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Do the Beatles make you want to give up?
18 November 2014
6.04pm
SirHuddlestonFuddleston
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I'm 47, and I've believed the Beatles were the greatest band ever since grade school. As I've grown older and experienced more music, art, literature, my admiration for the Beatles' accomplishment only grows. I've heard and played enough music to believe that the Beatles are at the very top of the mountain, and it's a looooonnnnng way down until you find another group. I believe that theirs will be the only music of the 20th century which is still actively listened to, not merely from historical curiosity, two hundred years from now. They transcended popular music to become the only popular music act to put in the pantheon with Bach, Beethoven, Shakespeare, Tolstoy.

In a word, I think the Beatles are great. So great, in fact, that it makes me despair of my own achievement in life. I have a good job, accomplishments, friends, etc, but I have to force myself to work, or write stories, or play the piano, knowing that I'm hopelessly untalented.

I feel like I'm Salieri in Amadeus. I'm smart enough to recognize the genius of these guys, but it depresses me, knowing my own mediocrity. Does anybody else have this feeling -- that "why didn't I make something of myself" feeling. I don't know how musicians in the 60s didn't just commit suicide in despair.

18 November 2014
8.18pm
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trcanberra
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Some people have done better than me, but many have done worse, so that is life.

Though I did give up playing the guitar when Hendrix played it better behind his back or by setting it on fire than I did after 3 years of practice.

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18 November 2014
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StrawberryWalrus
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Nonsense. If he could do it, why can't I, too? It's practice, practice, practice. I bet I'm the crappiest guitar player here but that doesn't even bother me much. I hope I play it for living.

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19 November 2014
1.28am
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trcanberra said

Some people have done better than me, but many have done worse, so that is life.

Though I did give up playing the guitar when Hendrix played it better behind his back or by setting it on fire than I did after 3 years of practice.

Hendrix was playing guitar for about 10 years before he got any real recognition. That gave him lots of time to get better learning from records and other performers. He also had abnormally large hands, which helps, but hey that's genetics!

To the main question. They were such amazing artists, and I agree they will go down in history, but there have been many other great musicians (none that recently however) that will stand the test of time. The fact that so many listen to many groups from fifty years ago is a testament to them all.

Believing they were better than you is what causes those feelings, they were professional musicians, it was what they were meant to do, and they worked really hard for it and got lucky along the way as well. Just because four guys could produce such great music doesn't make anyone a lesser person, they were just good at what they loved.

"Talent" isn't only something you're born with, it takes practice and dedication as well. You force yourself to do the things either because they're not your real passion, or they're difficult for now. But the more you do it the easier it gets, the less you have to force yourself, the more you enjoy it, the more you practice, the better you get! You just have to stay positive and stay at it.

Just because the Beatles were so amazing doesn't mean everyone should give up. Just have respect, be inspired, and have something to aspire to.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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19 November 2014
2.27am
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Sun King
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No!! If anything, they've inspired me massively. As great as they were, and I believe they are the most supremely talented popular musicians ever, they were at the end of the day four guys. That inspires the hell out of me. It gives you the attitude, if they could do it, why not me? Are you ever going to be as big as them, or as good? Chances are, very very unlikely. But why not have a go at it, eh?

I remember an interview with Paul from last year and someone asked him the question as to whether there would ever be another band like the Beatles. He said it would be unlikely, but there's no harm in trying. These guys pioneered and paved the way for future generations with their music. Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

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19 November 2014
2.45am
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Sun King said

No!! If anything, they've inspired me massively. As great as they were, and I believe they are the most supremely talented popular musicians ever, they were at the end of the day four guys. That inspires the hell out of me. It gives you the attitude, if they could do it, why not me? Are you ever going to be as big as them, or as good? Chances are, very very unlikely. But why not have a go at it, eh?

I remember an interview with Paul from last year and someone asked him the question as to whether there would ever be another band like the Beatles. He said it would be unlikely, but there's no harm in trying. These guys pioneered and paved the way for future generations with their music. Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

I remember watching something where Ringo got a similar question and he said it had to happen sometime. People used to say the same things about other musicians before The Beatles came along.

And I hope I'm personally involved somehow! a-hard-days-night-george-10 (chances once again slim but I can dream!)
I do feel like something's going to happen soon.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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19 November 2014
7.26am
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Oudis
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@SirHuddlestonFuddleston 

Dude, you don’t know which musician is going to survive. My guess is that the Beatles are, but it’s just a guess. Vivaldi was totally forgotten –although he had a huge impact on Bach– for two centuries; then somebody re-discovered him. Van Gogh killed himself and Gauguin died in syphilitic poverty being completely unknown to people. Kafka asked his best friend to burn his manuscripts –but he didn’t and now Kafka is one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. You just don’t know. Just like you I’m old, but I still compose songs, write stories, and now I’m trying my hand at painting. I don’t know if anybody will ever read (and like) what I’m writing, listen to and be moved by what I’m composing, look with astonished eyes at one of my paintings –but I keep on writing and composing and drawing. It’s a matter of faith. It has to do not with what others think of your work, but with who you are. Your essence. And many writers have written just one good story –but that one has been printed and re-printed over and over again. And they have elicited emotions in other people. That’s what you should care about. Art is not a competition. It’s a calling, a vocation. We write our letters and put them inside a bottle, and pray so that someone finds them and likes them. That’s all we can do.

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19 November 2014
12.58pm
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Starr Shine?
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Sun King said
]Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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19 November 2014
4.05pm
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Sun King
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Mr. Kite said

Sun King said

No!! If anything, they've inspired me massively. As great as they were, and I believe they are the most supremely talented popular musicians ever, they were at the end of the day four guys. That inspires the hell out of me. It gives you the attitude, if they could do it, why not me? Are you ever going to be as big as them, or as good? Chances are, very very unlikely. But why not have a go at it, eh?

I remember an interview with Paul from last year and someone asked him the question as to whether there would ever be another band like the Beatles. He said it would be unlikely, but there's no harm in trying. These guys pioneered and paved the way for future generations with their music. Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

I remember watching something where Ringo got a similar question and he said it had to happen sometime. People used to say the same things about other musicians before The Beatles came along.

And I hope I'm personally involved somehow! a-hard-days-night-george-10 (chances once again slim but I can dream!)
I do feel like something's going to happen soon.

@Mr. Kite Yes! I mean there has to be doesn't there? I just can't envision something like that not happening again, and it's been 50 years since they took over the world. That's a long time, something similar has to be coming soon.

I like you're ambition! a-hard-days-night-john-6 I took up the guitar about a year ago and me and my house mate from University are going to start a band in the next year, we want to be part of something like that also! I think the problem is that people don't have that ambition of wanting to be as big as the Beatles. Sure, it's very unlikely, but have a go at it!

Annadog40 said

Sun King said
]Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

True. But there's no harm in having a go, is it? People just need to have that ambition. I want to see rock and roll take over the world again! a-hard-days-night-george-10

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19 November 2014
9.03pm
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Necko
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You know, I'm not sure what my answer would be to the main question.  I would say that hearing a musician better than I am in general makes me want to give up.  That said, I never actually do, I just consider it.

 

It's funny.  I'm an English - Creative Writing major in college, and I more often experience this with writing.  I'll read a published author's work, think "God , this is great.  I can never top this," and be discouraged from writing.  Personally, I find that this happens more often with my writing than with my musical abilities.  Then again, I play music for fun, not as a potential career.

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20 November 2014
2.12am
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Sun King said

Mr. Kite said

I remember watching something where Ringo got a similar question and he said it had to happen sometime. People used to say the same things about other musicians before The Beatles came along.

And I hope I'm personally involved somehow! a-hard-days-night-george-10 (chances once again slim but I can dream!)
I do feel like something's going to happen soon.

@Mr. Kite Yes! I mean there has to be doesn't there? I just can't envision something like that not happening again, and it's been 50 years since they took over the world. That's a long time, something similar has to be coming soon.

I like you're ambition! a-hard-days-night-john-6 I took up the guitar about a year ago and me and my house mate from University are going to start a band in the next year, we want to be part of something like that also! I think the problem is that people don't have that ambition of wanting to be as big as the Beatles. Sure, it's very unlikely, but have a go at it!

It's not even wanting to be that big necessarily, it's just wanting to bring good music into the world again, it's been absent for too long!

To quote Jimi Hendrix in late 1967, "It seems to me like music goes in a big cycle, and it's coming back to more of a true form of music now. During a certain age, which was past not so long ago, they started getting really superficial and junky. [...] The idea is [...] to get as much of yourself into it as you can."

Right now music is mostly superficial and junky. No one is putting themselves into their art, they're just seeking a hit, playing it safe, which in today's music industry is a song with a bad computerized beat about booties. If it is a cycle, which I believe, then it's bound to change soon. Everyone's too afraid to experiment. Once people who can actually play their instruments and have real ideas and talent do something, it's going to take off... Hopefully.

Good luck with you and your band, @Sun King ! I like your ambition. a-hard-days-night-george-10 Keep me posted on that...

Annadog40 said

Sun King said
Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

I think about that too sometimes, if maybe I'm being too judgmental. But the music I happen to like was popular music at the time it was released, I know what the popular music of now is and dislike it. There may be good music now, but it needs to be searched for. Hopefully someone good will come along that will appeal to the masses once again.

This is also what worries me about the success of good artists though, as it's difficult for people who'd be fans to find them so they never gain momentum, this is why I hope someone somewhere can get over that obstacle bringing back real music.

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20 November 2014
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Mr. Kite said

Annadog40 said

Sun King said
Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

I think about that too sometimes, if maybe I'm being too judgmental. But the music I happen to like was popular music at the time it was released, I know what the popular music of now is and dislike it. There may be good music now, but it needs to be searched for. Hopefully someone good will come along that will appeal to the masses once again.

This is also what worries me about the success of good artists though, as it's difficult for people who'd be fans to find them so they never gain momentum, this is why I hope someone somewhere can get over that obstacle bringing back real music.

All music is real it just might not be to your taste. Who know rock might have had it's time as the world moves on to different genres like classical was big for a time but now it is pushed to the side.

And some music today is good and some is bad it just depends on your taste. And their was some good music on the pop charts so it is not that hard to find for me.

https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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20 November 2014
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I agree with what you're saying, I just have strong opinions about music and it's creation.

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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20 November 2014
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SirHuddlestonFuddleston asked

Do the Beatles make you want to give up?

Hell no. They make me want to live as long as possible. Why someone would want to compare themselves to someone else is lost on me. Millions do it. I refuse to. I do the best I can every day and that's good enough for me. Be happy in your own skin.

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20 November 2014
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Zig said

SirHuddlestonFuddleston asked

Do the Beatles make you want to give up?

Hell no. They make me want to live as long as possible. Why someone would want to compare themselves to someone else is lost on me. Millions do it. I refuse to. I do the best I can every day and that's good enough for me. Be happy in your own skin.

Very true.  I have to remember to do this with art.  I try to NOT compare myself to other artists and go "Well I may as well give up because I can't make art as well as this person."  Art is just expressing yourself.  It's taking an idea and making it something tangible, something people can experience and make them feel something?  I'm rambling, I hope y'all get what I'm trying to say here.  

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22 November 2014
9.11pm
SirHuddlestonFuddleston
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Oudis said
@SirHuddlestonFuddleston 

Dude, you don’t know which musician is going to survive. My guess is that the Beatles are, but it’s just a guess. Vivaldi was totally forgotten –although he had a huge impact on Bach– for two centuries; then somebody re-discovered him. Van Gogh killed himself and Gauguin died in syphilitic poverty being completely unknown to people. Kafka asked his best friend to burn his manuscripts –but he didn’t and now Kafka is one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. You just don’t know. Just like you I’m old, but I still compose songs, write stories, and now I’m trying my hand at painting. I don’t know if anybody will ever read (and like) what I’m writing, listen to and be moved by what I’m composing, look with astonished eyes at one of my paintings –but I keep on writing and composing and drawing. It’s a matter of faith. It has to do not with what others think of your work, but with who you are. Your essence. And many writers have written just one good story –but that one has been printed and re-printed over and over again. And they have elicited emotions in other people. That’s what you should care about. Art is not a competition. It’s a calling, a vocation. We write our letters and put them inside a bottle, and pray so that someone finds them and likes them. That’s all we can do.

You know, if you think about it, that's mostly incorrect. For very many artists, it's true, you don't know if their work will survive, and changes in fashion can mean that an artist is neglected in his/her lifetime and it's only later that people recognize their value, or vice versa. However, if you think about the very greatest works of genius which we have, only the very greatest -- The Iliad, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Muhammad Ali, T.S. Eliot, Einstein, the Beatles -- in every case, those works were acclaimed in the artist's lifetime and were cherished forever after. That's the point -- the Beatles, unlike most of their contemporaries and indeed all of popular music, were popularly and critically acclaimed, at their creation and ever since. That's why comparing oneself to the Beatles is so dispiriting. I mean, what's it like to walk around as Paul McCartney , to be able to say to yourself "I was the greatest creator of popular song in history, and the most famous and greatest popular musician of all time. I stand alone (with Lennon)." Wowza.

22 November 2014
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SirHuddlestonFuddleston said

Oudis said
@SirHuddlestonFuddleston 

Dude, you don’t know which musician is going to survive. My guess is that the Beatles are, but it’s just a guess. Vivaldi was totally forgotten –although he had a huge impact on Bach– for two centuries; then somebody re-discovered him. Van Gogh killed himself and Gauguin died in syphilitic poverty being completely unknown to people. Kafka asked his best friend to burn his manuscripts –but he didn’t and now Kafka is one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. You just don’t know. Just like you I’m old, but I still compose songs, write stories, and now I’m trying my hand at painting. I don’t know if anybody will ever read (and like) what I’m writing, listen to and be moved by what I’m composing, look with astonished eyes at one of my paintings –but I keep on writing and composing and drawing. It’s a matter of faith. It has to do not with what others think of your work, but with who you are. Your essence. And many writers have written just one good story –but that one has been printed and re-printed over and over again. And they have elicited emotions in other people. That’s what you should care about. Art is not a competition. It’s a calling, a vocation. We write our letters and put them inside a bottle, and pray so that someone finds them and likes them. That’s all we can do.

You know, if you think about it, that's mostly incorrect. For very many artists, it's true, you don't know if their work will survive, and changes in fashion can mean that an artist is neglected in his/her lifetime and it's only later that people recognize their value, or vice versa. However, if you think about the very greatest works of genius which we have, only the very greatest -- The Iliad, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Muhammad Ali, T.S. Eliot, Einstein, the Beatles -- in every case, those works were acclaimed in the artist's lifetime and were cherished forever after. That's the point -- the Beatles, unlike most of their contemporaries and indeed all of popular music, were popularly and critically acclaimed, at their creation and ever since. That's why comparing oneself to the Beatles is so dispiriting. I mean, what's it like to walk around as Paul McCartney , to be able to say to yourself "I was the greatest creator of popular song in history, and the most famous and greatest popular musician of all time. I stand alone (with Lennon)." Wowza.

Maybe Paul watches 'Give My Regards To Broad Street ' ever Saturday night to bring him down to earth - or keeps a picture of One-Legged Mucca in his bathroom cabinets to remind him that not everything he has done (nudge, nudge) was great.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

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23 November 2014
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SirHuddlestonFuddleston said

Oudis said
@SirHuddlestonFuddleston 

Dude, you don’t know which musician is going to survive. My guess is that the Beatles are, but it’s just a guess. Vivaldi was totally forgotten –although he had a huge impact on Bach– for two centuries; then somebody re-discovered him. Van Gogh killed himself and Gauguin died in syphilitic poverty being completely unknown to people. Kafka asked his best friend to burn his manuscripts –but he didn’t and now Kafka is one of the most influential writers of the twentieth century. You just don’t know. Just like you I’m old, but I still compose songs, write stories, and now I’m trying my hand at painting. I don’t know if anybody will ever read (and like) what I’m writing, listen to and be moved by what I’m composing, look with astonished eyes at one of my paintings –but I keep on writing and composing and drawing. It’s a matter of faith. It has to do not with what others think of your work, but with who you are. Your essence. And many writers have written just one good story –but that one has been printed and re-printed over and over again. And they have elicited emotions in other people. That’s what you should care about. Art is not a competition. It’s a calling, a vocation. We write our letters and put them inside a bottle, and pray so that someone finds them and likes them. That’s all we can do.

You know, if you think about it, that's mostly incorrect. For very many artists, it's true, you don't know if their work will survive, and changes in fashion can mean that an artist is neglected in his/her lifetime and it's only later that people recognize their value, or vice versa. However, if you think about the very greatest works of genius which we have, only the very greatest -- The Iliad, Shakespeare, Tolstoy, Michelangelo, Beethoven, Rembrandt, Muhammad Ali, T.S. Eliot, Einstein, the Beatles -- in every case, those works were acclaimed in the artist's lifetime and were cherished forever after. That's the point -- the Beatles, unlike most of their contemporaries and indeed all of popular music, were popularly and critically acclaimed, at their creation and ever since. That's why comparing oneself to the Beatles is so dispiriting. I mean, what's it like to walk around as Paul McCartney , to be able to say to yourself "I was the greatest creator of popular song in history, and the most famous and greatest popular musician of all time. I stand alone (with Lennon)." Wowza.

Well… I was just trying to encourage you, to send you some positive vibrations so that you didn’t give up, by giving you examples of artists who didn’t make it when they were alive but whose oeuvre had survived them. But if you want to compare yourself with Paul McCartney , William Shakespeare, Lev Tolstoy, Michelangelo Buonarroti, Ludwig Van Beethoven, Rembrandt van Rijn, and Thomas Stearns Eliot, that’s up to you. The result might be feelings of impotence and frustration, and you might end up throwing in the towel. It’s your call. It’s not my life, we all make our choices. Good luck.

Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)

23 November 2014
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Annadog40 said

Mr. Kite said

Annadog40 said

Sun King said
Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

I think about that too sometimes, if maybe I'm being too judgmental. But the music I happen to like was popular music at the time it was released, I know what the popular music of now is and dislike it. There may be good music now, but it needs to be searched for. Hopefully someone good will come along that will appeal to the masses once again.

This is also what worries me about the success of good artists though, as it's difficult for people who'd be fans to find them so they never gain momentum, this is why I hope someone somewhere can get over that obstacle bringing back real music.

All music is real it just might not be to your taste. Who know rock might have had it's time as the world moves on to different genres like classical was big for a time but now it is pushed to the side.

And some music today is good and some is bad it just depends on your taste. And their was some good music on the pop charts so it is not that hard to find for me.

I agree that we seem to be in a "bad" period now. Actually, I think the period we're in right now is very similar to what the music world was like just before the Beatles came on the scene: there's a "studio system" in which a producer will find a fresh young face, doesn't matter whether he/she can sing. We'll have writers write hit songs for them, produce the hell out of it (nowaways, with autotune, nobody actually needs to sound good, even), team the kid with a bunch of dancers and a choreographer, and watch the money come in.

That's what the music biz was like before the Beatles. They changed all that -- for about 40 years. Now we're back in the studio system, waiting for a bunch of geniuses who will refuse to take the money and sell out by doing "How Do You Do It " instead of "Love Me Do ."

23 November 2014
9.30pm
SirHuddlestonFuddleston
St Peters Church
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SirHuddlestonFuddleston said

Annadog40 said

Mr. Kite said

Annadog40 said

Sun King said
Society needs another band like them, and I believe there will be soon. 

 

It could already be there but since the Beatles started out as a Teen act a lot of the forum might dismiss them

I think about that too sometimes, if maybe I'm being too judgmental. But the music I happen to like was popular music at the time it was released, I know what the popular music of now is and dislike it. There may be good music now, but it needs to be searched for. Hopefully someone good will come along that will appeal to the masses once again.

This is also what worries me about the success of good artists though, as it's difficult for people who'd be fans to find them so they never gain momentum, this is why I hope someone somewhere can get over that obstacle bringing back real music.

All music is real it just might not be to your taste. Who know rock might have had it's time as the world moves on to different genres like classical was big for a time but now it is pushed to the side.

And some music today is good and some is bad it just depends on your taste. And their was some good music on the pop charts so it is not that hard to find for me.

I agree that we seem to be in a "bad" period now. Actually, I think the period we're in right now is very similar to what the music world was like just before the Beatles came on the scene: there's a "studio system" in which a producer will find a fresh young face, doesn't matter whether he/she can sing. We'll have writers write hit songs for them, produce the hell out of it (nowaways, with autotune, nobody actually needs to sound good, even), team the kid with a bunch of dancers and a choreographer, and watch the money come in.

That's what the music biz was like before the Beatles. They changed all that -- for about 40 years. Now we're back in the studio system, waiting for a bunch of geniuses who will refuse to take the money and sell out by doing "How Do You Do It " instead of "Love Me Do ."

To quote Woody (replying to Annie Hall asking him "You think you're God ?"): "Well I have to model myself after somebody!" Yeah, man, it's because in many way I think I'm superior to Lennon and McCartney -- just not in as a creative artist. But I recognize that creative artists are the only ones who will be remembered. So whaddaya gonna do? For one thing, I wish I had tried harder when I was younger.

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