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27 February 2019
7.34pm
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The Hole Got Fixed
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You make a very good point. The more I listen to it, the more I think it's Ringo...

So I've gone from Paul to Ringo on this issue in the space of 24 hours. Wow!

I've seen that Dave Stewart video before - really quite a good video actually. I watched that a month after I took up drumming, so it was quite invaluable.

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10 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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I've seen that Dave Stewart video before - really quite a good video actually.The Hole Got Fixed said

  

this one here:

 

 

stumbled upon it the other day...:-)

23 May 2019
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Illgetyou
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The Hole Got Fixed said
You make a very good point. The more I listen to it, the more I think it's Ringo...

So I've gone from Paul to Ringo on this issue in the space of 24 hours. Wow!

 

  

Fan-fantasies about who did what are obviously a big part of fan-culture and the fascination with a band. So there's nothing wrong with coming up with strange theories.

In this case, although, while it's fun imagining Ringo creeping back into the studio after leaving and overdubbing the stuff they did without him, there's absolutely NO evidence this EVER happened. All recording notes state his absence, and he never claimed he did it.

All three other Beatles contributed to the drum track, that's why it sounds a bit messy and out of rhythm at times. Ringo would have been much more precise.

Anyone who's hearing Ringo in the backing vocals is not completely off track: There ARE more than the usual Paul/John/George vocals: Jackie Lomax, Mal Evans and John McCartney, according to Lewisohn. But no Ringo, either.

Anyone who's claiming the drum fills at the end are out of Paul's capabilities just doesn't know his stuff of just doesn't like him much. Listen to Kreen Akrore from the McCartney album, it sounds almost excactly as the drums at the end, rolls and all. Oh, right, that guy claims Paul wasn't any good before "practicing" a lot and recording alone in 1970. That's just funny. Please listen to My dark hour with Steve Miller from 1969. Lots of similar stuff on the drums from Paul there.

So there's nothing to support any claim that Ringo did any recording on Dear Prudence , just personal opinion and fantasy - which is fine, but shouldn't be taken as fact.

It's Paul on the drums, from start to finish, and no Ringo.

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23 May 2019
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Ron Nasty
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And people often forget the early 1968 Peter Asher produced Paul Jones single And the Sun Will Shine/The Dog Presides, which predate Dear Prudence . The backing band was Jeff Beck on guitar, Paul Samwell-Smith (The Yardbirds) on bass, Nicky Hopkins on keyboards and Macca on drums:

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23 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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All three other Beatles contributed to the drum track, that's why it sounds a bit messy and out of rhythm at timesIllgetyou said

sure you're not thinking of 'Back In The U.S.S.R.'?...

 

 

In this case, although, while it's fun imagining Ringo creeping back into the studio after leaving and overdubbing the stuff they did without him, there's absolutely NO evidence this EVER happenedIllgetyou said

and there's no paper trail supporting that Paul did the obvious overdub...  there's audio evidence displaying Paul's stumbling about while Ringo was absent...  not gonna link it again...  there are those at a predisposition with their very own "Fan-fantasies" that Paul was somehow better than he really was on the drums...  Mark Lewisohn came up empty (wouldn't be the first time) so as Sir George Martin says...  All You Need Is Ears...:-)

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23 May 2019
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Ron Nasty
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Nor is there any evidence that Paul didn't do a "drop-in" on his own drum track.

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23 May 2019
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Kaniffee
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That does seem like something Paul would do seeing as he is a perfectionist about these things.

Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

24 May 2019
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Ron Nasty said
And people often forget the early 1968 Peter Asher produced Paul Jones single And the Sun Will Shine/The Dog Presides, which predate Dear Prudence . The backing band was Jeff Beck on guitar, Paul Samwell-Smith (The Yardbirds) on bass, Nicky Hopkins on keyboards and Macca on drums:

  

Wow, amazing stuff! You can always discover something new after all these years. I never heard of this project!

The tom-fills on "And the sun" sound charmingly similar to the clumsy just-a-little-bit-out-of-time fills from Paul's "Come And Get It " demo AND some of the fills at the end of "Dear Prudence ". Still a good performance. "The dog" on the other hand sounds really tight, very good playing by Paul.

Paul also came up with the "Ticket To Ride " groove in 65 and coached Ringo through his tom-fills on A Day In The Life in 67.

Not that I want to sound like I'd agree with John's "Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles". Ringo was obviously the most accomplished, versatile and precise drummer of them, duh! But he surely was surrounded by three wanne-be-drummers! "Anytime I got off the kit to get some tea one of them would get behind it" or so he said. And Paul was the most natural musician of them and probably the most eager, too, so he got better quite quickly and turned into a capable drummer in 68, obviously. And luckily this is nothing fans need to fan-tasize about - it's all on tape.

It's impossible to convince people who are so entitled to their opinion that they actively ignore facts and evidence that prove them wrong. But this discovery was definitely worth the try!

24 May 2019
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Illgetyou said
Not that I want to sound like I'd agree with John's "Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles". Ringo was obviously the most accomplished, versatile and precise drummer of them, duh! But he surely was surrounded by three wanne-be-drummers! "Anytime I got off the kit to get some tea one of them would get behind it" or so he said. And Paul was the most natural musician of them and probably the most eager, too, so he got better quite quickly and turned into a capable drummer in 68, obviously. And luckily this is nothing fans need to fan-tasize about - it's all on tape.

I believe Paul has even been getting behind the drum kit for longer.  He would occasionally fill in as a drummer when he, George, and John were performing before they got Pete Best.

Here's an article where Paul talks about his experiences with drumming.

http://drummagazine.com/paul-m.....r-drummer/

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Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

24 May 2019
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QuarryMan
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Paul is just a very solid musician all around. He could probably play instrument he wanted if he put the time in.

Tall, dark-haired QuarryMan likes basketball, music, and naturally, boys. He was a valuable participant on the track team. He is one of Freeport's great contributors to the recording world. As for the immediate future, QuarryMan has no plans, but will take life as it comes. 

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24 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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Not that I want to sound like I'd agree with John's "Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in The Beatles".Illgetyou said

  

since you're so big on "evidence" and all...  what's your source that John ever said this?

 

a capable drummer in 68, obviously. And luckily this is nothing fans need to fan-tasize about - it's all on tapeIllgetyou said

  

yep...  Paul's reference drum track on 'Dear Prudence ' is there for all to listen to...  the first 2/3 is so solid that they kept it in there for the final mix...

Ron Nasty said
Nor is there any evidence that Paul didn't do a "drop-in" on his own drum track.

  

possible but unlikely..  besides the fact that the fragment in question sounds like a different drummer playing than his own take, he was merely filling in because Ringo had left...  he'd left because Paul was confused over who was the drummer of The Beatles...  the calls for Ringo to return happened almost immediately and I don't think that the reunion would've lasted very long had Paul done "a "drop-in" on his own drum track"...  did Paul even play drums on another Beatles recording after 'Dear Prudence '?...  Ringo returned because the others convinced him that he was The Best Drummer for The Beatles and let him play...:-)

24 May 2019
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QuarryMan
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Yeah @Illgetyou , John never actually said that quote

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24 May 2019
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Von Bontee
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Paul later played drums on "Ballad of J&Y".

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24 May 2019
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Kaniffee
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Von Bontee said
Paul later played drums on "Ballad of J&Y".

Though that was a time when John and Paul had gone to record the whole song without George or Ringo, so it is a bit different.

Billy Rhythm said

Ron Nasty said

Nor is there any evidence that Paul didn't do a "drop-in" on his own drum track.

 

  

possible but unlikely..  besides the fact that the fragment in question sounds like a different drummer playing than his own take, he was merely filling in because Ringo had left...  he'd left because Paul was confused over who was the drummer of The Beatles...  the calls for Ringo to return happened almost immediately and I don't think that the reunion would've lasted very long had Paul done "a "drop-in" on his own drum track"...  did Paul even play drums on another Beatles recording after 'Dear Prudence '?...  Ringo returned because the others convinced him that he was The Best Drummer for The Beatles and let him play...:-)

  

Forgive me if I missed something, but is there any evidence of when the overdub happened?  Couldn't Paul have done the overdub before Ringo even came back?

Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

24 May 2019
12.52pm
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QuarryMan said
Yeah @Illgetyou , John never actually said that quote

 

  

Cool, thanks for the video, that's interesting to know! It's one of those quotes everyone uses until nobody asks where it's coming from.

Not that I even thought John was serious. It DOES sound like some biting joke he would make.

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27 May 2019
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Kaniffee said

Forgive me if I missed something, but is there any evidence of when the overdub happened?  Couldn't Paul have done the overdub before Ringo even came back?

  

They finished all recordings in August (without Ringo) and mixed it in October.

I scanned the page from the anniversary book (I never uploaded a picture here, let's see how it works) - with all their meticulous research and recording details it's completely IMPOSSIBLE that a later overdub by Ringo would go completely missing and unnoticed and unmentioned. Ah, ok, I just realized that I can't upload it just like that. Will look for possible solutions to make it available to everyone who doesn't own the book.

Right according to Lewisohn there are the additional singers and handclappers - but no Ringo.

Dear Prudence info

As I said, it's ok and fun to imagine stuff. There are people who SERIOUSLY discuss and consider the matters of fake-Paul! a-hard-days-night-paul-11

Paul seems to have been as sure and dominant about this certain drum part that it drove Ringo into a vacation (in the Howard Stern interview he didn't mention Paul as the only reason, but that he didn't feel comfortable with the whole situation). Paul never was seriously considering taking over the drums, but the others realized he wasn't as good as Ringo - what a bizarre idea. Everyone just did about their business and they just pretended "Oh well, Ringo's not here today". Of course they were missing him and he was missing them and after some weeks he returned. Everybody as happy as it was possible at that time, and Paul had added two great drum parts to his resumee.

And while Ringo - just like George at times - was understandably frustrated with Paul's dominant way of processing his ideas, he kept praising Paul in later years and said "We all need to thank Paul for these albums (Peppers and everything after it) - without him, none of them would have happened." (check out his Howard Stern interviews).

It's hard for some people to accept the truth and the facts and the evidence because they are driven by their anti-Paul agenda. That's a bit sad, because on a Beatle-page it should be natural to treat all four members with the same respect.

The worst part is that this pointless bickering spoils the joy and fun of the music.

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27 May 2019
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Billy Rhythm
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It's hard for some people to accept the truth and the facts and the evidence because they are driven by their anti-Paul agendaIllgetyou said

p?c1=2&c2=20015427&cv=2.0&cj=1


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these "anti-Paul agenda" accusations are your own obscured interpretation of others simply stating their own opinions on "the facts and evidence" as they see it...  my very own "obscured interpretation" is that you take the "Complete" word out of your favourite Beatle Book far too literally when in reality it's "literally" 'Incompleat'...  there are glaring omissions everywhere and the mystery of who did the overdub for 'Dear Prudence ' is no different...  it's most understandable that a Paul guy/gal would steer attention away from his original drum track which effectively demonstrates his inability to deliver what the song needed...

Illgetyou said

 

 

The worst part is that this pointless bickering spoils the joy and fun of the music.

p?c1=2&c2=20015427&cv=2.0&cj=1


Quantcast

  

speak for yourself...  while I take some time to consider other's opinions that differ from my own, I'd never allow for it to "spoils the joy and fun of the music" for me personally...

  

They finished all recordings in August (without Ringo) and mixed it in October.Illgetyou said

second hand interpretation of another second hand interpretation of a paper trail...:-)

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28 May 2019
3.22pm
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Billy Rhythm said

these "anti-Paul agenda" accusations are your own obscured interpretation of others simply stating their own opinions on "the facts and evidence" as they see it...  my very own "obscured interpretation" is that you take the "Complete" word out of your favourite Beatle Book far too literally when in reality it's "literally" 'Incompleat'...  there are glaring omissions everywhere and the mystery of who did the overdub for 'Dear Prudence ' is no different...  it's most understandable that a Paul guy/gal would steer attention away from his original drum track which effectively demonstrates his inability to deliver what the song needed...

They finished all recordings in August (without Ringo) and mixed it in October.Illgetyou said

second hand interpretation of another second hand interpretation of a paper trail...:-)

  

Dude, thanks to the vocabulary you use to describe Paul's music and attributions there's absolutely no need for "obscure interpretations" to understand your agenda - you lay it out for everyone to see, you're at least honest and consequent about your opinion, I give you that!

And of course I totally understand you - If I didn't even have a "paper trail" to support my claims I would probably make up crazy conspiracy theories, too. Looking forward to that book that "Paul guy/gal" is going to write one day and tell the tale!

I guess I wouldn't blatantly ignore provided evidence, like several contemporary examples of Paul absolutely being able to deliver what the song needed on the drums (he later put that insane bass line on top of it), but I know that's what you do, and that's fine, I mean, everyone can see it and judge for themselves. And there's lots of other anti-Paul people out there who are more than willing to believe anything that takes away any merit from him.

The beauty is: Nothing what you or I believe changes anything.

And if you like to make up some additional drama in your mind to spice up an already legendary song (I could play Lennon's beautiful, beautiful guitar intro all day long, they were completing each other just so perfectly) and support your opinion of McCartney, that's totally fine.

That's why people make biopics with all the added drama and made up controversy, like "Bohemian Rhapsody" - reality often is too boring!

28 May 2019
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I just wanted to know if Paul could've done the overdub before Ringo came back.  Why did this have become a big fight about anti-Paul agendas?

a-hard-days-night-ringo-12

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Why yes that is a picture of Paul dabbing. Deal with it.

29 May 2019
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This song and Julia are John’s most peaceful melodies as a Beatle in my opinion. Julia is more of a pensive solace whereas Prudence has elements of optimism and joy. 

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