Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

9   +   1   =  
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
I'm Looking Through You
sp_BlogLink Read the original blog post
14 December 2019
1.27pm
Avatar
BeatOfTheBrass
The Kaiserkeller
Members
Forum Posts: 49
Member Since:
12 December 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Everyone (now) may think the "false start" left on the North American release wasn't to be intended...but: that doesn't change the fact that it had already gotten to the final mixdown stage before someone decided it didn't "belong" all of a sudden.

Why would it be made into a contentious point to even complain about(?)  It's a charming, little nuance captured on record which embellishes the organic feel the music-making process is.

https://vimeo.com/337940549

I will play the game Existence to the End ;)

14 December 2019
5.30pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4315
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's most likely that Dave Dexter Jr. got an early master, as they also got an early mix for The Word . This is what happened with Sgt. Pepper which is why the inner groove isn't present on North American pressings.

But i don't know anyone who has a problem with it. If anything, it's a nice little bonus like the extra verse on I'll Cry Instead or the live excerpt of Twist And Shout on The Beatles Story.

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

20 January 2020
7.03pm
daniels102
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
20 January 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Finding this discussion really interesting.

 

What i will say is:

 

I think the acoustic is definitely paul. One - because i dont think it sounds like John (mainly not aggressive/raw enough) but also i dont think it sounds like his gibson. This was always ran through an amp using its weird pickup so never really sounds like a true acoustic.

 

I'm conflicted with the drums and might be able to make a better judgement next time i listen through some good headphones. Ringo is a great drummer (despite what ignorant people say) and these drums are both too simple for him (he usually throws in lovely but simple flourishes to make them his own) and there are a few mistakes and varying volume on the snare throughout.

 

Initially i agreed that the vocal did sound like 2 pauls - BUT, these harmonies were almost always recorded into one mic. Not just this though, but if you think about what the harmony does, it starts from two different notes and then the last 3 syllables are the same note with a drastically different timbre, if they were both paul i think they would match up a lot more closely and sound like one (even if paul was trying to 'mimic' johns voice)

 

and i've heard the isolated bass on youtube. the bass is just paul all over

The following people thank daniels102 for this post:

QuarryMan
20 January 2020
10.41pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 7923
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

daniels102 said
Initially i agreed that the vocal did sound like 2 pauls - BUT, these harmonies were almost always recorded into one mic. Not just this though, but if you think about what the harmony does, it starts from two different notes and then the last 3 syllables are the same note with a drastically different timbre, if they were both paul i think they would match up a lot more closely and sound like one (even if paul was trying to 'mimic' johns voice)

  

That contradicts what I've always heard- on Baby's In Black , they recorded their vocals on one mic together - the only time they did so. I could be wrong, however...

#AppleHoley2020: Get smelly people cleaned up! /-/ Make America hygienic again!
2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png 2019 awards: Ringo-2019.png
aus-flag-v-small.png

21 January 2020
7.15am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4315
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I always thought it was normal for them to record that way.

As for the acoustic guitar and drums being Paul, i think Ringo's playing the drums and tambourine simultaneously, which would explain the lack of cymbals, as well as his sloppy playing. It's hard to say whether it's John or Paul on acoustic though as the bass was supposedly recorded on the backing track but either way, it's appears that Paul came up with the part and either taught it to John or played it himself.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

QuarryMan

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

21 January 2020
12.05pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4448
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

They may be using a single mic in Walrus, too, but I'm not sure. 

I've always thought that organ tone of Ringo's was completely unique for 1965, and (though much lower in the mix) very similar to John Cale's sound on the Velvets' 1967 "Sister Ray",

Since we know there was a fuzz pedal around, is it possible they used it on the organ? I don't know if the Hammond is capable of certain sounds on its own or not...I DO know that we have many keyboardists here, though a-hard-days-night-george-10

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

QuarryMan

GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions, Marvin Gaye. PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty. 

                      Von-Bontee-2017.png

https://rateyourmusic.com/~Myo.....Von_Bontee

21 January 2020
12.19pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5113
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ringo playing tambourine simultaneously could explain the simplicity of the drumline. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

21 January 2020
5.15pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 7923
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

And of course all of what we're saying contradicts Joe's page.

He has this:

Paul McCartney: vocals, bass
John Lennon: harmony vocals, acoustic rhythm guitar
George Harrison: guitar, tambourine
Ringo Starr: drums, organ, percussion

 

And he says the only things that were overdubbed were the vocals, organ and the box of matches (percussion).

So how can George have played guitar and tambourine on the rhythm track? Unless Ringo did play them both at the same time on the rhythm track...

#AppleHoley2020: Get smelly people cleaned up! /-/ Make America hygienic again!
2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png 2019 awards: Ringo-2019.png
aus-flag-v-small.png

21 January 2020
5.31pm
daniels102
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
20 January 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
Ringo playing tambourine simultaneously could explain the simplicity of the drumline. 

ah, yes! good point! ok i'm convinced of this now. someone previously said the tambo would throw ringo off, i dont think this would be the case as you're effectively swapping the hi hat/ride in your right hand for a constant tambourine which isnt difficult, but from my experience playing fills is next to impossible (as youre holding a tambourine and not a stick). 

 

bass is almost definetly paul, from help onwards i think he generally overdubbed almost all his basslines and its why his playing took off so much, having the time to create and the freedom from simultaneous vocals (at least for a guide vocal) meant he could be much more creative.

21 January 2020
6.00pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3513
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I'm just a lowly layman when it comes to this sort of discussion, but the acoustic guitar doesn't at all sound like John's playing to me..

There is no final victory, as there is no final defeat. There is just the same battle to be fought, over and over again. So toughen up, bloody toughen up.” - Tony Benn
2019 BB awards: Most-respectful-even-through-disagreements-Awesomest-signature.png
UK.jpg demsoc2.jpg bi-flag-1.jpg

Avatar courtesy of Beatlebug and Ms. Björk Guðmundsdóttir

22 January 2020
7.34am
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4315
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Joe has stated that he got most of his information from Mark Lewisohn and Ian McDonald, both of whom make mistakes, especially Ian, who likely used a decent bit of speculation himself.

According to these sources, the backing track consisted of John on acoustic, Paul on bass, George on tambourine, and Ringo on drums. This was followed by overdubs of Ringo on Hammond, George on electric, Ringo tapping a matchbox, Paul on double tracked lead vocals, Paul and John on backing vocals, and handclaps. However, there's 2 electric guitar parts with completely different tones and styles and it would make little sense to do so many overdubs on a filler track when you can record the tambourine and an electric guitar part onto the backing track.

My guess would be this:

Track 1 (Backing Track): John on Gibson acoustic, Paul on Rickenbacker bass, George on Fender, Ringo on drums and tambourine

Track 2: Ringo on Hammond organ, Paul on Epiphone (distorted lick at the end of each verse)

Track 3: Ringo tapping on matchbox

Tracks 2 and 3 bounced, freeing up track 3

Track 3: Paul on lead vocals

Track 4: Paul on double tracked lead vocals

Tracks 3 and 4 bounced, freeing up track 4

Track 4: Backing vocals and handclaps

This would leave us with track 1 as backing track, track 2 as instrumental overdubs, track 3 as lead vocals, and track 4 as backing vocals and handclaps.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

23 January 2020
12.41pm
Avatar
Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4452
Member Since:
14 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

vonbontee said
They may be using a single mic in Walrus, too, but I'm not sure. 

("Walrus?" I meant "...Bulldog"...blue-meanie)

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

                 Winner-Funniest-Post-and-Most-Creative-Contribution-2017-1.pngfunniest-post-badge2018.png

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online: Ron Nasty, Jolly Jimmy
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15907
Ron Nasty: 10838
50yearslate: 8592
Necko: 7904
AppleScruffJunior: 7213
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
sir walter raleigh: 5113
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2573
Moderators: 6
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4890
Posts: 350010
Newest Members:
gabhold, Phebelya123, Phebelya1, Phebelya, JamesRoush
Moderators: Joe: 5099, Zig: 9812, meanmistermustard: 23245, Ahhh Girl: 19404, Beatlebug: 17264, The Hole Got Fixed: 7923
Administrators: Joe: 5099