Pete Best: why was he really kicked out? Was it fair? | Page 3 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

There is one thing that Pete had that they didn’t: a drum kit. It wasn’t just a case of a drummer, but a drum kit – which was far and away the most expensive instrument that a band needed.

@Zig Paul “acquired” the basics of that kit around 1958, during the last days of The Quarrymen and their time as Japage 3, which had been added to by a couple of bits Tommy Moore never got back when he left.

It was a good-ish kit, but was damaged in 1960 at the Grosvener Ballroom, and wouldn’t have done for Hamburg.

Though Paul was using it in the period running up to getting Pete after Norman Chapman quit, Paul was adamant he would not be stuck at the back of the band. It was one thing finally accepting the bass guitar as he was to do later, that still kept him stage-front, but he would never have agreed to go to Hamburg as their drummer, and much of his kit would probably have fallen apart on the way.

Thanks RN, as always.

Ad40 – it is possible that he might have if, as you say, it was their only option. But I don’t think it would be probable. It still would have left them seeking a fifth band member in a hurry. Your question would be a great one for Paul’s “You gave me the answer” site.

Ron Nasty said

Maybe we are starting to drift a bit too far from what Oudis wanted for this thread though!

Perhaps. Let’s call this part of the discussion the “prequel” to his inquiry. It’s awesome discussions such as this that led to the merging of threads with simialr topics in the first place – many similar discussions in multiple threads.

Oudis said

…I have noticed, yes, that most people seem to defend Peter’s replacement for Richard with no other arguments than “Peter sucked, Ringo was a genius, Ringo Forever Yeah!” –and they don’t cite references

References abound in books. Here are some nuggets from Tune In. Fact – George Martin did not want to use Pete in the studio because he was not a very good drummer. Had the Beatles not shown Pete the door, he would not have appeared on any albums in the near future. Fact – they recorded in Hamburg with Tony Sheridan and did some numbers on their own. Ever wonder why there is no bass drum in ‘My Bonnie ” or any of the other numbers? The producer for those sessions, Bert Kaempfert, thought so little of Pete’s drumming, he took away more than half of his kit. Those are not opinions or emotions – they are valid documentations.

Oudis said

Many people who posted have also talked about, over and over again, how Richard fit the personas of The Beatles in the shows and the movies –something I couldn’t care less about, being somebody who appreciates Beatles’ music and is not into the myth (I couldn’t care less for A Hard day’s Night). When we talk about the myth, Ringo is part of it and Peter is not –and that’s it. But it’s the beginning of irrationality. That is the kind of discussion I didn’t want.

Whether or not they ever made any movies is a moot point. Pete did not fit in…period. That has also been well documented in book after book, citing friends, fans, foes, inlaws and outlaws.

You asked “why was he really kicked out?”. We cited reasons. You asked, “was it fair?”. Some said yes, some said no. Such is life in a public forum. Rational or otherwise.

Mr. Kite said

I’m generally in agreement with you @Oudis, but here I respectfully (and really strongly) disagree. Ringo was just as important to the band as the other three, it was the perfect combination that allowed them to excel the way they did. Maybe they could’ve survived with Pete as their drummer, but I doubt they would’ve gotten past the early stage of their music. Ringo was the best drummer in Liverpool, in an already quite successful band, the other three Beatles already wanted him and it was the perfect opportunity to dispose of Pete. I do feel bad for him, but don’t think he missed out, because if he was in the same position, the band wouldn’t have been that big. His conflicting personality wouldn’t have allowed the major popularity boom leading to Beatlemania, because a lot of the appeal was the group dynamic, can you imagine Pete in A Hard Day’s Night ? And he wasn’t skilled enough as a drummer to keep up with the others.

Ringo may not have been a ‘creative force,’ if by that you mean an amazing songwriter, but the way he played, and his distinct sound (caused by the fact that he’s a lefty playing righty kit) are a major part of what we hear on Beatles songs. I doubt Pete would’ve been able to pull off Tomorrow Never Knows (especially) or Come Together , and would he have been able to drum on Here Comes The Sun with its odd time signature?

[…]

Just as mr. Sun king pointed out, Pete went with them to Germany because they needed to leave quickly. The only reason he was in the band to begin with was because he was one of the few people who owned their own kit, and his mom had a venue, the Casbah Coffee Club.

The bolded are all facts. Yes I gave my opinions as well, but the question “was it fair?” brings in opinions and emotions. You also challenged Ringo as a creative force, and he was in many ways, including acting in AHDN .

You mentioned personas in your first post, and morals which are not fact. You also stated your opinion, that anyone could’ve taken Ringo’s place, and that’s been challenged using logic (not just emotion): The Beatles wouldn’t have been as popular or successful with Pete.

Oudis said

Ron Nasty said
Pete chose to treat it as a job, and saw them as “work friends”, where for John, Paul and George it was more than that, and they wanted a drummer who shared their worldview. They wanted their drummer to be a friend, a member of their gang, as opposed to just being someone they worked with.

To miss that, and to think it’s all about musicianship and hours put in, is to fundamentally misunderstand any creative endeavour created by a group dynamic. It is always about the personal relationships.

Valid point, Ron Nasty. He was the odd-man-out. And out he went. Unfair, but it makes sense from an emotional viewpoint.

You’re still missing the biggest point I’ve been making, @Oudis. Pete made his choice about the relationship he wanted with John, Paul and George. You can call it unfair should you want, but it would be equally unfair to expect them to put up with his attitude towards them, that he had no interest in being friends, no interest in being part of the gang. He made that choice, not them.

I feel I should also point out that every post I have made on this subject has been full of facts that I’ve been ready to cite sources when asked. Everybody has been able to cite sources for what they’ve said. You may disagree with their, or my, assessment of those facts, but there are many facts in this thread (including me correcting those that were wrong).