Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
BBC article - Is it time to re-evaluate Ringo Starr?
20 December 2013
1.42am
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7111
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

From BBC – Culture:

A new book about the Fab Four gives Ringo Starr a long-overdue reassessment. So, Greg Kot asks, is it time we re-write myths about The Beatles’ drummer?

One problem with being as big as the Beatles is that myths get ingrained and are repeated so often that they after a few decades they’re treated as fact. Ringo Starr may be one of the four most famous people ever to play in a rock ‘n’ roll band, but he’s also popularly perceived as one of the luckiest, his contributions to a legendary legacy dwarfed by those of John Lennon , Paul McCartney and George Harrison .

If anyone’s due for a re-evaluation in the most famous rock band of all time, it’s Richy Starkey, born 73 years ago in Liverpool. The publication a few weeks ago of Mark Lewisohn’s Tune In ? The Beatles: All These Years, Vol 1, the first of a what is likely to be a definitive three-volume biography, goes a long way toward giving Ringo his due. It’s one of the things I like best about a book that doesn’t just rehash the same old Beatles stories, but deconstructs, revises and sometimes rebuts them. 

Starkey was a sickly child and a ‘no hoper’ student, in Lewisohn’s telling, but he grew into an accomplished girl magnet and one of the best dancers in Liverpool – a guy who could flip, flop and fly the girls on the dancefloor. He ran with a rough crowd ? a gang of Teddy boys – and he could play the drums. At one point, he was playing with as many as three bands a night, so in demand were his skills as a musician who helped bridge the gap between the short-lived skiffle era and rock ‘n’ roll. In 1960, with Ringo Starr on drums, Rory Storm and the Hurricanes were the city’s biggest band. The Beatles coveted Starr’s skills but were somewhat intimidated by him; “he looked the nasty one,” Harrison once said.

He was slightly older than the rest of the Beatles, and even the never-easily-impressed Lennon embraced him as a peer. So did McCartney, saying: “He’s a grown-up, Ringo – always is, always has been. I suspect when he was about three he was a grown-up.” 

League of his own

When the Beatles finally sacked Pete Best and invited Starr to join in 1962, he set up his kit at the first show with his name on the kick drum, not the band’s. That would soon change, but the implication was that Starr didn’t feel at all out of his league in Liverpool’s fastest-rising rock band. They needed him perhaps more than he needed them, given the deficiencies of Best, who was essentially a one-trick basher and was holding them back.

Harrison rhapsodised about Starr’s debut on 18 August 1962: “From that moment on, it gelled – the Beatles just went on to a different level.”

“He was the guy the Beatles always wanted,” Lewisohn told me in a recent interview. “He was everything Pete Best wasn’t … He was rock steady, he could play all the styles…. [His style] was sympathetic to everything they did … It brought an extra element to their songs that was in complete tune with what they were thinking.”

He was the missing piece, even if Beatles producer George Martin didn’t immediately recognizs it. Martin brought in a session drummer to help the Beatles record their first single for EMI, a slight that tainted Ringo’s relationship with the producer for years (though it’s Ringo’s version of Love Me Do that was eventually released as the single’s A-side; Andy White played drums on the B-side, PS I Love You ).

Shape shifter

It also fed into the idea that Starr was somehow not good enough, amplified by Ringo’s own insecurities about joining the inner circle of the tight-knit trio up front. But those doubts evaporated when the band returned to Abbey Road studio two months later to record Please Please Me . There was no studio drummer in place this time, and Ringo’s live-in-the-studio performance with the other three band members exploded out of the speakers. Martin, usually ultra-reserved about such matters, told the band they’d just made a number one record, and he was right.

Starr’s work on the Beatles recordings is astonishing, even if it didn’t jump out in the way the drumming of other ‘60s icons did – the nonstop fury of The Who’s Keith Moon, the African-inspired virtuosity of Cream’s Ginger Baker, the thunderous swing of Led Zeppelin’s John Bonham. Ringo almost never gets name-checked as an innovator, in part because he didn’t play solos (except for the exquisite drum break on The End from the 1969 Abbey Road album). But consider how he makes the complicated shifts in métier sound effortless on Here Comes The Sun , the rolling, proto-metal tom-tom groove of Rain , the tribal dance thump of Tomorrow Never Knows , the hi-hat work on Come Together , the syncopated propulsion of Ticket To Ride .

Starr gave each song exactly what it needed, but he didn’t call attention to himself while doing it. The only thing flash about Ringo were the rings on his fingers, which inspired his nickname, and the mega-watt grin he wore on stage.

“He is nowhere near as flashy as so many drummers, but that isn’t what the musicians wanted,” Lewisohn told me. “He brought his personality to the kit, but he wasn’t flash. The Beatles recorded 215 tracks (between 1962 and 1970) in all these different styles … and how many tracks have bad drumming? The answer is zero.”

Greg Kot is the music critic at the Chicago Tribune. His work can be found here.

 

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

20 December 2013
10.18am
Avatar
fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2929
Member Since:
3 May 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

That’s a good article, parlance, thanks. It’s good to see Richy getting the credit he deserves.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

20 December 2013
1.25pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22212
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

he grew into an accomplished girl magnet and one of the best dancers in Liverpool – a guy who could flip, flop and fly the girls on the dancefloor.

Put that man on Dancing with the Stars (or Starrs…it could be a family affair). Even I would watch the show then.

20 December 2013
4.34pm
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7111
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

fabfouremily said
That’s a good article, parlance, thanks. It’s good to see Richy getting the credit he deserves.

You’re welcome. I wish people wouldn’t dismiss his role in the band.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

21 December 2013
11.26pm
Avatar
IveJustSeenAFaceo
Arrived Somewhere (But Not Here)
Rishikesh
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 2842
Member Since:
1 November 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, I think a lot of people just consider him (and to a lesser extent, George) as a really lucky person to end up in a band with the wonders of Lennon-McCartney. I think there’s a reason they decided Pete Best was not good enough, and Ringo was. Ringo is a really good drummer (which has been acknowledged many times by the others). I mean, listen to Rain and A Day In The Life and tell me Ringo was just lucky. I don’t think they would have been as good with anyone else. I think the Beatles happened because the exact right 4 people came together and made something amazing.

(This signature brought to you by Net Boy and Net Girl. Putting messages in modems since 1996.)

22 December 2013
3.21pm
Avatar
Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea
Moderator

Moderators

Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 22212
Member Since:
20 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, dear Ringo won himself a new fan yesterday. My mom is wondering where he has been all her life. She is totally digging his solo career music.

22 December 2013
11.18pm
Avatar
DrBeatle
The Midwest via Boston
Candlestick Park
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 1595
Member Since:
29 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It was never time to reevaluate him because any real Beatles and/or music fan already knew the truth: the he was just as integral to the band as the other three. Period.

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @rocknrollchem

Facebook: rnrchemist

 

23 December 2013
2.05am
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7111
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

DrBeatle said
It was never time to reevaluate him because any real Beatles and/or music fan already knew the truth: the he was just as integral to the band as the other three. Period.

 

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8heart

 

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

24 December 2013
3.46pm
Avatar
Linde
The Netherlands
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 2781
Member Since:
21 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Exactly. And that article hits the nail on the head. 

3 January 2014
3.07am
Avatar
trcanberra
Oz
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6064
Member Since:
29 August 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

DrBeatle said
It was never time to reevaluate him because any real Beatles and/or music fan already knew the truth: the he was just as integral to the band as the other three. Period.

Couldn’t say it better myself – I wish I had said it myself :)

 

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

12 February 2014
4.01pm
Avatar
parlance
Slaggers
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 7111
Member Since:
8 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

NY Post article along the same lines, albeit way sillier. Apparently the author is working on a bio on Ringo that’s due out 2015.

parlance

Beware of sadness. It can hit you. It can hurt you. Make you sore and what is more, that is not what you are here for. - George

Check out my fan video for Paul's song "Appreciate" at Vimeo or YouTube.

12 February 2014
4.41pm
Avatar
Von Bontee
496 km NW of the '69 Toronto Rock n Roll Revival
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5448
Member Since:
14 December 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think Ringo has been re-evaluated so many times that it’s time for a reverse-backlash!

“IS IT TIME TO RE-RE-EVALUATE RINGO STARR?? Was he really the ‘perfect drummer’ for The Beatles?”

Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.

         

12 February 2014
7.37pm
Avatar
DrBeatle
The Midwest via Boston
Candlestick Park
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 1595
Member Since:
29 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

parlance said
NY Post article along the same lines, albeit way sillier. Apparently the author is working on a bio on Ringo that’s due out 2015.

parlance

Kind of douchey article, but the sentiment is nice all the same. 2015 will be a good year for bios…Paul’s bio by Philip Norman, and now this one.

 

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @rocknrollchem

Facebook: rnrchemist

 

13 February 2014
3.22am
Avatar
C.R.A.
Land of the Rising Sun
Carnegie Hall
Members
Forum Posts: 509
Member Since:
5 February 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

IveJustSeenAFaceo said
Yeah, I think a lot of people just consider him (and to a lesser extent, George) as a really lucky person to end up in a band with the wonders of Lennon-McCartney. I think there’s a reason they decided Pete Best was not good enough, and Ringo was. Ringo is a really good drummer (which has been acknowledged many times by the others). I mean, listen to Rain and A Day In The Life and tell me Ringo was just lucky. I don’t think they would have been as good with anyone else. I think the Beatles happened because the exact right 4 people came together and made something amazing.

I agree; Starr was a drummer who had earned his reputation (especially among his peers) before he became a Beatle.  The continual problem (as the article itself points out) is that people tend to look at Starr in comparison to drummers who came later:

Starr’s work on the Beatles recordings is astonishing, even if it didn’t jump out in the way the drumming of other ‘60s icons did…

To me, it has always been unfair to compare him to drummers who came on the scene later.  Rock and Roll had quickly moved in a new direction and drummers were allowed to be more than just the timekeeper.

In addition to your point about why The Beatles sacked Best for Starr: I believe they had wanted Starr for quite awhile but  lacked the impetus to make the move.  Martin’s critique of Best just added that final straw.  They wanted Starr not only because of his skill, but also because they liked the guy.  They could have had their choice from among any number of drummers, but they wanted him.  And I think it’s safe to say the feeling was mutual.  They got on, as the cliche goes.

Cringing at the sheer corn here, but… he completed them.

And I think that speaks volumes.

14 February 2014
4.49pm
Avatar
Mr. Kite
910 Penny Lane, Strawberry Fields, Pepperland
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 6147
Member Since:
4 February 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

trcanberra said

DrBeatle said
It was never time to reevaluate him because any real Beatles and/or music fan already knew the truth: the he was just as integral to the band as the other three. Period.

Couldn’t say it better myself – I wish I had said it myself :)

  

Ditto apple01

If I spoke prose you'd all find out, I don't know what I talk about.

Can buy Joe love!
If you're shopping at one of these two websites use the links below to support the Beatles Bible:

Amazon | iTunes

14 February 2014
5.23pm
Avatar
DrBeatle
The Midwest via Boston
Candlestick Park
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 1595
Member Since:
29 November 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Well, thank you guys! a-hard-days-night-john-6

"I know you, you know me; one thing I can tell you is you got to be free!"

 

Please Visit My Website, The Rock and Roll Chemist

Twitter: @rocknrollchem

Facebook: rnrchemist

 

14 February 2014
5.55pm
Avatar
Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9832
Member Since:
14 April 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

parlance shared:

Starr gave each song exactly what it needed, but he didn’t call attention to himself while doing it. The only thing flash about Ringo were the rings on his fingers, which inspired his nickname, and the mega-watt grin he wore on stage.
 
Mark Lewisohn: “He brought his personality to the kit, but he wasn’t flash. The Beatles recorded 215 tracks (between 1962 and 1970) in all these different styles … and how many tracks have bad drumming? The answer is zero.”

parlance

BIG SMILE from yours truly. Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate those who keep re-evaluating Ringo – if they were worth the trouble, that is.

Richy rules.a-hard-days-night-ringo-15

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 700
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16105
Ron Nasty: 12534
Zig: 9832
50yearslate: 8759
Necko: 8043
AppleScruffJunior: 7583
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6402
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2859
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5510
Posts: 380339
Newest Members:
frankc, viv@nelsontraining.co.uk, bornhairyman, frankkilmore123@gmail.com, onlyanorthernsong
Moderators: Joe: 5691, meanmistermustard: 24950, Ahhh Girl: 22212, Beatlebug: 18181, The Hole Got Fixed: 8410
Administrators: Joe: 5691