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relationship between them
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paulonthehill
4 Posts
(Offline)
1
8 August 2012 - 5.01pm

I don't really know where to post it, so... you guys move it if you think it's necessary.

 

Question:

I've never really found something explaining the relationships between each band's member. eg: how was the relationship from paul to ringo? from ringo to paul? from ringo to george? etc

 

Someone knows any text or something in books explaining this point?


thanks! ahdn_george_07

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minime
511 Posts
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2
8 August 2012 - 5.16pm

Well, most beatles bios somehow touch the subject. Philip Norman in John Lennon is quite explicit about their relationship, especially the one between Paul and John. You should take it with a grain of salt, though, since Philip is known for his tendency to mock Paul. Many Years from now ( authorized Paul version) also deals with the relationship of John and Paul. I don't know why, but it seems that Ringo/George, John/George etc. gets less attention than the writer pair. I would be interested too to hear too if there are some unbiased books on this subject

Ben Ramon
612 Posts
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3
8 August 2012 - 5.23pm

I read an interview with Ringo where he said he was closest to John, and John was his "favourite." Likewise, John always spoke very favourably of Ringo.

George and Paul never seemed to have a particularly good relationship; George seemed to hold a lot of resentment for Paul's patronising attitude towards him, even decades after the split, and I think he found Paul's ego and love of being the center of attention very irritating.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

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meanmistermustard

19104 Posts
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4
8 August 2012 - 10.17pm

There is a book called Two of Us that looks at John and Pauls relationship, i think its both as beatles and after the split but although i have the book i've never read it so no idea if its any good.

 

I think they all got on very well with Ringo, certainly looking at his solo career all of them were more than happy to help out with providing and playing on songs for the lps whenever Ringo asked.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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GeorgeTSimpson
Vienna, Austria
343 Posts
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5
9 August 2012 - 1.45pm

Ben are you sure about paul and george, I read (or saw in anthology) they were (at least in the beginning) the best friends of the band and usually shared one bedroom, of course that might have been different in the end

Once there was a way to get back homewards. Once there was a way to get back home; sleep pretty darling do not cry. And I will sing a lullaby

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meanmistermustard

19104 Posts
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6
9 August 2012 - 2.27pm

I remember reading that in the early days George would make John or Paul share a room with Ringo so that they became closer and Ringo felt more of a part of it all which is sweet (George being the initial driving force in getting Pete booted out), as is George taking a blackeye defending Ringo when fans of Pete were not happy and tried to whack his replacement.

Paul always saw George as his baby brother so like many siblings they had years of closeness but as they grew up a bit of distance came in, mainly because George developed into an excellent musician and songwriter and didnt feel Pauls opinion of his status in the band changed (I know what im trying to write but cant find the words - basically George was writing just as good songs as Paul (and John) and was best mates with Bob Dylan yet had to put up with 2 songs on an album and take crap off Paul whilst John entered a bubble with Yoko).  

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
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7
9 August 2012 - 2.35pm

Paul stuck in 1965 with his view of George till at least 1969. After Abbey Road, I think he changed his mind. All Things Must Pass obviously made Paul realise how good his songs that they rejected were.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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Dipsy
Turned left at Greenland
238 Posts
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8
9 August 2012 - 3.34pm

I've read/watched an interview in which John stated that he and Paul were never as close as they liked the public to believe: it only seemed to be good for the overall image of The Beatles if the two main songwriters appeared to be best friends. In a way, I can believe it, considering that they always credited their original compositions to "Lennon-McCartney" well after they stopped writing as a team; then again, I find it hard to believe, considering this interview probably took place shortly after the band's break-up and John was most likely speaking irrationally of Paul due to current animosity. In the same interview, he said that he and Ringo almost always shared a room--I suppose it may have just been to defend his rash statement, but it may have also been for the reasons Mustard listed.

"I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know? I'm just one of those people."

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meanmistermustard

19104 Posts
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9
9 August 2012 - 3.54pm

Everything John said you have to apply to the time period when he was speaking, he changed his opinion of everything depending on where he was in life, like most do. The 1970 Rolling Stone interview (which is available free and unedited as a podcast on itunes) was one time when he was passionately getting rid of tons of crap  and angst.

Personally i believe John and Paul were incredibly close from '57 to '66 when they started drifting apart.

 

George was slightly peeved in the late 80's/early 90's (i forget when exactly) when Paul openly stated in an interview that he would like the both of them to write together, he also didnt like how it appeared that Paul would bring The Beatles up whenever he had a new album or tour coming up. There was always some niggling issues between them, you can see it in the Anthology (which is hilarious at times), however they did make up before George died.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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minime
511 Posts
(Offline)
10
9 August 2012 - 4.23pm

Dipsy said
I've read/watched an interview in which John stated that he and Paul were never as close as they liked the public to believe: it only seemed to be good for the overall image of The Beatles if the two main songwriters appeared to be best friends. In a way, I can believe it, considering that they always credited their original compositions to "Lennon-McCartney" well after they stopped writing as a team; then again, I find it hard to believe, considering this interview probably took place shortly after the band's break-up and John was most likely speaking irrationally of Paul due to current animosity. In the same interview, he said that he and Ringo almost always shared a room--I suppose it may have just been to defend his rash statement, but it may have also been for the reasons Mustard listed.

ahdn_george_05 Their relationship kind of puzzles me... Of course the kind of playfulness between them you can see in the early interviews is most likely fake, but John went and declared that they were hardly friends at all? You are probably right that it's morely likely to do with the Beatles breakup than actual opinion of John's. I'm sure a lot of us remember that one quote from John, "I've had two companions in my life, Paul and Yoko. That's not bad". And Yoko must be the only person that John never denied the importance in his life. ( Elvises come and go, but Yokos stay (my own quote)).

A kind of curiosity for me is that both members of the "Lennon-McCartney" partnership periodically claimed that theirs existence was more important to the other one than they thought of the other one to be to themselvesa-hard-days-night-john-6

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Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
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11
9 August 2012 - 4.33pm

Meanmistermustard said, "Paul always saw George as his baby brother"

 

Yes. When George passed, Paul's statement read something to the effect that "I've lost my baby brother"

I think that says it all.

It's a nice thing to say but can also be seen as patronizing (and would have been by George).

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

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Dipsy
Turned left at Greenland
238 Posts
(Offline)
12
9 August 2012 - 6.05pm

minime said 
ahdn_george_05 Their relationship kind of puzzles me... Of course the kind of playfulness between them you can see in the early interviews is most likely fake, but John went and declared that they were hardly friends at all?

Well...he never said that they were hardly friends, but he did make a statement that they weren't as close as the public supposed them to be. That being said, your claim that a lot of the playfulness shared between the two in interviews was likely artificial is probably true--to an extent, anyway. Like Mustard said earlier:

meanmistermustard said
Everything John said you have to apply to the time period when he was speaking, he changed his opinion of everything depending on where he was in life, like most do.

I do believe John and Paul shared a special bond at some point during their relationship, but I'm not so sure it lasted as a strong one.

minime said 
A kind of curiosity for me is that both members of the "Lennon-McCartney" partnership periodically claimed that theirs existence was more important to the other one than they thought of the other one to be to themselvesa-hard-days-night-john-6

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Although interesting to note, that's just plain arrogance on their part; what they should have realized is how equally important they were to one another on terms of songwriting. The Beatles just wouldn't be the same if one hadn't found the other...

"I'm not going to change the way I look or the way I feel to conform to anything. I've always been a freak. So I've been a freak all my life and I have to live with that, you know? I'm just one of those people."

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vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
(Offline)
13
9 August 2012 - 9.02pm

In retrospect, it's too bad George never asked Paul to work on any of George's solo work - he could've gotten sweet revenge by bossing Paul around and getting him to play exactly what GEORGE wanted him to play!

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

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Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
(Offline)
14
9 August 2012 - 9.18pm

LOL.

George DID take it out on Phil Spector though on All Things MP.

He was apparently as picky and demanding as Paul had been with him

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

Ben Ramon
612 Posts
(Offline)
15
9 August 2012 - 11.26pm

Dipsy said
I've read/watched an interview in which John stated that he and Paul were never as close as they liked the public to believe: it only seemed to be good for the overall image of The Beatles if the two main songwriters appeared to be best friends.

If this comment was made any time between 1968 and 1973 then I don't believe a word of it. In the late '70s, when given a questionnaire by a fan which required John to write the first thing that popped into his head relating to a certain word or phrase, John's immediate answer to "Paul McCartney" was "extraordinary." I think they felt a powerful kinship due to the deaths of their mothers, and although their relationship was a competitive one it was clear they were great friends during the good times.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

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meanmistermustard

19104 Posts
(Offline)
16
9 August 2012 - 11.48pm

Ben Ramon said

Dipsy said
I've read/watched an interview in which John stated that he and Paul were never as close as they liked the public to believe: it only seemed to be good for the overall image of The Beatles if the two main songwriters appeared to be best friends.

If this comment was made any time between 1968 and 1973 then I don't believe a word of it. In the late '70s, when given a questionnaire by a fan which required John to write the first thing that popped into his head relating to a certain word or phrase, John's immediate answer to "Paul McCartney" was "extraordinary." I think they felt a powerful kinship due to the deaths of their mothers, and although their relationship was a competitive one it was clear they were great friends during the good times.

Definately. The deaths of Julia and Mary at such a young age for John and Paul respectively helped them develop an incredibly strong bond. Despite everything that went on in the late 60's and early 70's there was still something there that threatened Yoko and caused problems between her and Paul. I think they are now on pleasantries with each other, the odd cup of tea, but nothing more than that.

Any idea that there was a lack of closeness between John and Paul is blown away whenever you see Paul sing Here Today in concert.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

Ben Ramon
612 Posts
(Offline)
17
9 August 2012 - 11.52pm

meanmistermustard said

Ben Ramon said

Dipsy said

I've read/watched an interview in which John stated that he and Paul were never as close as they liked the public to believe: it only seemed to be good for the overall image of The Beatles if the two main songwriters appeared to be best friends.

If this comment was made any time between 1968 and 1973 then I don't believe a word of it. In the late '70s, when given a questionnaire by a fan which required John to write the first thing that popped into his head relating to a certain word or phrase, John's immediate answer to "Paul McCartney" was "extraordinary." I think they felt a powerful kinship due to the deaths of their mothers, and although their relationship was a competitive one it was clear they were great friends during the good times.

Definately. The deaths of Julia and Mary at such a young age for John and Paul respectively helped them develop an incredibly strong bond. Despite everything that went on in the late 60's and early 70's there was still something there that threatened Yoko and caused problems between her and Paul.

Indeed. It's been suggested that she engineered Paul's infamous 1980 grass bust because she felt threatened by the possibility of them bonding once again. I know it's a far fetched conspiracy, but I think there's some truth in Yoko's fear of how powerful the public reaction would be if the titanic Lennon/McCartney force began recording again.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

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meanmistermustard

19104 Posts
(Offline)
18
10 August 2012 - 12.58am

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Its also been said (by Jack Douglas) that Yoko blocked Pauls call getting thru to John during the Double Fantasy sessions - John never got wind of it.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
(Offline)
19
10 August 2012 - 4.57am

Wonder if Paul's ever been questioned about that to confirm it?

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

Ben Ramon
612 Posts
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20
10 August 2012 - 10.16am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....4&

I thought this was very funny, particularly the little introductory theme Paul composes for himself at 0:08, very accurate parody of his voice and style.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

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