Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

7   +   3   =  
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
19 September 2011
9.27pm
Budgie79
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
19 September 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hello Everyone!

My name's Warren and I'm a Beatles fan from the U.S. (Virginia). I "discovered" the Fab Four through Anthology (which was released when I was a junior in high school) and they've been my favorite band ever since (that's a VERY condensed version of my Beatles story. More later… perhaps). Although I appreciate every phase of the Beatles' fantastic career, I've always had a fascination with the Get Back sessions, and as such, I have a few technical questions (well… actually one for now I suppose) for anyone who feels they can *correctly* provide an answer. I apologize if I've posted this in the wrong forum. Here goes:

One would assume that "The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn is an accurate account of when the Beatles recorded what. However, in this book, it clearly states that the version of Get Back which appears on the album Let It Be was recorded on January 27th (with obvious dialogue from the rooftop concert tacked onto to the end), and is an entirely different take than the single version, whose master was supposedly recorded on January the 28th. This is what Lewisohn clearly says… and it's not a type-o. He states multiple times that there were two entirely different and seperate takes of Get Back released - again, the one from the 28th as the single, and the one from the the 27th that appears on Let It Be . Folks, I've listened to every version of Get Back that was commercialy released: Mono Masters, Past Masters , Let It Be , The Beatles: 1967-1970, 20 Greatest Hits, 1 and Let It Be …Naked ("LOVE" was not necessary for the purpose of this task), and ALL OF THEM appear to be the same take (some with the coda at the end, some without). 

So my question is, what's the deal with Get Back ? Was there really another entirely seperate take released?

In 2003, Paul Hicks (one of the guys who worked on "Naked") gave a track-by-track breakdown of which takes were used for the new Let It Be album. In it, he clearly states that the reason the coda isn't included in the 'Naked' version (again, it sounds like the same take) is because it wasn't a part of that performance and was therefore nixed because it wouldn't have reflected what actually happened live, thus, not keeping with the original idea of the Get back sessions. So it definitely came from another take… Would I be wrong in assuming that what ACTUALLY happened is that the coda from the 28th was selected and tacked onto the end of the version from the 27th for single release and somehow Lewisohn mistakenly thought that it was the whole take that got released and not just the ending? But if that's the case… I mean, how could such an oversight happen? Everything else in his account of the Get Back  sessions *seems* accurate enough.

 

Your thoughts PLEASE!

Warren

19 September 2011
9.43pm
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 6403
Member Since:
19 September 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Some thoughts:

  • Sessions is 25 years old (almost). The research is also old. 
  • As much as I respect Lewisohn, he is human.

He botched it. It's The majority Jan. 27, with the 28th yielding the coda. They weren't happy with the coda recorded on the best take of the 27th, so they tried the whole song again the next day. When they heard the original single mix, they didn't like it, and Paul and Glyn Johns remixed it for single release, editing the two best takes and creating the effect they desired, but could never achieve, in the basement of Apple.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

19 September 2011
11.36pm
Budgie79
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
19 September 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks, Mr. Sun King ... I appreciate the prompt response! I was wondering, just out of curiosity, where you got that information? Not that you're incorrect, but as I had said in my original post, Paul Hicks claims that the reason there is no coda on "Naked" (or on the original Let It Be album) is because there never was a coda on the 27th, and adding it to that version from whichever other take it originated would have defeated the purpose of the "live" album.

Not trying to be difficult, just curious.

20 September 2011
12.36am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 6403
Member Since:
19 September 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Budgie79 said:

Thanks, Mr. Sun King ... I appreciate the prompt response! I was wondering, just out of curiosity, where you got that information? {...} Not trying to be difficult, just curious.

Actually, on the most takes of January 27 (27 from here on), they missed the ending.  They didn't have it on the "master" on 27 (Take 11), but it was in the song at that time. They then tried to get the song great with a coda, but none of the recordings matched the best of 27.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

20 September 2011
2.35am
Budgie79
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
19 September 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

OK. Thank you for taking the time to respond! 🙂

20 September 2011
2.50am
mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 6403
Member Since:
19 September 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

No problem - I like to help. This is an area where Lewisohn is even wrong. I don't have Sessions (came out before my birth and is currently OP), but I don't care much for his entries about the Get Back sessions in Chronicle.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

20 September 2011
12.54pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21945
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If i Remember correctly the take on the 27th broke down during the coda so the one from the 28th was used (my laptop is knackered so i cannot check).

Books like Drugs, Divorce and a Slipping Image (Ray Schweighardt and Doug Suply) and 'the 910's guide to the beatles outtakes part 2, the complete get back sessions' (Doug Sulpy) exhaustively detail the Get Back Sessions (the 910 detailing material that had been unavailable for 'Drugs Divorce…' and correcting details that were incorrect due to nagra tapes not being available earlier). For a complete insight into the sessions you would need both.

Mark Lewinsohn has admitted that there are errors in his books, one reason being pressure to meet deadline dates set by the publishers, meaning he couldnt do as much research as he would have wanted. However they are essential reading for any beatles fan due to the wealth of material.

 

A/B Road released by Purple Chick is a Get Back  bootleg suitcase (ie far bigger than a normal boxset) that has every available minute from the sessions. If that sounds like a headache Thirty Days from Vigotone omits a heck of a lot of the chatter and monotonous jams, but even that might be too much for even a massive Get Back Sessions lover. Both are available for download online.

 

As for Let It Be Naked the premise of it being 'as live' as stated by Paul Hicks is nonsense due to the edits/overdubs on Don't Let Me Down, Let It Be and I Me Mine.     

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

Von Bontee

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

23 September 2011
4.53pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21945
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

For anyone who wants to listen to the complete Get Back performances that were edited together for the single.

 

On the Vigotone Boxset Thirty Days boxset: Disc 10 Track 20 (numbered 27.06 in the sleeve notes) and Disc 11 Track 16  

(28.01)

On the Purple Chick 'A/B Road' bootleg: Monday 27th January 1969: Disc 5 Track 9 (numbered 27.63) and Tuesday 28th January 1969 Disc 3 Track 20 (28.43). (27.63 is simply the 63rd performance on the 27th January and 28.43 the 43rd performace on the 28th.)    

 

(The reason for the different numbers are that the Vigotone release has the old reference system numbers as allocated by Doug Sulpy and Ray Swhweighardt in 'Drugs, Divorce and a Slipping Image'. The Puple Chick bootleg used the updated renumbered reference system in 'The 910's Guide to the Beatles Outakes Part 2: The Complete Get Back Sessions' following the discovery of previously unreleased Nagra reels that werent available when Thirty Days was issued.) 

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

26 November 2014
6.26pm
Avatar
meanmistermustard
Moderator
Members

Reviewers


Moderators
Forum Posts: 21945
Member Since:
1 May 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Listening to a heavier even more rocking version of this earlier and i really like the crashing entrance originally used and the romping guitars. And John's dirty laugh after "but she gets while she can".a-hard-days-night-john-5 Actually they got kind of near this with the Love remix that starts with the crashing intro of 'A Hard Day's Night ' and the drums from 'The End '; i wonder if that had all that in mind when creating the tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....PWc1wY564M

The following people thank meanmistermustard for this post:

IveJustSeenAFaceo, Von Bontee

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of 'self' to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

20 December 2018
11.36am
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4110
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

I was listening to Get Back yesterday and I was, as always, struck by the brilliance of John's guitar. I can't explain why I like it so much, I just do. Does anyone else like it, or am I just crazy? (which is a viable option ahdn_paul_02)

Also, I just want to say that the dialogue at the beginning on the album version is heart

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

Beatlebug

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian) 

- - -

Hardcore-BeatlesBible-fan-badge.png

20 December 2018
11.56am
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 13431
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Someone, somewhere, once spent far more writing than was at all called for bashing John's guitar solo in this song. (I disremember where.) As I recall, this individual called it amateurish, appalling, and questioned the sanity of all involved for even allowing John to have an attempt at it. Blamed the engineer for wanting to go on his lunch break and not confront John.

I thought that was rubbish. It's a fun little guitar part -- very basic but it does the job. The whole song is, really.

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

50yearslate, 50yearslate

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

20 December 2018
12.01pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4110
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

Beatlebug said
Someone, somewhere, once spent far more writing than was at all called for bashing John's guitar solo in this song. (I disremember where.) As I recall, this individual called it amateurish, appalling, and questioned the sanity of all involved for even allowing John to have an attempt at it. Blamed the engineer for wanting to go on his lunch break and not confront John.

I thought that was rubbish. It's a fun little guitar part -- very basic but it does the job. The whole song is, really.  

I agree entirely. Also, I know it's off topic, but I think I read someone insulting George's solo in CBML. Which appalled me, as it has always been one of my favorites. I guess I just have really unusual taste? mccartney-shrug_01_gif

The following people thank 50yearslate for this post:

Beatlebug

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian) 

- - -

Hardcore-BeatlesBible-fan-badge.png

20 December 2018
12.08pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 13431
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

No, no. It's someone else who has... unusual taste. a-hard-days-night-paul-3

The following people thank Beatlebug for this post:

50yearslate, 50yearslate, 50yearslate, vonbontee

It verges from the sublime to the ridiculote

Silly-Girl-2016.png Silly-Girl-2017.png bbbadge2018.jpg

New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here

20 December 2018
3.07pm
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5646
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

50yearslate said

I agree entirely. Also, I know it's off topic, but I think I read someone insulting George's solo in CBML. Which appalled me, as it has always been one of my favorites. I guess I just have really unusual taste? mccartney-shrug_01_gif  

That person could be both me and my dad...blue-meanie

Oh, by the way, this post was made by The Hole Got Fixed!

2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png

20 December 2018
3.08pm
Avatar
50yearslate
Playing on the roofs again
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4110
Member Since:
15 November 2018
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

@The Hole Got Fixed said

That person could be both me and my dad...blue-meanie  

. . . I'm curious. Why?

Don't get me wrong, you are 100% entitled to your opinion. I'm just trying to see it from your point of view.

Love one another.

- - -

(I'm Fiddy, not Walrian) 

- - -

Hardcore-BeatlesBible-fan-badge.png

20 December 2018
4.38pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4303
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I love the contrast between John’s simply bendy guitar solo and Billy Preston’s WICKED (and i mean nasty) rhodes solo. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

20 December 2018
5.15pm
Avatar
vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 3597
Member Since:
1 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That's a totally fine little compact solo in "Get Back ", follows the contours of the vocal melody but doesn't duplicate it verbatim. And John throws enough little minor note changes or phrasing alterations in the solo's repeat (and throughout the various takes) to keep it a living thing.

And as someone who geeks out over varying guitar tones in Beatles tracks, I too have a great love for those working versions which are noisier and incorporate more contemporary fuzz/wah effects. (And the take with John & Paul in unison, and the Deutsche-sung version, and...)

The following people thank vonbontee for this post:

Into the Sky with Diamonds

Someone said 'What were you gonna do when it's all finished,' and I said 'I don't know but it'd be good fun being a DJ.' And since then I've become a DJ, only by word of mouth, you know. SO any minute now you'll read, 'Ringo leaves to become a DJ' but it's not true. - Ringo Starr

                     Von-Bontee-2017.png

27 December 2018
4.04pm
Avatar
QuarryMan
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1398
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

50yearslate said
I was listening to Get Back yesterday and I was, as always, struck by the brilliance of John's guitar. I can't explain why I like it so much, I just do. Does anyone else like it, or am I just crazy? (which is a viable option ahdn_paul_02)

Also, I just want to say that the dialogue at the beginning on the album version is heart  

I really like this solo too! It's very fun to play on guitar, but that's probably not why it's so addictive. 

The following people thank QuarryMan for this post:

50yearslate

"You shouldn't let poets lie to you"

- Björk

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 597
Currently Online: Von Bontee, The Hole Got Fixed, 50yearslate, Ma'Leke Stevens-Bush, joshthenesnerd, Backstar, Capri
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15481
Beatlebug: 13431
Ron Nasty: 8855
Necko: 7831
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6148
trcanberra: 6042
AppleScruffJunior: 5865
The Hole Got Fixed: 5644
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2630
Moderators: 4
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4682
Posts: 306974
Newest Members:
Ringobestman, nadine, BlueMoon262, MickyDavyPeterMikeMONKEES, Monkeesgurl
Moderators: Joe: 5032, Zig: 9800, meanmistermustard: 21945, Ahhh Girl: 17532
Administrators: Joe: 5032, Ellie: 4