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Beatles discussed follow up to Abbey Road (Sept 8 1969 tape)
11 September 2019
3.22am
Wigwam
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Not sure right thread but.........Better than where i posted it it first time.

Wow this is interesting..What do you think?

It's mark Lewisohn....Which is practically the word of The Almighty 

https://www.theguardian.com/mu.....rnsey-road'

 

If I was still in the Uk I'd pay a fortune for a ticket to his lecture.....Hope he films it.

 

Mod note (22/09/19): Posts 1-6 and 8 were in the '"Abbey Road ' 50th Anniversary" thread. Posts 7 and 9 were in a thread entitled "Sept 8 1969 tape - Guardian Article Sept 11 2019". Posts 10-12 were in a thread entitled "Beatles discussed follow up to Abbey Road ". 

11 September 2019
5.07am
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The Hole Got Fixed
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That link isn't working for me @Wigwam_1

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

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11 September 2019
5.31am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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I think this is the link: Link

The one he posted here

By the way, it's so interesting to know that John wanted to include equal number of George's songs...and that comment about Maxwell silver's hammer... so spot on. I then wonder why they refused so many George's songs for the Leti it be project. 

Wonder what happened finally that turned it out completely different as John intended

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"I Need You by George Harrison"

11 September 2019
6.33am
Wigwam
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Thanks so much for adjusting the link.....I'd copied and pasted from the other less relevant thread......

You'll recall that 'Let it Be' predates this discussion.......Even though it was released later.

I thought what was especially interesting was John's suggestion that the songs could be credited individually .........Instead of Lennon McCartney.......Whoever writes it gets sole credit..........

Quite a turn-up.

11 September 2019
8.49am
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Shamrock Womlbs
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Wigwam said
 

You'll recall that 'Let it Be' predates this discussion.......Even though it was released later.

  

Yeah, right. But i thought that was an idea that doesn't come overnight.

Where did Mark get that tape? is there any transcription of the whole conversation?

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11 September 2019
12.27pm
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Ron Nasty
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While it does seem a remarkable tape, and so far as I know not in general circulation, it should also be noted it took place on the 8 September, days before John and the Plastic Ono Band performed in Toronto, which led to John declaring on 20 September at another Beatles meeting at Savile Row that he was leaving the group and wanted a "divorce". It would be more surprising had it been after the 20th.

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12 September 2019
7.50am
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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@Ron Nasty

Someone just sent me this

https://www.theguardian.com/mu.....rnsey-road

Seems to turn Beatle lore on its head. Had anyone heard this tape before? Why not?

Lots to discuss for the devoted Beatles fan!

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12 September 2019
9.04am
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SunKing
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I would also imagine that, as with many relationships toward the end, there are moments of vacillating and perhaps this was a moment where he thought that a more democratically aligned album acknowledging the songwriting reality would be a viable path forward.  It's kind of a delicious 'what might have been' exercise to think on this.

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12 September 2019
10.21am
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Ahhh Girl
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@Ron Nasty commented on this article here https://www.beatlesbible.com/f.....4/#p333332

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21 September 2019
10.09pm
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Expert Textpert
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Apologies if there is already a thread, but The Beatles were planning a new album after Abbey Road , and John was all on board for it and apparently hadn’t left the band.

https://www.rollingstone.com/m.....IkZszL2nWI

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21 September 2019
10.22pm
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Ron Nasty
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Into the Sky with Diamonds started this thread, @Expert Textpert, and it was already being discussed here.

My comment on it is part of the discussion that was already discussing it.

Perhaps a mod clean-up of these threads should be made so there's one thread instead of three (or possibly four since Wigwam says he had already posted it in another thread).

It might be an idea to bring it all together in its own thread.

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21 September 2019
10.33pm
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I think it deserves its own thread. It shouldn’t be buried where people won’t see it.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

22 September 2019
8.22am
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To me this is interesting because only 12 days before he announced his departure, John was all on board.

Which looks to me like Paul broke up the band because he didn’t want to give George equal billing...which means, if it’s true, that he has been lying.

It would certainly explain why the other three were so pissed off at him.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

22 September 2019
6.21pm
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Ron Nasty
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I don't think it does show John was fully committed to the future of the band just twelve days before he announced his departure, and I certainly think Mark Lewisohn's line about it changing everything we know is overblown hype.

I have always regarded the view that they went into the Abbey Road  sessions knowing it would be their last album more of a retrospective view than the actuality.

Yeah, they knew they were in trouble, but as Paul has often said, and I paraphrase, "There wasn't a moment where we went, 'Right, lads, last take on our last album'."

I tend to agree with SunKing's comment that toward the end of a relationship people will often try and find ways to keep it together before finally admitting it's over. It's like the disintegrating couple who decide having a baby will make everything right again, only to realise it wouldn't.

It's just that John realised/remembered on the trip to Toronto for the Rock and Roll Revival concert that making music was fun, enjoyable, and that being a Beatle no longer was.

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23 September 2019
10.31am
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meanmistermustard
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Expert Textpert said
To me this is interesting because only 12 days before he announced his departure, John was all on board.

Which looks to me like Paul broke up the band because he didn’t want to give George equal billing...which means, if it’s true, that he has been lying.

It would certainly explain why the other three were so pissed off at him.

  

It is a very simplistic view to say that the Beatles split because Paul not giving George the same billing as John and himself. Klein and all that was going on at Apple was a massive issue between them and shouldn't be ignored or underplayed, and then there is what Ron said above about John. 

In truth, it still stands that the Beatles were coming to an end and whilst they might have discussed various ideas for what to do next, the time was up on the band.  There were so many issues going on, all differing in size, that when put together results in the split. 

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26 September 2019
2.30pm
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I disagree. It shows that John still wanted another album and was willing to work through the differences. Paul apparently wasn’t.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

27 September 2019
5.57pm
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Ron Nasty
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But during the 20 September meeting, @Expert Textpert all accounts agree that Paul was talking future plans, to which John responded, along the lines of, "I think you're daft. I'm leaving the group. I want a divorce like I got from Cyn." Admitted, Paul was again talking about performing live (maybe thinking John would be more open to the idea after his Toronto experience), but I would imagine that would have involved a new album along the way.

After all, quitting touring in 1966 to become a studio band made sense at the time, but quitting the studio to become a road band doesn't make sense in any circumstance; ergo, Paul hadn't discounted another album on 20 September. John had.

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30 September 2019
5.40pm
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Maybe he thought Paul was daft because Paul couldn’t see that John wasn’t in anymore if George didn’t get equal billing.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

10 October 2019
10.18am
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Richard
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There's a video by John Heaton on this subject. He reads a passage from the book 'John Lennon : One Day at a Time' by Anthony Fawcett, who was John's personal assistant at the time:

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11 October 2019
9.28am
The Blue Meanie
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Paul didn't disagree with George getting an equal amount of songs on the potential new record, if I remember correctly. He merely stated that he didn't think George's songs were as good as his or John's before that point?

 

I was lucky enough to go to Mark Lewisohn's Hornsby Road tour in Liverpool (in the Epstein theatre no less!) It was excellent. Highlights for me were him having researched the real life Mr Mustard and he also showed the photo of the non Beatle Abbey Road cover test shot.

 

Edit: with regards to John changing his mind on doing another album my impression is it's partly down to him suggesting Cold Turkey as The Beatles' next single for Christmas*. He did this in the meeting that was recorded for Ringo's benefit as he was in hospital. The others didn't think it sat well as a Beatles release so he decided to release it himself under the Plastic Ono Band and then probably thought to himself "do I really need those other guys? I can do this myself". Plus of course we went off to Toronto to perform

 

*Cold Turkey at Christmas is pretty appropriate when you think about it!!

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