Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Defining Canon
1 May 2020
3.26pm
GIMH
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 26
Member Since:
15 March 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Okay stay with me on this, been bugging me for years. 

Beatles Canon is defined as the eleven proper LPs, plus yellow submarine and MMT. Then add all the Past Masters tracks and you have everything. 

The question I have is, if someone only has either stereo or mono of each album (obviously only stereo for the latter few) do they have the full canon? 

Okay in most cases it’s just a different mix but I’m thinking examples like:

Please Please Me – stereo version is a different take and therefore if you buy or stream the album, that song is a different version to the single. No ostensible difference to the way we have two versions of Love Me Do but one of them is deemed different enough for Past Masters

Help ! – different vocal take on the mono album. Was the original single also that take? I have no idea but either way it’s a different version of the song 

There’s plenty of others but hey go. I know there are mono V stereo discussions on here elsewhere but really my question is from a Canon perspective why were variances in tracks like Let It Be important enough to separate and have the single version on Past Masters but ones like these, which IMO are more substantial, are not? 

1 May 2020
7.02pm
Avatar
Dark Overlord
Nowhere Land
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4467
Member Since:
9 March 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Because both versions of Please Please Me and Help ! appeared on the album, one on the mono version and the other on the stereo version.

Also, what Apple considers canon is flawed. For example, the 2 German songs are considered canon despite not being released in the UK until 1978 and Magical Mystery Tour is considered canon but not Hey Jude despite both being the only 2 releases created for a foreign market that had to be manually approved by The Beatles and the latter being released in more countries.

Personally, i think canon is best defined as how a Brit would’ve most likely heard their music back in the 60’s, which would’ve likely been in mono until ~1968 since stereo wasn’t popular for a good chunk of their career and would’ve included their 11 main albums plus A Collection Of Beatles Oldies, Yellow Submarine , the 2 EPs containing new tracks (Long Tall Sally and Magical Mystery Tour ), and all their singles, as well as possibly Magical Mystery Tour and Hey Jude , since those albums were popular imports when they were first released.

The following people thank Dark Overlord for this post:

Dingle Lad

If you're reading this, you are looking for something to do.

2 May 2020
8.02am
Avatar
Dingle Lad
Detroit Rock Citizen
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 611
Member Since:
28 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Canon was set in 1987. Let’s stick with it.

What is happening? And tell me how you've been.

2 May 2020
10.02am
Avatar
alittlebitolder
There Is A Place
Ed Sullivan Show
Members
Forum Posts: 479
Member Since:
28 April 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It is a pity that they didn’t add the MMT EP songs songs onto the Yellow Submarine album and then added the 1967 singles onto Past Masters 2 … I really hate MMT being called an album, when it really isn’t! Alternatively, the MMT album songs could have been added to a re-figured Past Masters 2?

2 May 2020
11.40am
GIMH
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 26
Member Since:
15 March 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think what really made me think about is was because Help was a single too. Given all singles were released in mono I presume the mono mix is the original single one. Perhaps I have this wrong though. 

6 May 2020
12.28am
Avatar
Dingle Lad
Detroit Rock Citizen
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 611
Member Since:
28 February 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Original Mono mix is on the Brit single. Without looking it up I’m not sure if it appears on the American single. The American version of the Mono Help LP had a fold Down of the Stereo version. It’s all kind of wonky. 

GIMH said
I think what really made me think about is was because Help was a single too. Given all singles were released in mono I presume the mono mix is the original single one. Perhaps I have this wrong though.

 

The following people thank Dingle Lad for this post:

GIMH

What is happening? And tell me how you've been.

12 September 2021
11.29pm
Avatar
Mr. Moonlight
The Jacaranda
Members
Forum Posts: 26
Member Since:
29 August 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I would consider canon to be the Parlophone/Apple recordings that were officially released from 1962 to 1970.

Everything else – be it outtakes, live performance or latter-day remixes – whether officially released or not – I would classify under the heading of Supplementary Materials.

Of course, there’s a grey area when it comes to the stereo and other alternate mixes that were released officially during the canon period but which the Beatles didn’t necessarily have anything to do with. And how faithful the CDs are to the original vinyl is also an open question.

The following people thank Mr. Moonlight for this post:

Rube

"Nothing is Beatle-proof."

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16072
Ron Nasty: 11633
Zig: 9832
50yearslate: 8722
Necko: 7961
AppleScruffJunior: 7484
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2695
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5068
Posts: 362000
Newest Members:
gracelyv, ayefookface, ken1921, iburiedsauce, JDEMARCO
Moderators: Joe: 5261, meanmistermustard: 24055, Ahhh Girl: 20287, Beatlebug: 17675, The Hole Got Fixed: 8318
Administrators: Joe: 5261