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Best Drum Performances by Ringo?
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Bjway
On The Hill
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28 December 2013 - 3.01am

mja6758 said
Leaves you with one of four choices - the recording dates for DP are completely wrong and we don't know when it was recorded, in spite of the documentation; when recording the basic track they didn't bother with drums, waiting for Ringo to come back and do that in some undocumented overdub session, despite the proof that drums were part of the basic track; Ringo augmented Paul's drum track at some undocumented overdub session, which would make the drum track a combination of his and Paul's original (which knowing the basic track was recorded live would mean bleed-through would have meant it couldn't be removed completely), something I don't dismiss out of hand, though would love to see any proof of this undocumented overdub session; or everybody, including Ringo, and his passport, have it wrong about where he was, and he was back with them at Trident on the 28th.

Those are the possibilities though, based on the evidence (and lack of for Ringo being the drummer and not Paul) - and not taking in John's comment about Paul's drumming on DP.

This is where this stuff sometimes gets silly. All the evidence says no way, and people sit there and say way. Give me some proof that Ringo, despite all the evidence, was the drummer on the recording of DP!

I don't have a specific opinion as to who played the fills on the final track (although I do think it sounds like Ringo's style and kind of reminds me of the drumming at the end of I Am The Walrus), I do think I can conclude that the fills at the end are overdubbed. If you listen to the Rock Band vocal track you can hear the original drum track in the background. This track was the one that was used on the final recording if you compare the two. But the drums towards the end where the fills are are very noticeably different, meaning the fills must have been overdubs (or I suppose from a different take). In place of the fills is a simpler beat with some smaller fills. In my opinion, the fills on this track almost sound a bit awkward, which could be why they overdubbed.

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
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28 December 2013 - 3.30am

Hey, any way a new thread could be started for this? It's kind of off topic now.

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Ron Nasty
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28 December 2013 - 3.54am

It's not off-topic if people are going to suggest in this thread that the Dear Prudence drum track should be given to Ringo, when there is no proof that it was Ringo, and lots of proof it was Paul.

It would have been amiss of me when people started suggesting it was Ringo drumming, and calling into account Lewisohn's hearing, not to lay out why it couldn't be Ringo.

You can't have people calling one of Ringo's best drum performances (mainly John songs - RainTomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields, I Am The Walrus, Revolution) something he didn't do. That demeans him.

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Wigwam
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28 December 2013 - 4.35am

Maybe Paul did a 'Ringo'?

Maybe he consciously aped his mate's style.

 

I'd personally give it to Ringo……… Don't these two ever read this stuff and see the mysteries within their power to solve for us? Come on lads we've gots to know!

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Ron Nasty
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28 December 2013 - 4.44am

Sorry to bang on, but I say we do know. Dear Prudence was recorded 28-30 August 1968. Ringo left the group on the 22 August, went to Sardinia on holiday, rejoined 3 September. So how is Ringo drumming?!!!!

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
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28 December 2013 - 4.57am

mja6758 said
It's not off-topic if people are going to suggest in this thread that the Dear Prudence drum track should be given to Ringo, when there is no proof that it was Ringo, and lots of proof it was Paul.

It would have been amiss of me when people started suggesting it was Ringo drumming, and calling into account Lewisohn's hearing, not to lay out why it couldn't be Ringo.

You can't have people calling one of Ringo's best drum performances (mainly John songs - RainTomorrow Never Knows, Strawberry Fields, I Am The Walrus, Revolution) something he didn't do. That demeans him.

Well, the point was to explain why it's really good, not to explain why it's Ringo.

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acmac
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28 December 2013 - 5.19am

I've been a-listening to the White Album with an ear out for Ringo, and I don't think anybody's mentioned "I'm So Tired," where he does such a good job of playing juuust a little bit slow, and in a flat, perfunctory sort of way as if to suggest he can hardly be bothered... it suits the song so well, and then when the energy picks up ("Give you everything I got...") he picks it up, too, and his fills perfectly fit the frustration the lyrics are expressing. 

In "Long, Long, Long," his sudden bombasts really add to the surreal quality of the song, and I feel like he plays all that cymbal with really exquisite restraint.

Also, in "Monkey" he does his typical awesome Ringo thing of gradually expanding on the drum part verse-by-verse, and he adds such a fabulous shoop-scoopy feel to that short delicious intro.

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Billy Rhythm
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28 December 2013 - 6.51am

mja6758 said 
lots of proof it was Paul.
 

 

This simply isn't true, the only "proof" of Paul playing drums is a "date stamp" from a source that has proven to be faulted on occasion before, and even if it is correct in the case of 'Dear Prudence' (which I based my first post on Lewisohn's documentation actually being correct and still showing "lots of proof" that the drummer is likely Ringo), his documentation isn't 100% complete either, in other words, just because an overdub track by Ringo recorded after September 3, 1968 isn't mentioned in one of Lewisohn's Bible Passages, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen.  I acknowledged the evidence supporting Paul playing (hardly "lots of proof") in both my posts showcasing why I believe that it's Ringo.  The best evidence is the tracks themselves, which tell a different tale than what Mark Lewisohn did or did not present in his book, if you have something else other than a regurgitated "date stamp" that I'm supposed to take as gospel, I'd be very interested to hear it...:-)

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Ron Nasty
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28 December 2013 - 9.43am

So, John commenting on Paul's drumming on DP doesn't contradict that?

The reason that I say there is "lots of proof it was Paul" is the multiplicity of quotes from those involved that say it was Paul, which is supported by the Lewisohn "date stamp" which places its recording during Ringo's hiatus.

There is a quote, and I can't remember where, when John in the 70s/80 is talking about Paul as a musician (maybe someone else here will know the one I'm talking about) where one of the examples he complements Paul's drumming on DP.

And far from relying on Lewisohn for the recording date, 28 August was first given by Mal Evans in the November 1968 edition of The Beatles Book Monthly. Admittedly, he does also refer to "clapping and singing in the chorus by all four Beatles", but that dates to when they were attempting to cover up that a Beatle had walked out on the group during the sessions, and also doesn't mention Ringo wasn't there for Back In The USSR.

With the greatest respect, I would suggest that you need to rely on more than "I believe" when the documentation and majority of quotes suggest otherwise.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

Wigwam
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28 December 2013 - 10.15am

Listen to it here……….

 

http://youtu.be/zmTGUIcpwQc

 

 

mjab6758 points us to the facts as far as they're known. I've not read anything to contradict him. It's only a 'feeling' that others have including me that it sounds too good to be Paul.

 

However, Paul took seriously every track he played on. Especially John and George's songs. It's more than just professional pride, he truly cared. He made many of John's tracks better through his input. Whether it's his essential base-line in 'Come Together' or his synth intro to 'Strawberry fields'. Or handed the lead guitar duty on Taxman he knocks out a cracker!!

I'm beginning to think that given the challenge of taking over the drum-kit he wanted to give his very best. For the group's sake and, OK, to impress his mates including Ringo…….That he simply rose to the occasion.

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meanmistermustard

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28 December 2013 - 12.25pm

Isn't the argument for Ringo taking the evidence out of the way so to debate the point when arguments should be based on the evidence available. To take a few errors in Lewisohn's book and then apply that premise to another song is, for me, a step too far (other writers have since corrected mistakes Lewisohn made, or appeared in his book, but haven't for Dear Prudence).   

If those who think its Ringo have evidence for their case then please put it forward but "i think", "i hear", "i believe" is not proof. 

As for Ringo's claim there are only 3 Beatles songs he didn't play on: "Love Me Do (Andy White version), Back In The USSR & Ballad of John and Yoko", well there is also Wild Honey Pie, Mother Nature's Son and Martha My Dear to name but 3 others, oh P.S. I Love You makes 4.

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
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28 December 2013 - 4.34pm

He also didn't drum on Because or She's Leaving Home! Ha, got you Ringo.

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Billy Rhythm
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28 December 2013 - 4.48pm

Here's concrete proof that the fills were overdubbed, this showcases the last verse before the fills were dubbed and you can clearly hear Paul's sloppy reference track recorded on August 28, 1968 that's nowhere near as crisp as the final track (especially the highhats) which comes on afterwards for comparison

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyBS9xCP4-o

 

I don't know if people are just hell bent on defending Paul here because they don't feel that he gets adequate respect as a drummer or something, but those fills aren't his whether Mark Lewisohn said so or not, the tracks speak for themselves here...:-)

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LongHairedLady
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29 December 2013 - 1.40am

mja6758 said
Sorry to bang on, but I say we do know. Dear Prudence was recorded 28-30 August 1968. Ringo left the group on the 22 August, went to Sardinia on holiday, rejoined 3 September. So how is Ringo drumming?!!!!

I agree with you 100%.  I have always been irritated by people arguing the simple fact that it is Paul.  Is it insulting to Ringo that Paul can decently drum?  He would have been heavily influenced by Ringo's drumming.  Ugh, these arguments just get ridiculous.  It's like arguing just for the sake of arguing...

… and damn it here I am joining in.  ahdn_paul_01

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AppleScruffJunior
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29 December 2013 - 2.07am

Plot twist: It was Yoko who was drumming on Dear Prudence a-hard-days-night-ringo-6

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Billy Rhythm
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29 December 2013 - 4.06am

LongHairedLady said
I have always been irritated by people arguing the simple fact that it is Paul.  Is it insulting to Ringo that Paul can decently drum?  He would have been heavily influenced by Ringo's drumming.  Ugh, these arguments just get ridiculous.  It's like arguing just for the sake of arguing...

… and damn it here I am joining in.  ahdn_paul_01

 

 

Here we go again, "it is Paul" over and over again with no hard evidence, I post a video with a side by side comparison of Paul's original reference drum track recorded on August 28, 1968 (your "smoking gun" evidence) against the final isolated drum track which is clearly played by Ringo.  Paul's original take (if you even bothered to listen to it) resembles Pete Best trying to keep up on 'Love Me Do' in the place where Ringo obviously was asked to clean up his mess.  I get it your Paul fans (so am I), and if you really wanna hear him play the drums on 'Dear Prudence', listen to the first half of the video that I posted, but you're gonna be disappointed because it sounds nothing like the final track which is so obviously Ringo, give credit where credit is do and don't take 'The COMPLETE Beatle Recording Sessions' by Mark Lewisohn so literally for history has shown that on many occasions his book is in fact, 'INCOMPLETE'...:-)

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LongHairedLady
coming in through the bathroom window
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29 December 2013 - 8.44am

Listen here Billy Rythm (welcome to the forum btw)..  I will watch the video when I'm on my laptop, if you really think it will change my mind.  Don't count on it though. 

Watch it with the assumptions.  

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

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meanmistermustard

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29 December 2013 - 12.38pm

Can we please not recreate the 'John v Paul ADITL ahh' thread over this please. 

If it is Ringo then in no way is Paul's reputation or legacy going to be diminished thru this revelation. And we've done the "you're too biased to x to see the truth" before, last time i was far too much a John devotee. Differences of opinion appear, the best thing to do is draw a line under it and move on.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

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Linde
The Netherlands
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29 December 2013 - 2.40pm

Why do people even bother arguing about this? Isn't it exhausting?

 

Anyway, has Strawberry Fields Forever been mentioned already?

 

My favourite drum performances of Ringo are on the obvious songs Rain, ADITL, Tomorrow Never Knows. Ticket To Ride and She Said She Said. but I also love Long Long Long and Blue Jay Way. I think the drumming on those 2 songs are very cool. I also love those things he does on WMGGW and Come Together. I don't know what it is as I don't know anything about drumming, but I like it.

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LongHairedLady
coming in through the bathroom window
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29 December 2013 - 5.20pm

Billy Rhythm said
Here's concrete proof that the fills were overdubbed, this showcases the last verse before the fills were dubbed and you can clearly hear Paul's sloppy reference track recorded on August 28, 1968 that's nowhere near as crisp as the final track (especially the highhats) which comes on afterwards for comparison

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyBS9xCP4-o

 

I don't know if people are just hell bent on defending Paul here because they don't feel that he gets adequate respect as a drummer or something, but those fills aren't his whether Mark Lewisohn said so or not, the tracks speak for themselves here...:-)

I don't see how this is "concrete proof" when it is still based on an opinion.  It could still be either of them, as it is not a video or a testimonial.  

You can have your opinion of who is drumming and I will have mine.  If you learn to agree to disagree on this forum it will save you a lot of grief.  a-hard-days-night-george-10

"Please don't bring your banjo back, I know where it's been..  I wasn't hardly gone a day, when it became the scene..  Banjos!  Banjos!  All the time, I can't forget that tune..  and if I ever see another banjo, I'm going out and buy a big balloon!"

 

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