Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Lennon / McCartney: The collaborations
25 March 2016
8.56am
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9807
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

A recent post from @Ron Nasty sparked a thought.

Ron Nasty said 

John often came up with lines that made McCartney songs. I always think of I Saw Her Standing There . John objects to Paul's line, "Never been a beauty queen", and suggests the more knowing wink of "You know what I mean". Makes the song. Turns it on its head, and makes it into the classic it is. We'd still be cringing at the "beauty queen" line if not for John saving us from it.

There have been many discussions on how John & Paul helped each other in general. I this would be a great place to discuss how each helped the other make a particular song better. RN's example above is a perfect one. One of my favorite examples is just a two-sentence blurb from John in discussing the writing of 'With A Little Help From My Friends ':

"That's Paul with a little help from me. 'What do you see when you turn out the light/I can't tell you but I know it's mine' is mine."

What are some of your favorite examples?

The following people thank Zig for this post:

Beatlebug, O Boogie, Starr Shine?, Into the Sky with Diamonds, BeatleSnut

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

25 March 2016
9.50am
Avatar
O Boogie
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1352
Member Since:
27 April 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

My favourite is Paul, ever the optimist singing "It's getting better getting better all the time ", and John going "Well, it couldn't get much worse". I can almost hear. the nasal, sarcastic voice of his a-hard-days-night-john-6beatlemaniacs_02_gif (Right, I'll go fangirl elsewhere). Even Paul gives this as an example of what their songwriting partnership was like.

 

Another example, while not really contributing, it's really a nice part on Julia where Paul is sort of egging John on from the booth or wherever. In the same vein, there's a small anecdote where Paul was having a bad day or something, and John takes him aside and encourages him by saying "You can do it" or something like that. This was in the early days. These aren't exactly contributions per se to the music, but definitely to the morale.

The following people thank O Boogie for this post:

Starr Shine?, Beatlebug, Zig

 

For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun

25 March 2016
12.20pm
Avatar
Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<
the Netherlands
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1435
Member Since:
27 March 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

LoveUlikeGuitars said
there's a small anecdote where Paul was having a bad day or something, and John takes him aside and encourages him by saying "You can do it" or something like that. This was in the early days. These aren't exactly contributions per se to the music, but definitely to the morale.

Yeah, that was when they recorded either Long Tall Sally or Kansas City . Paul had difficulty getting into that 'who gives a fuck' state of mind which he needed to get those screams right. That's when John told him he could do it, and he did. I love those anecdotes, where you see how much the other's approval and/or encouragement played a role in the whole saga.

 

I can't really think of any examples of one helping the other write a song right now, but I know there are plenty. 

The following people thank Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^< for this post:

Beatlebug, O Boogie, Zig, BeatleSnut

Formerly Known As JPM-Fangirl --Paul-Badge.png 2016

'Out There' - 07-06-2015 - Ziggo Dome Amsterdam -- 'One On One' - 12-06-2016 - Pinkpop Festival Landgraaf

25 March 2016
12.47pm
Avatar
O Boogie
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1352
Member Since:
27 April 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There's this Drive My Car writing session that Paul talks about on the Graham Norton show, where he goes to Kenwood, it was supposed to be Golden Rings, and they were getting nowhere with it, and then they had tea and came up with Drive My Car . (At which point another guest James Corden goes "Yeah, right, tea!" xD). Sounded like quite a team work to me x)

The following people thank O Boogie for this post:

Beatlebug

 

For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun

25 March 2016
2.17pm
Avatar
The Hippie Chick
Counting the holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1387
Member Since:
17 January 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

How about Lovely Rita ... John's contributions of background noises. It made the song, in my humble. Also his backing vocals.

“She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together.”  - J.D. Salinger

25 March 2016
5.44pm
Avatar
Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1848
Member Since:
9 August 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

littledarling "My favourite is Paul, ever the optimist singing "It's getting better getting better all the time ", and John going "Well, it couldn't get much worse". "

Yes, I've heard Sir Paul say this a number of times, but quite frankly a) you really have to listen hard to hear it and b) I don't think it's particularly brilliant.

"You know what I mean" instead of the beauty queen - that, definitely.

I think a more amusing and equivocal example is Lennon urging McCartney to leave in the "movement is on your shoulder" in "Hey Jude ."

 

(Has anyone drawn up a list of songs on which McCartney made major contributions to Lennon's songs?)

The following people thank Into the Sky with Diamonds for this post:

pepperland, Zig

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

25 March 2016
7.26pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22206
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Into the Sky with Diamonds said
littledarling "My favourite is Paul, ever the optimist singing "It's getting better getting better all the time ", and John going "Well, it couldn't get much worse". "

Yes, I've heard Sir Paul say this a number of times, but quite frankly a) you really have to listen hard to hear it and b) I don't think it's particularly brilliant.

"You know what I mean" instead of the beauty queen - that, definitely.

I think a more amusing and equivocal example is Lennon urging McCartney to leave in the "movement is on your shoulder" in "Hey Jude ."

 

(Has anyone drawn up a list of songs on which McCartney made major contributions to Lennon's songs?)

The drums on 'Ticket To Ride ' and tape loops on 'Tomorrow Never Knows ' would be two.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

26 March 2016
3.21am
Avatar
Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<
the Netherlands
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1435
Member Since:
27 March 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Formerly Known As JPM-Fangirl --Paul-Badge.png 2016

'Out There' - 07-06-2015 - Ziggo Dome Amsterdam -- 'One On One' - 12-06-2016 - Pinkpop Festival Landgraaf

26 March 2016
4.07am
Avatar
O Boogie
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1352
Member Since:
27 April 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

There is also the amazing aspect of their collaboration where two individual songs (or part of songs) get merged into one..where one has the beginning and the end, but no middle, and the other has no beginning and end, but just a part of it which goes into the other song.. I can think of two examples being Baby You're A Rich Man and We Can Work It Out (?). Can A Day In The Life be considered as one, too?

The following people thank O Boogie for this post:

pepperland

 

For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun

26 March 2016
4.24am
Avatar
Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<
the Netherlands
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1435
Member Since:
27 March 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Definitely. As far as I know, the middle bit is all Paul's, and he apparently had a hand in the orchestral thing too, though I could be mistaken about that.

Formerly Known As JPM-Fangirl --Paul-Badge.png 2016

'Out There' - 07-06-2015 - Ziggo Dome Amsterdam -- 'One On One' - 12-06-2016 - Pinkpop Festival Landgraaf

26 March 2016
5.44am
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 22206
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

'Don't Let Me Down ' was shaped by Paul and George after John came into the 'Get Back ' sessions with little more than a chorus and a verse. 

No idea if it counts but for some reason 'Every Little Thing ' was written largely by Paul but sung by John. Would be interesting to know why Paul didnt sing lead.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

26 March 2016
7.13am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 15150
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

meanmistermustard said

No idea if it counts but for some reason 'Every Little Thing ' was written largely by Paul but sung by John. Would be interesting to know why Paul didnt sing lead.

Aye, that's a rather unusual case for the Fabs. Other bands do that all the time, but I can't think of another Beatles case where someone other than the main songwriter sang the main lead (unless it was a song written specifically for Ringo or George). 

The who-wrote-it-sang-it rule is one of my favourite things about the Beatles. ahdn_george_06

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 597
Currently Online: leoc, SgtPeppersBulldog, Richard
1
Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15570
Ron Nasty: 9662
Necko: 7851
50yearslate: 7276
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
AppleScruffJunior: 6294
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6045
mithveaen: 4621
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2714
Moderators: 6
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4759
Posts: 327032
Newest Members:
Jose R. Gonzalez, Luke Kajder, CharlieCC, rickc, jaja0714
Moderators: Joe: 5056, Zig: 9807, meanmistermustard: 22206, Ahhh Girl: 18289, Beatlebug: 15150, The Hole Got Fixed: 6856
Administrators: Joe: 5056, Ellie: 4