison, Helen Shapiro, etc.), Brian chose the songs for their 20 minute sets. Some people believe, as I do, that Brian compiled the list of songs for their Decca audition. I think Brian had an image of what kind of band they would become... but, of course, they did not, especially after George Martin signed and produced the band. As for the Decca setlist, it reflected a poor choice on Brian's part, in my opinion. If it was meant to demonstrate the group's versatility, it succeeded. But it certainly didn't show the energy the Beatles created with their live shows. It seemed as though Brian wanted to promote Paul as a "cabaret" style singer It's interesting to note that George sang lead quite often on the Decca tape.

As their career blossomed, Brian surely created the setlists for their live television performances, i.e. the Royal Command, Ed Sullivan. In both cases, Brian made sure that Paul sang "Till There Was You ," a song that might please the older audiences. Their setlists on the group's major tours were created by Brian. John once complained about having to do night after night gigs playing the same "lousy" songs.

As for their stage act itself, it was very strictly "choreographed" by Brian. From what songs to play, in what order, who would do the introductions, who stood where, the bows, etc. - All decisions made by Brian. How about the microphones? Only two downstage mics for the vocals? It certainly made sense in the band's early, pre-Brain days. Why spend money on a third mic when two would do the job? I believe Brian maintained the status quo as that was how he saw them his first time at the Cavern and he liked the visual image. During their '65 and '66 U.S. tours, John and Paul shared the same mic on songs like "Baby's In Black " and "Ticket To Ride ". Why? George didn't contribute anything vocally, so a second mic was available for Paul separately from John. I think it was the visual image of John and Paul, head-to-head, singing harmony that appealed to Brian.

Having written all that, imagine if Brian had no contractual control over their stage performances:

  1. Would the Beatles have created their own setlists? Would that have led to arguments within the group? Would the setlists have radically changed?
  2. Would their stage attire be different? Would uniformity be tossed aside for individual outfits (Think: Rooftop concert)?
  3. Would George have had a more prominent position as part of the front line, as opposed to his accepting his position as "role player" or junior member of the band?
  4. What if the Beatles had chosen their own setlist for the Decca audition? And what if that audition would have secured them a contract with Decca? What then?

I have other thoughts on this post, but I wanted to pay tribute to Brian Epstein by pointing out the role he played in giving us the Beatles as we came to know them. 

The following people thank Cousin Mark for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

26 July 2020
8.47am
Avatar
Tony Japanese
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 632
Member Since:
11 September 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
112sp_Permalink sp_Print

I'm happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable than I am, but I don't agree with your suggestion that Brian was somehow entirely responsible for the Beatles stage-act from 1962 onwards.

Did he ask them not to swear, eat on stage and generally improve their attitude?  Yes. Did he persuade them to wear suits? Yes, that's pretty well documented. Brian was clever enough to understand the band wouldn't get to the next step - TV, radio, record contracts - if they continued to dress in leather, but I'm not sure he picked the suits out for them. If I remember correctly, he took the Beatles to one of his tailors and they picked out the materials/styles they wanted.

Did he choose what songs they'd play at their Decca audition? Possibly, but Mark Lewisohn dismisses this as nonsense. I think it's just a convenient excuse to explain why the band failed the audition.

Did he choose what songs they'd play at the Royal Command Performance or the Ed Sullivan Show? To be honest, I've not read anything to suggest he did. And I think the band were capable of choosing songs to suit the mood without needing Brian's instructions. I've not read anything to say Brian was responsible for choreographing their act right down to where they stood, what they said, and what they played.

There may have been a clause in the contract giving Brian the right to advise the band about what songs to play, but it doesn't necessarily mean he did. After all, didn't John once tell Brian to 'stick to your fucking percentages and we'll concentrate on the music'?

27 July 2020
6.39am
Avatar
Starr Shine?
Waiting in the sky
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 15907
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
113sp_Permalink sp_Print

The cabernet songer thing is strange since their one time in such club went poorly 

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

Brainwashed by RadiantCowbells.

If you can't log in and can't use the forum go here and someone will help you out.

28 July 2020
7.28am
Avatar
Cousin Mark
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
9 June 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
114sp_Permalink sp_Print

Tony Japanese said
I'm happy to be corrected by those more knowledgeable than I am, but I don't agree with your suggestion that Brian was somehow entirely responsible for the Beatles stage-act from 1962 onwards.

Did he ask them not to swear, eat on stage and generally improve their attitude?  Yes. Did he persuade them to wear suits? Yes, that's pretty well documented. Brian was clever enough to understand the band wouldn't get to the next step - TV, radio, record contracts - if they continued to dress in leather, but I'm not sure he picked the suits out for them. If I remember correctly, he took the Beatles to one of his tailors and they picked out the materials/styles they wanted.

Did he choose what songs they'd play at their Decca audition? Possibly, but Mark Lewisohn dismisses this as nonsense. I think it's just a convenient excuse to explain why the band failed the audition.

Did he choose what songs they'd play at the Royal Command Performance or the Ed Sullivan Show? To be honest, I've not read anything to suggest he did. And I think the band were capable of choosing songs to suit the mood without needing Brian's instructions. I've not read anything to say Brian was responsible for choreographing their act right down to where they stood, what they said, and what they played.

There may have been a clause in the contract giving Brian the right to advise the band about what songs to play, but it doesn't necessarily mean he did. After all, didn't John once tell Brian to 'stick to your fucking percentages and we'll concentrate on the music'?

  

Actually, it was George who told Brian to stick to his percentages. As for their stage costumes, I am merely suggesting that their first suits were chosen quickly by Brian around the time of their first recording sessions at EMI/Parlophone. Pictures were taken at that session with a newly groomed Ringo and George displaying his recent black eye. Be honest: Those were suits that a bank clerk might wear, certainly not the Beatles as we came to know. In later years, I am sure that costumes were chosen by the group, with Brian's approval.

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

28 July 2020
8.39am
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 10825
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

What's your source for George coming out with the "percentage" line, @Cousin Mark, because most of the sources have it coming from John during the Pepper sessions after Brian commented he didn't think something sounded right, with John responding "You just stick to your percentages, Brian, and we'll play the music".

It's one of the stories often cited to show they may not have renewed his management contract at the end of 1967.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

Stay at home, protect your nation's health services, save lives, and do...
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

3 August 2020
11.55am
Avatar
Cousin Mark
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
9 June 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ron Nasty said
What's your source for George coming out with the "percentage" line, @Cousin Mark, because most of the sources have it coming from John during the Pepper sessions after Brian commented he didn't think something sounded right, with John responding "You just stick to your percentages, Brian, and we'll play the music".

It's one of the stories often cited to show they may not have renewed his management contract at the end of 1967.

  

@Ron-Nasty I will recheck my sources, but I'm sure it was an early source, possibly prior to SPHCB. It was part of the story that it was George who took more interest in the Beatles income than the others. I can see John saying it as he was more cheeky than the others, but there were rare occasions, George stood up to Brian. Let me check.

As for the contract renewal issue, I believe they would have renewed it, but Brian's % and his duties were due to be changed. 

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

9 August 2020
8.11pm
Avatar
Cousin Mark
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 30
Member Since:
9 June 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
117sp_Permalink sp_Print

Ron Nasty said
What's your source for George coming out with the "percentage" line, @Cousin Mark, because most of the sources have it coming from John during the Pepper sessions after Brian commented he didn't think something sounded right, with John responding "You just stick to your percentages, Brian, and we'll play the music".

It's one of the stories often cited to show they may not have renewed his management contract at the end of 1967.

  

I stand corrected. I have an extensive Beatles library (200 and counting) and perused my collection to determine whether John or George was responsible for telling Brian to "stick to his percentage." Some sources attribute the quote to George. But I think the most authoritative and reliable sources credit John, in particular, Ray Coleman in his book, "Brian Epstein: The Man Who Made The Beatles". If Coleman said it was John, that's good enough for me. Thank you, Ron Nasty, for making me recheck my sources.

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: Von Bontee, WeepingAtlasCedars, sir walter raleigh
Guest(s) 1
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15907
Ron Nasty: 10825
50yearslate: 8592
Necko: 7903
AppleScruffJunior: 7212
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
sir walter raleigh: 5105
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2573
Moderators: 6
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4890
Posts: 349823
Newest Members:
LarryInc64, dennisobell78, Cameron, Legionbus, kurlykale
Moderators: Joe: 5099, Zig: 9812, meanmistermustard: 23245, Ahhh Girl: 19396, Beatlebug: 17260, The Hole Got Fixed: 7921
Administrators: Joe: 5099