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27 February 2013
10.44pm
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Beatlebob63
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This whole thread is becoming more interesting by the day, starting with Paul's guitar solo talents to George not measuring up against Claption's to Ringo's drummer, don't even get me started with that.  I love Ringo but he was so weak and small that Geoff Emerick has to mic's underneath the skins around 63 because he couldn't get Ringo to hit them hard enough.  Good for the intricate fills he needed to do with the unusual beats John and Paul demanded, for THAT he was great.  Drumming though, same analogy as below, no Bonham, no Moon, maybe Henley...maybe...

I don't think anyone can compare Clapton to ANYONE.  At least not in our lifetime, Hendrix and Page, that's it. I consider those three guys equal.

George was the best fit for Beatles music which is the BEST music in my lifetime.  And as for Paul, guys I'm not ever going to try to take any of his natural abilities of greatness to play any instrument, any day, any year, at any age he was, I just think he was the BEST Bass Player.  Some would argue that John Entwistle was better than him so on and so forth, it's subjective.  Because McCartney was in the best Show on the earth while it lasted, he gets my vote.  I just don't think he was the best electric guitar lead guitarist in any group let alone the The Fabs.  George was better lead.  Why do you think he looked up Denny Laine and Henry McCollough?  C'mon guys..Listen to McCartney(solo album).  Had he done that for 10 years, he would not have been the hit machine in the 70's that Phil Collins was in the 80's.

I respect the fact that the Pro-Lewisohn's out there think I'm wrong about the opening to TTR, I know it's Lennon, it's a Fender Ventura, I know guitars, I play them, McCartney is not playing a Fender Ventura in that song on lead and he wasn't double tracked, Lennon and George were and

this article I find illustrates a good point, Paul initially had to play bass with the drum track so it would've not been possible for him to play the lick.  Interestingly enough they call it a Strat, it's still a Ventura and I'll show you guys that section of Beatle Gear with him playing it.

Lewisohn 'suggested' after he wrote his book that TTR 'may have' had some layered guitar work in there(per interview) after the several initial tracks were laid down which suggests and in reality that the song took WAY longer than it should have and THEY ALL played on it in several capacities.  Lennon thought the song was one of his best,THE only heavy metal song out at the time behind all the 'crap' that was released in '65 from the rest of the artists out there that year.  He said that in '80 but you probably already know that.

Instrumentation:

  • John Lennon - Lead Vocals, Rhythm Guitar (1964 Rickenbacker 325-12) 1961 Sonic Blue Fender Stratocaster
  • Paul McCartney - Bass Guitar (1963 Hofner 500/1), Lead Guitar (1962 Epiphone Casino ES-230TD), Harmony Vocals
  • George Harrison – Lead and Rhythm Guitar (1963 Rickenbacker 360-12 Fire-Glo)
  • Ringo Starr –  Drums (1964 Ludwig Super Classic Black Oyster Pearl), tambourine, handclaps
27 February 2013
11.20pm
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Beatlebob63 said

George was better lead.  Why do you think he looked up Denny Laine and Henry McCollough?  C'mon guys..Listen to McCartney(solo album).  Had he done that for 10 years, he would not have been the hit machine in the 70's that Phil Collins was in the 80's.

Although I agree wholeheartedly that George was a better guitarist than Paul, I'd also like to point out that Paul played the absolute majority of the lead guitar on Band On The Run , his most successful and acclaimed album and the one that kick-started his status as a 70s "hit machine."

 

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

28 February 2013
12.19am
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Long John Silver
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Beatlebob63 said
This whole thread is becoming more interesting by the day, starting with Paul's guitar solo talents to George not measuring up against Claption's to Ringo's drummer, don't even get me started with that.  I love Ringo but he was so weak and small that Geoff Emerick has to mic's underneath the skins around 63 because he couldn't get Ringo to hit them hard enough.  Good for the intricate fills he needed to do with the unusual beats John and Paul demanded, for THAT he was great.  Drumming though, same analogy as below, no Bonham, no Moon, maybe Henley...maybe...

I don't think anyone can compare Clapton to ANYONE.  At least not in our lifetime, Hendrix and Page, that's it. I consider those three guys equal.

George was the best fit for Beatles music which is the BEST music in my lifetime.  And as for Paul, guys I'm not ever going to try to take any of his natural abilities of greatness to play any instrument, any day, any year, at any age he was, I just think he was the BEST Bass Player.  Some would argue that John Entwistle was better than him so on and so forth, it's subjective.  Because McCartney was in the best Show on the earth while it lasted, he gets my vote.  I just don't think he was the best electric guitar lead guitarist in any group let alone the The Fabs.  George was better lead.  Why do you think he looked up Denny Laine and Henry McCollough?  C'mon guys..Listen to McCartney(solo album).  Had he done that for 10 years, he would not have been the hit machine in the 70's that Phil Collins was in the 80's.

I respect the fact that the Pro-Lewisohn's out there think I'm wrong about the opening to TTR, I know it's Lennon, it's a Fender Ventura, I know guitars, I play them, McCartney is not playing a Fender Ventura in that song on lead and he wasn't double tracked, Lennon and George were and

this article I find illustrates a good point, Paul initially had to play bass with the drum track so it would've not been possible for him to play the lick.  Interestingly enough they call it a Strat, it's still a Ventura and I'll show you guys that section of Beatle Gear with him playing it.

Lewisohn 'suggested' after he wrote his book that TTR 'may have' had some layered guitar work in there(per interview) after the several initial tracks were laid down which suggests and in reality that the song took WAY longer than it should have and THEY ALL played on it in several capacities.  Lennon thought the song was one of his best,THE only heavy metal song out at the time behind all the 'crap' that was released in '65 from the rest of the artists out there that year.  He said that in '80 but you probably already know that.

Instrumentation:

    • John Lennon - Lead Vocals, Rhythm Guitar (1964 Rickenbacker 325-12) 1961 Sonic Blue Fender Stratocaster
      • Paul McCartney - Bass Guitar (1963 Hofner 500/1), Lead Guitar (1962 Epiphone Casino ES-230TD), Harmony Vocals
          • Ringo Starr –  Drums (1964 Ludwig Super Classic Black Oyster Pearl), tambourine, handclaps

          I think you need to face the fact that here John gets least love, at least that's my impression. He couldn't workout the idea of adding bells and other sound effects  to song, he couldn't sing ahhs part in ADTL, that he was crappy guitar player etc... for that matter, I think I haven't seen a Lennon fan here.

          Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

          28 February 2013
          12.56am
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          Ron Nasty
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          Long John Silver said

          I think you need to face the fact that here John gets least love, at least that's my impression. He couldn't workout the idea of adding bells and other sound effects  to song, he couldn't sing ahhs part in ADTL, that he was crappy guitar player etc... for that matter, I think I haven't seen a Lennon fan here.

          Hate to disagree but I'm a John fan, and I'll John when I think John, and often do. For me, it's John, Paul, George and Ringo. They got that bit dead right. I just haven't seen anything that convinces me that all those years of them saying "Oh, Paul played lead on this one" meant "Oh, Paul played some of the lead on this one".

          "I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

           

          The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

          28 February 2013
          11.31am
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          meanmistermustard
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          John's rhythm guitar playing is fantastic (listen to And I Love Her or All My Loving ) and his lead on You Cant Do That is brilliant for the song.

          This beatle bashing as musicians irritates me tremendously, George was no Eric, Jimmi, whatever, sorry, Ringo wouldnt sit on the same podium as Keith Moone, Paul couldnt play the trumpet as well as my two year old, i dont give a shit. Its about what the musician brings to the performance not whether or not they can play better than x, y or z. Keith Moone was a brilliant drummer but would have been shit for the Beatles, same for Mr Watt in the Stones.

          "I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

          "Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

          28 February 2013
          8.43pm
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          Beatlebob63
          St Peters Church
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          Ok, Ok, Mean Mr. Mustard is right...no more bashing...we weren't,,this is great...I'll see you guys on another thread I hope...this one is exhausted I think.  lol...

          28 February 2013
          9.19pm
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          Long John Silver
          Paris Olympia
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          http://www.guitarnews.it/blog/.....h-version/

           

          About John's stratocaster. if anyone is interested.

          Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

          1 March 2013
          1.03am
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          Into the Sky with Diamonds
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          Great link, Long John Silver.

          I had no idea Lennon had ever used a Strat. I wonder if Fender even knew.

          Interesting color.... I suppose, if the story is true, that perhaps that was the only color the store had 2 of.

          Mind you, Steve Winwood seems to have always used a powder blue Strat.

          "Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

          1 March 2013
          1.52am
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          Long John Silver
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          Cheers Into the Sky with Diamonds, hope you liked it.

           

          Yeah it is interesting colour, but not sure why he didn't he used it more, or  maybe he wasn't satisfied with it?

          Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

          1 March 2013
          6.24am
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          RunForYourLife
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          There's an outtake from Rubber Soul where he describes it as "heavy" but I believe he's referring to the sound, and not the actual weight, as I have a Strat, and it's not particularly heavy.

           

          I know that they avoided Strats for a while because they didn't want to be compared to The Shadows.

          1 March 2013
          5.00pm
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          vonbontee
          Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
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          Are you sure he wasn't referring to the literal weight of the Strat? I'm not sure if "heavy" was being used to describe a guitar tone in 1965. And John wasn't exactly buff, so any excess weight might've been too much!

          (On the other hand, who knows? Maybe John himself was actually one of the pioneers in describing a guitar tone as heavy? This would certainly reinforce his contention that TTR was one of the first heavy metal records! A designation that's always left me pretty baffled, I have to say.)

          Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                               Von-Bontee-2017.png

          1 March 2013
          5.22pm
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          Beatlebob63
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          Great link on the blue Strat, I agree..... That's the one John used to play the opening chime to TTR, I listed credits for the song instrumentation somewhere up there in a thread.  This is cool link. I agree, I think he was referring to the sound as well being 'heavy' on the Strat, not the weight as you guys mentioned, absolutely agree.  That's why he considered that song(even in '80) the bomb, the first heavy metal effort from anyone.  That's true.  Great picture of him and Paul.  He gave away the Fender after Help .  Fender was trying to land him(and them) but Lennon didn't bite.

           

           

          1 March 2013
          5.29pm
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          RunForYourLife
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          Here is the outtake in question...

          http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Ebmn0t2lWX

          On second thought, he could be referring to the weight, as he was used to his tiny, hollow Rickenbacker. This is also purported to be an outtake from "In My Life " which isn't a very "heavy" song.

           

          As for "Ticket To Ride ", he also claimed that the mix didn't do the song justice, and that it sounded "heavier" when they recorded it. I don't know if "heavy metal" would be the right term to use, but there is a sort of a big, "heavy", droning sound to it.

          1 March 2013
          5.59pm
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          Ron Nasty
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          They often spoke of how British "cutters" had problems with the bass end that American "cutters" could get. A "cutter" was the person who transferred the master tape to the metal disc the records were cut from. It was not until fellow Liverpudlian George Peckham (aka "Porky") started cutting their discs that they got the bass end they were searching for. They loved him so much they took him to Apple, and he went on to become a legend when he started carving little messages into the discs. A fascinating character who started out in a Merseybeat band before becoming a "cutting engineer", but I can't remember which. His run-out grooves on vinyl are the stuff as legend, as he started doing them on the late-60s and went on into the 80s. For those of us a certain age, and living in the UK, "A Porky Prime Cut" always excited!

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          "I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

           

          The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

          3 March 2013
          5.23pm
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          Long John Silver
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          Beatlebob63 said
           He gave away the Fender after Help .  Fender was trying to land him(and them) but Lennon didn't bite.

           

           

          But isn't Fender considered a lot better guitar than Epiphone?

          Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

          3 March 2013
          11.25pm
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          RunForYourLife
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          McCartney played lead on "Paperback Writer " because they liked how his Casino distorted. I assume that this was the impetus for Lennon and Harrison to acquire theirs.

          16 December 2014
          1.37pm
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          meanmistermustard
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          I'm puzzled by my reactions to this song. Every time i know its coming on i think i'm tired of it yet as soon as the opening guitars and drums kick in that all vanishes and its a really really strong track. I wonder where that comes from. 

           

          Out of interest if she doesn't care she's got a Ticket To Ride why is John sad she is going away as surely she wont be. Surely if she wanted to get away she would care that she had a ticket to do so so she could otherwise she couldn't. 

          "I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

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          16 December 2014
          4.14pm
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          Zig
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          meanmistermustard said

          1 - I'm puzzled by my reactions to this song. Every time i know its coming on i think i'm tired of it yet as soon as the opening guitars and drums kick in that all vanishes and its a really really strong track. I wonder where that comes from. 

           

          2- Out of interest if she doesn't care she's got a Ticket To Ride why is John sad she is going away as surely she wont be. Surely if she wanted to get away she would care that she had a ticket to do so so she could otherwise she couldn't. 

          1 - I am filled with excited anticipation of this song as soon as I start the album. a-hard-days-night-john-3
          2 - Huh? a-hard-days-night-ringo-7

          To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

          16 December 2014
          4.16pm
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          Starr Shine?
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          meanmistermustard said

           
          Out of interest if she doesn't care she's got a Ticket To Ride why is John sad she is going away as surely she wont be. Surely if she wanted to get away she would care that she had a ticket to do so so she could otherwise she couldn't. 

          I remember watching an interview where someone asked Paul about that. I don't remember what he said though.

          https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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          17 December 2014
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          Mr. Kite
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          meanmistermustard said

          Out of interest if she doesn't care she's got a Ticket To Ride why is John sad she is going away as surely she wont be. Surely if she wanted to get away she would care that she had a ticket to do so so she could otherwise she couldn't. 

          She's got a Ticket To Ride and she don't care [about leaving John].

          If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

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