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The Beatles Debate Game
21 December 2014
6.30pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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I haven't started a thread in a couple of months so here we go.

I have devised a game- my love of debating and The Beatles have formed together to become 'The Beatles Debate Game'- oh catchy title.

We shall let the Oxford English dictionary define what a 'debate' is for those we do not know:

'A formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which opposing arguments are put forward and which usually ends with a vote'- bugger to the vote I say but I think this could make for an interesting or at the very worst- a controversial thread.

There are a couple of rules:

1. Debates are strictly Beatles-only topics.

2. No talking about who sang the Aaaahs in A Day In The Life - as we all know it's John.

3. At least three different people have to express their opinion on the argument- unless nobody has responsed within 2 days then a new topic can be started.

4. No 'yes' or 'no' responses i.e one word answers. If you agree tell us why you agree or why you disagree. 

5. If a topic is interesting and gets a lot of traffic don't post a new argument just because you want to- wait until there is no one commenting on the topic anymore or the same arguments are being used over and over again.

6. Be nice-we all have our own opinions and we have a right to express them- don't call any people names just because you don't agree with their opinions. Yet we're all lovely people here so I don't think that will happen.

7. Solo and Beatles careers can be discussed but don't try and focus on religion or politics too much please as it will only end in tears. 

God ASJ stop rambling, I think I've covered everything although I might edit this original post if I come up with anything else. This will either be a great success or a great failure (hopefully the former). 

 

First argument: 

Something is not the best love song The Beatles ever wrote. I believe their best romantic song was All My Loving . The lyrics are adorable about the separation of two sweethearts and it's just a great song with good vocals from Paul and a charming little George solo and that last little McCartney 'ooooh oooh' at the end- brilliant. 

Well do you agree or disagree, what do you think is the best Beatles love song?

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meanmistermustard, Mr. Kite

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

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21 December 2014
7.03pm
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Starr Shine?
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I disagree, I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da is the best Beatles love song. It is a love song that spans their relationship. It starts with Desmond liking Molly's face then they have kids. They both have jobs and lives and even some personality plus the song is really up beat and fun.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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21 December 2014
7.06pm
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parlance
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ASJ, does this has to be point-counterpoint or can people just chime in regardless of whether they agree with the poster above?

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

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21 December 2014
7.14pm
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AppleScruffJunior
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parlance said
ASJ, does this has to be point-counterpoint or can people just chime in regardless of whether they agree with the poster above?

parlance

You can chime in whenever but feel free to agree/disagree with myself or anyone above you :)

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parlance

 

INTROVERTS UNITE! Separately....in your own homes!

                 ***

Make Love, Not Wardrobes!

                ***

"Stop throwing jelly beans at me"- George Harrison

21 December 2014
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StrawberryFieldsForever
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Umm, I think All My Loving is more of a "young love" song and to me it sounds cute. Something , on the other hand, sounds more mature and the instrumental is just beautiful. I love Don't Let Me Down though for it is more "raw" in terms of the profession of love but at the same time it cannot be classified as a romantic song for the very reason that sets is apart (assuming that a romantic song should sound flattering). 

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21 December 2014
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Great idea @AppleScruffJunior ! It'll allow newbies like me to know if our (shallow) analyses of the various aspects of the Beatles fit in with the historical facts.

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AppleScruffJunior
22 December 2014
12.59am
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Lucy in the Sky
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I agree that Something is the best love song. I love All My Loving but it's not as deep or mature. Something talks about that je ne sais quoi that makes someone special in your eyes. George sings it so lovingly; you can really imagine him thinking about that girl (or Krishna, as he later said). The guitar part is also masterfully played.

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22 December 2014
4.21pm
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Zig
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As much as I would love to say that George wrote the best love song, I feel 'Something ' falls short. The lyrics have me thinking it is the best love song until the lines;
You're asking me will my love grow
I don't know, I don't know
You stick around now it may show
I don't know, I don't know

He could be saying that his love couldn't grow as it is as strong as it could possibly be. He could also be saying that there is room for more love, but he is in doubt over whether or not it could happen. This leaves room for doubt - we don't know, we don't know.

For me, songs like 'All My Loving ' remove the doubt about true love. My personal vote for the most definitive love song is 'And I Love Her '.

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22 December 2014
5.19pm
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Hey Jude !
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Annadog40 said
I disagree, I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da is the best Beatles love song. It is a love song that spans their relationship. It starts with Desmond liking Molly's face then they have kids. They both have jobs and lives and even some personality plus the song is really up beat and fun.

Not sure, if quoting someone is okay, so please forgive me if im breaking rules.

I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da , is love song but if it had a slower tempo, more maturity in vocals and also if they added a little better lyrics, it could be contender for top beatles song. Since this is a up-beat song this doesn't make it to the top, it's kinda cute-ish thingy.

Intro:

Something has got one of the best intro and most memorable intro. It's been so long that I haven't listened to it and  I only remember the intro.

Lyric:

llyrically it's one of the best george's work, comparing with I Need You , Within You and Without You and some others.

 

Solo:

Im not talking about guitar solo. George was all alone, some people may have helped him but it's 95% pure George. I read a tumblr post that George wrote this song when he had an argument with pattie. It's a whole story that pattie woke up, found that george wasn't sleeping with her, and in search of him she found a note/page which had some lyrics of something.

 

I think tumblr's name is Wonderful Tonight, @Mr. Kite may know or can help

Lennon-McCartney:

And I Love Her (Beautiful lyrics but lack something I don't know which makes it perfect)

Don't Let Me Down (can't beat something)

If I Fell                ( it's a shocker, everything is out of blue; lyrics, vocalism, outro and intro and scene in film was also                                       unexpected but lyrics makes it a little low than something)

22 December 2014
5.27pm
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Starr Shine?
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Hey Jude ! said

Annadog40 said
I disagree, I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da is the best Beatles love song. It is a love song that spans their relationship. It starts with Desmond liking Molly's face then they have kids. They both have jobs and lives and even some personality plus the song is really up beat and fun.

Not sure, if quoting someone is okay, so please forgive me if im breaking rules.

I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da , is love song but if it had a slower tempo, more maturity in vocals and also if they added a little better lyrics, it could be contender for top beatles song. Since this is a up-beat song this doesn't make it to the top, it's kinda cute-ish thingy.

I am fairly sure that you can quote and respond to people.

 

Why does the up-beat part make it worse for you as a love song? I like that it is up beat and cute since not every relationship is a heavy dramatic thing and Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da goes through the life of Desmond and Molly and develops their relationship unlike most other Beatles songs.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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22 December 2014
5.49pm
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meanmistermustard
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I read in one book (possibly 'A Hard Days Write' that the lines "i'll pretend that i'm kissing the lips i am missing and hope that my dreams will come true" suggests that Paul is with another girl (something that Paul was prone to). I don't know how folk see those lines.

As for the "i don't know" section of 'Something ' i think it improves the song as it takes it away from being one of those 'our love lasts for ever and will forever be strong' tracks as that's not how love is in an ideal world, you have to work at it all the time and not take it for granted (something Paul notes in a number of his songs).

The fact that Paul wrote 'All My Loving ' when he was 20, maybe 21 and George wrote 'Something ' aged 25 is incredible as both lyrics are incredibly mature.

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23 December 2014
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Mr. Kite
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meanmistermustard said
As for the "i don't know" section of 'Something ' i think it improves the song as it takes it away from being one of those 'our love lasts for ever and will forever be strong' tracks as that's not how love is in an ideal world, you have to work at it all the time and not take it for granted (something Paul notes in a number of his songs).

I think that's a very good point, and I feel that adding that element of uncertainty gives the song more meaning. It's easy for someone to stay in a relationship they're sure will continue to prosper, but staying when you're unsure is more difficult and, depending on how you look at that, could mean deeper love.

I usually think of Something as written for Pattie Boyd, but can't be sure because George had many affairs and it's quite possible the song could be for one of those girls, or Krishna as @Lucy in the Sky pointed out. I don't remember the anecdote about Pattie waking up to the lyrics, and I'm pretty sure that would've been in her book if it was true. She did however claim the song was about her, but I'm still not completely sure it is.

No matter who it was written for I think it is an amazing song both lyrically and musically. The words are quite well written and the music is very expressive. The meaning comes through in the music and the lead guitar is just amazing. I really really love this song and was ready to defend it as the best Beatles love song until @Hey Jude ! mentioned If I Fell .

I think If I Fell is an extremely mature love song from quite early in The Beatles career. It shows John as vulnerable, begging not to be hurt again. I think the lyrics are great and the harmonies really emphasize them well. It shows that trust is important in love and that love is more meaningful than just physical interaction, "more than just holding hands." It's one of the best songs on the album, and a really amazing love song.

I'm between that and Something for best love song. I think All My Loving is sweet, but not as mature as others have noted.
I think Don't Let Me Down is another great, emotional, heartfelt song as @StrawberryFieldsForever noted, but not the best.

Great thread idea, @AppleScruffJunior! a-hard-days-night-george-9
Wait ... you're doubting George?!

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23 December 2014
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There is an incredible frailty and vulnerability expressed in 'If I Fell ', the fear of entering into a new relationship, getting hurt again and it not working out. The demo of just John and his guitar documents that even more clearly as it does sound like a hurt, confused John pouring out his feelings over a crappy mic as that's all there was (the poor sound quality actually benefits the song in some ways here).

I could post another song or two but i dont want to get too far away from the question.

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23 December 2014
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Hey Jude !
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[

Annadog40 said

Hey Jude ! said

Annadog40 said
I disagree, I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da is the best Beatles love song. It is a love song that spans their relationship. It starts with Desmond liking Molly's face then they have kids. They both have jobs and lives and even some personality plus the song is really up beat and fun.

Not sure, if quoting someone is okay, so please forgive me if im breaking rules.

I think Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da , is love song but if it had a slower tempo, more maturity in vocals and also if they added a little better lyrics, it could be contender for top beatles song. Since this is a up-beat song this doesn't make it to the top, it's kinda cute-ish thingy.

I am fairly sure that you can quote and respond to people.

 

Why does the up-beat part make it worse for you as a love song? I like that it is up beat and cute since not every relationship is a heavy dramatic thing and Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da goes through the life of Desmond and Molly and develops their relationship unlike most other Beatles songs.

When I first listened to it I was shocked, I didn't like it at all (funny story I used think it was a John's heavy psychedelic song, maybe that's the reason)

I started to like it after a few more tries but my definition of love song is more romantic, but I think the gigs at end damage the song somehow, but it is cool but not the best song beatles made (in my opinion)

23 December 2014
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I could see Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da as a love song, or at the very least, a song about true love. The two main characters complement and work so well with each other. It's as if Desmondandmolly were one person, similar to Johnandyoko.

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23 December 2014
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StrawberryFieldsForever
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I think I Will is another great love song. Would you regard it as a great romantic song too? The lyrics are mature and the vocals sound very sincere.

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23 December 2014
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'I Will ', while all over the place lyrically, is filled with love. But what love? Current? Past? Future?

He's loved her for an undetermined amount of time - that is, if he's ever seen her - and will love her forever if at last he finds her because she is endearing to him. Make up your mind, Macca. We know you love/loved/will love her...but when?

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23 December 2014
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Some are calling Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da the best love song but I've always seen it more as of a story song. How are we defining a love song? My view of a love song is a song addressed to someone, proclaiming your feelings or something along those lines. Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da  is about two people who love each other, but it's not a love song in the way that Something , If I Fell and All My Loving are.

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23 December 2014
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I find it more of a love song since Desmond and Molly's love lasts while songs like All My Loving feel like infatuation more than love

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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24 December 2014
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Here, There, and Everywhere is so grossly underrated! I love its simpleness and the pure passion of the song. Is it their best love song? Maybe, but it certainly is my favorite. 

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