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Philosophy question
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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
1
3 July 2013 - 11.59pm

Here's a question:

 

Let's say that humanity survives another 300 years and in that time a religion based on the Beatles begins to become prominent.  

Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

E is for 'Ergent'.

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Funny Paper
America
2080 Posts
(Offline)
2
4 July 2013 - 2.31am

Even if it was a good thing, it would soon split apart into sectarian factions, and a war would break out between the "Paul-Ah-Ah-Ahs-ites" and the "John-Ah-Ah-Ahs-ites".

Faded flowers, wait in a jar, till the evening is complete... complete... complete... complete...

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Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost

8720 Posts
(Offline)
3
4 July 2013 - 2.38am

A fabulous thing(y?). 

Throughout his/herstory there have been many bloody battles stemming from differences in religious beliefs. The worst battle The Beatles Bible has had to endure is who sang those bloody ahhhhs.

Who wouldn't want some of that?a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

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parlance
Slaggers
7065 Posts
(Offline)
4
4 July 2013 - 4.21am

Did you get the idea from that Beatles 3000 thing? That still has me chuckling.

As long as the religion was based on the Beatles pre-1968, it might not be a bad thing.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

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Ron Nasty
5560 Posts
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5
4 July 2013 - 7.14am

"...another deadly day in The War of The Beatles.

   "Beatlism as a religion was officially founded in 2262, on the three hundredth anniversary of the holiday celebrating an event remembered only as 'First Session'. Though non-believers found the concept of the 'musical messiahs' without merit, for decades the religion was considered relatively benign — surviving sermons like The Word, All You Need Is Love and All Together Now seen as messages of continuing unity tying together a humanity that has spread across the Solar System since the eco-disasters on home planet Earth in the 22nd century.

   "There were occasional clashes between followers of the Four Gospels — the Gospels of John, Paul, George and Ringo — as to which of these Gospels was the truthful representation of The Beatles. Though these clashes rarely turned violent outside of gatherings of those of the Faith known as 'Conventions' (the earliest of these 'Conventions' are believed to have happened within their lifetimes).

   "However, around thirty years ago, lesser Sects that had always been present became more forceful — those that followed the Gospels of the 'DA (duck-arse) drummer', the 'Art-School Painter', the 'Queer Jew', the 'Goon Producer', and other 'lesser' figures — questioning the very foundation of the Faith, and its unquestioning belief in the Gospels of John, Paul, George and Ringo.

   "The followers of the 'DA drummer' (referred to as the 'beautiful one' by his followers, known as a 'Pete Best' by his detractors — though the origin of what a 'Pete Best' is has become lost, other than it referring to someone who lost out on the good times) struck the first blow of the War eleven years ago when, on the anniversary of 'First Session', they attacked the planetary settlement of Dingle, a home to followers of the Gospel of Ringo, denouncing him as a usurper.

   "Since then we have witnessed many clashes — The Battle of the Eleanor Rigby text, The Battle of the In My Life melody, the continuing John or Paul 'Aahhs' skirmishes.

   "None worse though, perhaps, than the attack on the believers of Paul that we saw from the followers of John and George on Venus three months ago. A planetary conflict that is still raging on.

   "How is it that these followers of messages of peace and love have forgotten how to Give Peace A Chance?

   "And now my ship circles Mars, where many inhabitants of Venus fled after the attack — one of the two planets claimed by the 'Thumbs Aloft' One, also known as 'custodian of the Flaming Pie' from whence they were bestowed Beatles, during his lifetime (though religious accounts in the Gospels of John, George and Ringo are adamant his claim of ownership occurred after he instigated the 'Schism of Apple, Eastman & Klein' from which the earliest divisions in the Faith grew). The Battleships Instant Karma and Blow Away are also in orbit, and raining down fire. The surface of the red planet is really running red now.

   "It's Venus and Mars tonight..."

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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Linde
The Netherlands
2705 Posts
(Offline)
6
4 July 2013 - 9.29am

*claps enthousiastically*

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HeyTrud
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
549 Posts
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7
4 July 2013 - 2.14pm

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8 MJA!  *clapping*

"....take a sad song & make it Meilleur"....

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
8
4 July 2013 - 2.39pm

Bravo...  You really ran with that.

E is for 'Ergent'.

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Egroeg Evoli
Across the universe
1805 Posts
(Offline)
9
4 July 2013 - 6.48pm

That was quite amazing, mja. Great job. apple01apple01apple01

Also known as Egg-Rock, Egg-Roll, E-George, Eggy, Ravioli, Eggroll Eggrolli...

~witty quote~

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bikelock28
Standing There
228 Posts
(Offline)
10
4 July 2013 - 10.15pm

It'd be a bad thing. All You Need Is Love wouldn't work as a large-scale philosophy, it'd be an excuse for, like, crazy anarchy and it would probably only be corrupted and turn violent (could you argue that AYNIL is a vaguely Communist sentiment? Imagine definitely is.).

Plus, people would have to be made to listen to the Beatles- and no one likes something they're made to do, right? So no one would like the Beatles anymore, and what kind of world would that be?!

"I don't think we were actually swimming, as it were, with shirts on, 'cos we always wear overcoats when we're swimming,"-

George Harrison, Australia, June 1964

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Ron Nasty
5560 Posts
(Offline)
11
4 July 2013 - 11.16pm

Thanks to Linde, HeyTrud, Satan Himself and Egroeg Evoli for your comments. Just a little bit of fun, glad you appreciated it. Not sure I really answered your question though, Satan.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
(Offline)
12
6 July 2013 - 2.30pm

Fabulous, MJA6758!

Me thinks you should submit that to a magazine.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
13
6 July 2013 - 5.55pm

Time to follow up!:

 

So that question stemmed from some literature I read a long time ago, which posited a future where Elvis Presley's life had become the basis of a religion.

I've always had a bit of a problem with that, because as much as an iconoclast his was, I personally consider his contributions to society questionable at best.  His musical output up to early 1959 is, bar none, flawless.  But 1960-1977 leave little to be impressed with, aside from a handful of "comeback" hits and a couple of his more charming films.

 

So this leads my to philosophy question #2:

 

In a recent interview, iconic music producer stated that he believed that "The Beatles are proof of God".

What if this were true?

E is for 'Ergent'.

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
14
7 July 2013 - 10.24pm

No surprise that nobody wants to touch this one...

E is for 'Ergent'.

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Ron Nasty
5560 Posts
(Offline)
15
7 July 2013 - 11.03pm

I have no problem with it, Satan. To me, it's simple. It can only be proof of God if you believe in God. But then there is the problem of the God of which Faith? Presuming that the producer in question was a Christian, he wasn't saying it proved of the existence of the Hindi God(s) or any of those other Gods they consider Pagan, nor was he really saying it was proof of the Abrahamic God. He was saying they are proof of the Christian God. So once you break the statement down, it as actually a statement whose purpose is to reinforce the truth of his own beliefs - despite the fact that many of those belief have at various times denounced them.

He has taken something many of his Faith have had problems with, and at various times denounced and burnt their records, and attempted to bring it firmly into the fold by declaring it as evidence of the truth of that Faith.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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meanmistermustard

19087 Posts
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16
7 July 2013 - 11.27pm

Personally I think it would only be proof God if you already believed in God. What God that is is an entirely different discussion and probably best not entered into here. I don't think anyone has come to have faith and belief in God thru the Beatles but im happy to be proven wrong.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
2929 Posts
(Offline)
17
8 July 2013 - 1.22pm

I suppose that if you believe in God then you'll find so-called proof anywhere, because you believe in the first place. How you could explain to an atheist that the Beatles are ''proof'' of his existence though is more difficult.

The only way I can think of how anyone would come to have faith in God through the Beatles is through George, in this case the Hindi gods. But as the majority of Hindus are so because of them being taught it from birth by their family, I wouldn't have thought this scenario to be all that common.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
18
8 July 2013 - 10.18pm

Interesting that the go-to is an interpretation of 'God' as a Judea-Christian being...

I have a theory that expounds upon Mr. Rubin's claim that Beatles are Proof Of God.  It posits that 'God' is not any definable thing like our organized religions tell us, rather that God is life itself.  And this life itself decided to embed an Easter Egg into its "code" (if you will).  That Easter Egg is The Beatles.

I'll try to lay out my shaky theory tonight.  I have a couple of little girls to wrangle right now... 

E is for 'Ergent'.

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Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
2407 Posts
(Offline)
19
10 July 2013 - 7.54am

I don't think that's what he meant, because he said that The Beatles ate proof of god. If they were god, then how could they be proof of themselves? I think he meant that for something so perfect to happen, there has to be a god. You're probably thinking harder about that than the guy who said it did. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit

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SatanHimself
Hades-on-Leith
666 Posts
(Offline)
20
10 July 2013 - 4.42pm

I don't think I'm overthinking this at all.  I think people aren't using their imaginations.

Think about the Beatles for a  second, in relation to musical and social history:  They created almost *everything* that we love about music.

 

The album as an artistic statement

The idea that a band can be marketed and branded

The control of their images

The idea that music can bring about social change

The music video

The musician as studio wizard

The list goes on and on....

 

The Beatles are without argument the greatest band of all-time, and in 50 years nobody has come close to matching what they achieved in 8 years, much less the aggregate of their experiences before 1962 and after 1970.

When you think about it, doesn't it seem a bit impossible that a group of four working-class boys from post WW2 England could transform the world and the general consciousness of society with their story?

Playing Devil's Advocate here (because of who I am!), let's say then that whatever mystical force is running the universe decided that he/she/it wanted to give humans a hint that he/she/it exists by creating something perfect-yet-flawed, to serve as a map of human existence.  

Look at the history and the albums themselves as a metaphor for life:

 

Skiffle / UK shows / Hamburg - Conception & gestation

Please Please Me - Birth and Racous childhood (ages 0-7)

With The Beatles - Developing personality and exploring your own world (7-10)

A Hard Day's Night - A confident, self-assured youth  (10-12)

For Sale - Awkwardly transitioning out of childhood  (12-14)

Help! - Unsure about the world around you  (14-16)

Rubber Soul - developing an identity and sense of self as a teenager  (16-18)

Revolver - Late teenage years. Strength, confidence and experimentation  (18-20)

Sgt. Pepper - The prime of development, creativity and freedom (20-27)

Magical Mystery Tour - Still creative, but many things have changed in life and you feel like you're "growing up"  (27-35)

White -  Seeking a sense of individuality, an identity crisis.  Your interests expand beyond just your own needs. Feelings of alienation.  (35-50)

Yellow Submarine - Nostalgia for the past  (50-60)

Let It Be - Looking back fondly at life  (60-70)

Abbey Road - old age. Putting old quarrels aside and welcoming whatever comes next in the journey.  Accepting the end. (70-death)

 

Even the solo careers can serve as metaphors for how we live out our lives:

Paul - Active and vital

George - Spritual and reserved

John - Artistic, yet self-destructive. Always looking to the past.

Ringo - Settled and comfortable with life's accomplishments.

 

Crazy theory...?  Sure.  It is it any crazier than anything that's written in the Bible?  

E is for 'Ergent'.

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