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If Brian Epstein Lived?
10 June 2018
8.12am
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Rendersen25
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Hey guys, I’m curious as to what you’d think if Brian Epstein had not overdosed in 1967. Would the band have stayed together? Would he eventually get fired? And what about Apple?

11 June 2018
1.45am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I think they might have stayed together though may be Paul would have tried to fire him…which probably would have lead the other three to kill Paul and replace him with a guy picked up from a casual McCartney look-alike contest…more or less…

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14 June 2018
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Timothy
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Shamrock Womlbs said
I think they might have stayed together though may be Paul would have tried to fire him…which probably would have lead the other three to kill Paul and replace him with a guy picked up from a casual McCartney look-alike contest…more or less…  

Ha, love it. 

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9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

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15 June 2018
12.45pm
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SgtPeppersBulldog
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Rendersen25 said
Hey guys, I’m curious as to what you’d think if Brian Epstein had not overdosed in 1967. Would the band have stayed together? Would he eventually get fired? And what about Apple?  

With Brian and a few others there to oversee Apple and deal with it’s business side as well as it’s other activities e.g. Apple Films and the boutique, I think such things wouldn’t have intervened with The Beatles’ studio work and caused as great tensions as it did between them in 1968 – 70. Perhaps, if The Beatles did call it quits in a universe where Brian lives, it probably would’ve ended on a lighter note than the lawsuit. Heck, maybe they stay together a few years (or even decades) further under Brian’s management.

"Some kind of happiness is measured out in miles... " 

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30 June 2020
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Cousin Mark
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Rendersen25 said
Hey guys, I’m curious as to what you’d think if Brian Epstein had not overdosed in 1967. Would the band have stayed together? Would he eventually get fired? And what about Apple?

  

I agree with John Lennon ‘s assessment that Brian’s death was ultimately the cause of the Beatles’ breakup. All of the other issues might not have come up or would have been “fixed” by Brian. I don’t believe that Apple Corps would have been created under Brian’s watch, at least not in the form as we came to know it under the Beatles direction. Brian would have managed the company more responsibly. All of the tension the Beatles suffered while trying to play businessmen would not have occurred. There would have been no Allen Klein.

But Brian’s management fee would have been cut from 25% to at least 20%, if not 15%. One of Brian’s once important duties (booking, stage act management), would no longer exist since they had stopped touring and performing concerts.

Would they have fired him? If they were planning to do so, they would have needed to act quickly. Despite some bad decisions on his part in their early days, the Beatles were still on excellent personal terms with Brian up to the day of his death. His contract was up for renewal later in 1967, just months after he passed away. If they had any plans to dismiss him, I don’t think they had anybody waiting in the wings to replace him.

And perhaps Brian might have addressed some of their individual grievances, especially those of John’s and George’s.

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

30 June 2020
12.19am
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Ron Nasty
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Apple was initially set up in 1967, and Brian was one of the original Executive Board.

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30 June 2020
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Starr Shine?
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I wonder if things continued, would Brian of come out when it was legal for him to do so and what impact that would of had since more people were being open in the 70s.

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30 June 2020
10.38pm
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Cousin Mark
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Ron Nasty said
Apple was initially set up in 1967, and Brian was one of the original Executive Board.

  

Thanks for that info. But it wasn’t called “Apple” as that time, was it? Why did Paul and John wait until 1968 to announce the creation of Apple in NYC? Was their concept of Apple the same as Brian’s or did they expand upon the original idea?

GRANDFATHER: Why do you always use your left hand?

PAUL: Well, don't be daft, I've got to.

GRANDFATHER: And I take a left-handed view of life, I've got to.

1 July 2020
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JW OBoogie
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I think Brian’s role was gone once the Beatles stopped playing live. He had the rest of his Stable of Stars but no one came close to what the Beatles meant to him. He had no interest in their recording side and had not done a great job of managing their money.

He was a complex person who had changed his career focus many times before the Beatles came along. If he did not find something else big enough to replace them, the outcome that actually happened would probably not change.

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11 July 2020
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Magill
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We’d say goodbye to:

Flying

Wild Honey Pie

Why Don’t We Do It In The Road

Dig It

Maggie May

And basically anything that isn’t perfect

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11 July 2020
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Pablo Ramon
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Magill said
We’d say goodbye to:

Flying

Wild Honey Pie

Why Don’t We Do It In The Road

Dig It

Maggie May

And basically anything that isn’t perfect

  

What’s your reasoning for that? Brian NEVER had control over what happened in the studio. 

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14 May 2021
9.35am
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Ahhh Girl
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I wonder how Brian would have taken John’s murder. 

I wonder if would still be calling them “The Boys ” even to this day when talking about the past? Would he use that endearing term for Paul and Ringo.

30 May 2021
3.37pm
castironshore
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JW OBoogie said
I think Brian’s role was gone once the Beatles stopped playing live. He had the rest of his Stable of Stars but no one came close to what the Beatles meant to him. He had no interest in their recording side and had not done a great job of managing their money.

He was a complex person who had changed his career focus many times before the Beatles came along. If he did not find something else big enough to replace them, the outcome that actually happened would probably not change.

  

I reckon there is a lot of truth in this. When they stopped touring they had little need for him, plus the band had started to become more critical of him through 1966 for a variety of reasons….Paul and George for instance were both becoming more concerned about the business side of things (Epstein was terrified the band were going to dispense with him when his contract was up) 

It looked to me that Brians main function was to smooth over the rows, make sure everyone was involved in projects equally and that egos were soothed. 

Would Brian have stayed manager ? I think thats very open to argument, some of the business decisions he had made shocked the band greatly after his death. But on the other hand with John and George starting to become more difficult as 67 progressed I’m not sure Paul would have been so keen to get rid of someone who represented the groups unity. But remember also Brian was using a lot of drugs and was becoming more and more erratic. 

My guess is whats most likely is that if ‘Eppy’ had lived he would likely have taken a reduced role in the bands affairs going forward. I don’t think he would have been as influential a figure and the band would likely have collapsed anyway. 

23 January 2024
6.15pm
Old Soak
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Mod note: this post originally started a thread titled What if Brian Epstein hadn’t died? Since we have this established thread, I moved the post here.

How different would things be? For a start:

  • No ABKCO/Eastman argument – would they have stayed together longer under Brian’s control as a result?
  • Would they have been persuaded to do one-off shows, or appear on TV more?
  • Likely no 1962-1966 and 1967-1970 albums, or Hey Jude compilation
  • No John Lennon /Plastic Ono Band, Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band, McCartney, Beaucoup of Blues or All Things Must Pass potentially, songs on Beatles albums 

Any other potential differences in this alternative universe?

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norwegianwood, Rube
23 January 2024
9.15pm
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Ahhh Girl
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I think we’d still get a statue of him.

eppy.JPGImage Enlarger

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24 January 2024
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Sea Belt
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Old Soak said
Mod note: this post originally started a thread titled What if Brian Epstein hadn’t died? Since we have this established thread, I moved the post here.

How different would things be? For a start:

    • No ABKCO/Eastman argument – would they have stayed together longer under Brian’s control as a result?
    • Would they have been persuaded to do one-off shows, or appear on TV more?
    • Likely no 1962-1966 and 1967-1970 albums, or Hey Jude compilation

Any other potential differences in this alternative universe?

  

At first I thought a similar thing — my fantasy of if the Beatles stayed together through the 70s and only disbanded in 1980 or thereafter was ruined because I thought “oh no, that means all the great solo music by Ringo, John, Paul and George would never have been recorded!”  However, I realize this ain’t necessarily so, in that they may likely have simply incorporated the songs into their Beatles repertoire — as for example, we know that a few songs off McCartney I (e.g., Maybe I’m Amazed ) and Ram were written while he was still with the Beatles anyway.

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Now today I find, you have changed your mind

24 January 2024
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norwegianwood
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I also don’t think the Magical Mystery Tour movie would have been made… 

I feel like Paul only suggested making the film to keep them together and everyone else happy after Brian’s death. a-hard-days-night-paul-10

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Reporter: What do you and Ringo do while John and Paul write songs?

George: We play marbles.

24 January 2024
4.57pm
Old Soak
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Old Soak said
Mod note: this post originally started a thread titled What if Brian Epstein hadn’t died? Since we have this established thread, I moved the post here.

How different would things be? For a start:

    • No ABKCO/Eastman argument – would they have stayed together longer under Brian’s control as a result?
    • Would they have been persuaded to do one-off shows, or appear on TV more?
    • Likely no 1962-1966 and 1967-1970 albums, or Hey Jude compilation

Any other potential differences in this alternative universe?

  

I searched via “Brian Epstein” and “Epstein” and got pages of threads seemingly unrelated, so not sure how to search to identify an existing thread short of trawling

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Ahhh Girl
24 January 2024
9.39pm
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Ahhh Girl
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No fear, @Old Soak, we have this thread Thread Search Thread if you aren’t sure if we have a thread on a topic. https://www.beatlesbible.com/f…..ch-thread/

Here’s the search I did to find this thread.

Screenshot_20240124_153900.jpgImage Enlarger

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