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Should "Free as a Bird" and "Real Love" count as canon Beatles Songs?
14 July 2015
4.30am
Wigwam
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I have a great book I bought in '87 by WV Quine Called an intermittently philosophical dictionary.......

 

 He states that Every 'Truth' has to be examined.

"Philosophy books tell us the nature of 'truth' is subject to two opposing doctrines....coherence theory and correspondence theory. But neither theory plainly stated can be taken seriously. 'Coherence theory' posits that truths qualify as such by all hanging together in a logically consistent system. 'Correspondence theory' would have it that they qualify as true by corresponding to reality.

 

The coherence theory....seems to rest on an irrational rationalism........ the absurd idea that the infinite totality of possible statement admits of only one overall distribution of yesses and noes that is logically consistent. It makes no demands upon observation or experiment.' Webster says so.......others say so.....so must be true. 'It becomes a dummy doctrine..a straw man or whipping boy.

 

While correspondence theory is vague or vacuous. What on the part of true sentences is meant to correspond to what on the part of reality? If we seek a correspondence word by word , we find ourselves eking reality out with a complement of abstract objects fabricated for the sake of the correspondence. Or perhaps we settle for a correspondence of whole sentences with facts...: a sentence is true if it reports a fact. But here again we have fabricated substance  for an empty doctrine. The world is full of things variously related, but what in addition to all that, are facts? They are projected from true sentences for the sake of correspondence."   

 

So you see Ron it can't be said any simpler than that.......!!!!

 

Actually in his way and within it's limitations......... I think Marcus Aurelius said it better.

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14 July 2015
7.45am
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meanmistermustard
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I suppose the big question is any of this real or it is just someone's imagination that we are all bit part players, no more or less than some things play toys pulled out when it feels it is time? What actually happens when we go to sleep or we are not there to really see what is going on? Can we even believe what we do see? And thats even before we put our own thoughts on the matters in hand?

Is nothing real? Is everything? 

Does any of this really matter?

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

14 July 2015
11.16pm
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Matt Busby
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Ron Nasty said
Sadly, Neil is no longer with us. However, while he was... He obviously had a voice that was listened to. The whole Anthology project was built on his early '70s documentary project The Long And Winding Road . He was also the person employed by them for the longest amount of time, and among their closest confidants, he could only ever suggest things. The actual decisions were made by John, Paul, George and Ringo, and - as we lost two of those - their roles were replaced by Yoko (who many would argue replaced John in dealing with Apple business long before John's death) and Olivia. Neil was a trusted advisor, the most trusted advisor, and the most loyal servant The Beatles ever had, often the bridge between fractious relationships, but as to decisions, while he was listened to, they belonged (and belong) to the four owners of Apple.

I knew Neil was a very important person to the Beatles - thanks for enumerating his place in all of it. I knew he was instrumental in the Anthology project, and was their trusted roadie and buddy for the entire life of the band and after, and just today had read something about "Neil Aspinall, president of Apple..." and assumed it was current. It must have been either written in the past or been referring to the past and I missed it. And from what you say, while Neil was president, the 4 were the board of directors and majority shareholders so they really made the decisions. Neil would certainly have had respected input, but in the end the owners make the decisions in a closely held corporation which I'm assuming Apple is (or the british equivalent). There I assumed once earlier and did the usual, now I've made another assumtion. Have I made another ass of us? 😉

Half of what I say is meaningless...

I feel good in a special way, I'm in love and it's a sunny day

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15 July 2015
7.50am
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Bongo
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meanmistermustard said
I suppose the big question is any of this real or it is just someone's imagination that we are all bit part players, no more or less than some things play toys pulled out when it feels it is time? What actually happens when we go to sleep or we are not there to really see what is going on? Can we even believe what we do see? And thats even before we put our own thoughts on the matters in hand?

Is nothing real? Is everything? 

Does any of this really matter?

Is there another Planet (Earth) out there somewhere????a-hard-days-night-paul-7

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk38/rickdelsie/The%20Beatles/parlunread_zps28270d9d.gif BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

15 July 2015
8.45am
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Zig
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Some very good points on both sides up above. I am not trying to change anyone's mind. Rather, I only explain why I believe these songs are part of the canon.

It has absolutely nothing to do with not being able to let the Beatles go. I know they broke up. So did Crosby Stills & Nash...several times. Yet, each time they got back together as CS&N (sometimes Y) and recorded new material, they added to their canon. Matt Busby reminded me via PM that Squeeze is another example. When Paul, George and Ringo got together and recorded these songs written by John, they released them as The Beatles - not by any other name - plain and simple. Therefore, they will be part of the canon in my mind. If they are not so in your mind, that is your perogative and I respect that.
apple01

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To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

16 July 2015
9.13pm
Wigwam
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Well here's something I hadn't seen before......

 

Just interesting to hear how Paul and George differed over this one...............

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17 July 2015
4.17pm
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Into the Sky with Diamonds
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I'm with George on this one.

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

17 July 2015
4.24pm
castironshore
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I think it's a beauty....almost reminiscent of neil young at his best.

'Real Love ' is a great song as well by the way, plenty of beatle magic exists with it and absolutely it belongs in the 'canon'

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3 October 2015
2.47pm
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Zig
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A cool canon page I stumbled across. Sorry if it's been posted before.

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Wigwam

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4 October 2015
8.30am
Wigwam
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Not a very good list.........It includes FAAB and Real Love as canon.........Which we know is impossible.

To make my point........... I bet those two songs are not on the New 1 album released on the 6th November. 

4 October 2015
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meanmistermustard
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Wigwam said
Not a very good list.........It includes FAAB and Real Love as canon.........Which we know is impossible.

To make my point........... I bet those two songs are not on the New 1 album released on the 6th November. 

They're not as they didnt reach number 1 - but they are on the second disc of the dvd/blu-ray. a-hard-days-night-john-6

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4 October 2015
10.31am
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Bongo
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Wigwam said
Not a very good list.........It includes FAAB and Real Love as canon.........Which we know is impossible.

Canon, Catalogue, what’s the diff???  If the Beatles released it, it’s canon.   a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

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Wigwam

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk38/rickdelsie/The%20Beatles/parlunread_zps28270d9d.gif BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

4 October 2015
9.52pm
Wigwam
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Bongo said

Wigwam said
Not a very good list.........It includes FAAB and Real Love as canon.........Which we know is impossible.

Canon, Catalogue, what’s the diff???  If the Beatles released it, it’s canon.   a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

Aaahaa!

You might well think so young Bongo.

 

OK, all the Beatles appeared on the tracks......(Though they don't on say say Ballad of John and Yoko).

They are credited to Lennon and McCartney.......Released on the Apple label as The Beatles.......They appear now 2 Beatles Albums.........They appear on Zig's list as canon.........

 

But they are not canon.............Read through all of the above and see how Zig and I and others were bushwhacked and shot by the mean and nasty axis of 'Mean and Nasty"

But please Bongo don't start it all up again..........I mentioned it but I think I got a way with it.

 

5555

  

4 October 2015
9.59pm
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trcanberra
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^ Ha ha indeed.

And as mentioned in the "What you're listening to now" thread this argument pales into insignificance compared with the hijinks Queen got up to after Freddie died.

So - the folks who don't think they are Canon - are you going to boycott the new release in protest?  🙂

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5 October 2015
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meanmistermustard
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Protest over what?

Its nice to see folk still ignoring our points against. apple01 

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5 October 2015
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trcanberra
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meanmistermustard said
Protest over what?

Protest over Apple having the temerity to place non-Canon songs on yet another official release and thereby give us loons who think they are Canon more ammunition for the argument.

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

5 October 2015
4.35am
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meanmistermustard
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They're official songs so why shouldnt they be on another official release? Doesn't change anything.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

5 October 2015
5.09am
Wigwam
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meanmistermustard said
Protest over what?

Its nice to see folk still ignoring our points against. apple01 

Yes pure ignorance!!

5 October 2015
5.12am
Wigwam
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meanmistermustard said
Protest over what?

Its nice to see folk still ignoring our points against. apple01 

Not ignoring......just a different perspective meaning this 'folk' don't accept your points.

But glad you think that's nice.

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SatanHimself said
Free As A Bird and Real Love should not be considered canon.  They have never been released in any form other than on the anthologies and on their respective singles, and they weren't included as any part of the 2009 remasters.

They are best left as curiosities.

And now they will be in 'another form' - does this invalidate your argument??

Just curious.

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