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Why didn't Paul ever marry Jane?
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23 May 2018
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Duke_of_Kirkcaldy
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Indeed, I've never wanted kids, so the main purpose of the act is largely lost on me. Sure, it's pleasurable, but it's also incredibly temporary. I'd much rather listen to a great album or two or watch a great movie. mccartney-shrug_01_gif

24 May 2018
5.27am
Saltie
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Penny Lane said

Ron Nasty said
[... Paul couldn't keep his pants zipped, and then we're on "Why couldn't Paul keep his pants zipped when he had Jane?" ] 

A question you could ask about all of them I suppose, especially George with Maureen. At least Paul had the excuse that Jane wasn't there for a lot of the time, even when she was, I think the relationship seemed too well behaved and tame to keep him from straying.

Paul Newman is quoted as replying when asked about all the temptations on offer, why go out for hamburger when you have steak at home. Not sure  many stars live by that maxim.  

When you look at all of Paul's songs of love and angst about his relationship with Jane, and how often it was described as tempestuous, well behaved and tame would be the last words I'd call it. I'd say homely would be a better fit for Paul and Linda if anything. Paul probably didn't cheat when he was actually with Jane, and likely not to have given much thought to other women. He didn't seem prepared to give her up for any of them, including Linda. It's interesting that Paul ended his relationship with his pre-Beatles girlfriend telling her he wanted to "play the field", thinking this was the proper thing to do. He apparently regretted it and missed the intimacy of a relationship. I'd say that when he met and fell for Jane he decided not to repeat his mistake thinking he could have his cake and eat it.

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24 May 2018
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SunKing said
You make a good point @Ron Nasty and I defer to your more knowledgeable opinion which you've laid out well. It does seem odd that the relationship with Asher accelerated toward the end with an engagement. There are many ways to speculate - that faced with the feeling they were drifting they instead tried one large gesture to keep going, thinking marriage may resolve it, or perhaps they felt their years together deemed they get engaged.  Maybe Paul even pulled out a proposal to make amends after a previous infidelity. 

The John/Yoko situation always seemed more understandable to me because the marriage to Cynthia was driven to some extent by the pregnancy, and Yoko was so unique as to be tantalizing to John in way that probably made Cynthia appear conventional by unfair comparison, and John's looking for the next big thing is well known.  But the Paul/Jane/Linda doesn't seem to have such a stark difference.  And it's unclear even to this day how much of this was Paul's decision and how much was Jane's.  

I'm sure Paul and Jane got engaged because they wanted to. It's been said that the Beatles never properly went through the last stages of growing up during the tumultuous years of Beatlemania and that they felt old before their time. I would say Paul desperately wanted to start a family - John and Ringo were fathers, George was married, and here was Paul, best man at his younger brother's wedding who was about to become a father before him. Paul, at 25, must of thought that life really was passing him by and may have been putting considerable pressure on Jane, just 22, to finally give up her career and start producing babies. The relationship just seemed to implode then at the same time the Beatles also started unravelling. It can't be just coincidence that the first thing Paul asked Maggie McGivern was the baby question (she misinterpreted the question), and then Linda (said she'd be honoured).

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Saltie said

When you look at all of Paul's songs of love and angst about his relationship with Jane, and how often others described it as tempestuous, well behaved and tame would be the last words I'd call it. I'd say homely would be a better fit for Paul and Linda if anything. Paul probably didn't cheat when he was actually with Jane, and likely not to have given much thought to other women...]  

Jane was also unfaithful when she was worked at the Bristol Old Vic.  Paul had  one night stands and a long term relationship with Maggie McGivern while being with Jane.

Paul reports 'liking'Jane and that they got on well (not the most inspiring description of the love of your life) but that they never really clicked. They were a golden couple for the media  and Paul's need for approval prolonged it. I think he enjoyed the relationship with her family too. Marianne Faithfull observed his and Jane's relationship as  quite tense and almost like an act. Linda's "womanliness" and skills as a single  mother as well as her work was something  he admired.  He came from a loving family and wanted that for himself. I think he made the right choice.

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24 May 2018
7.09pm
Saltie
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Penny Lane said

Jane was also unfaithful when she was worked at the Bristol Old Vic.  Paul had  one night stands and a long term relationship with Maggie McGivern while being with Jane.

Paul reports 'liking'Jane and that they got on well (not the most inspiring description of the love of your life) but that they never really clicked. They were a golden couple for the media  and Paul's need for approval prolonged it. I think he enjoyed the relationship with her family too. Marianne Faithfull observed his and Jane's relationship as  quite tense and almost like an act. Linda's "womanliness" and skills as a single  mother as well as her work was something  he admired.  He came from a loving family and wanted that for himself. I think he made the right choice.  

The old media couple myth again. Out of all the hundreds of muck racking, salacious tomes written about the Beatles, not one has managed to come up with a name associated with Jane supposedly "cheating" with Paul. She may have seen someone during one of the couple's off times, but that hardly constitutes cheating. It seems that too many want to let McCartney off the hook. Because he knew McGivern over a period of three years, that doesn't mean he had a long term relationship with her. Her account of being with Paul mainly seems to apply during the period after Jane walked. Marianne Faithfull's observation: wouldn't anyone be tense if they had uninvited guests dropping in at all times of the day and night? Hunter Davies, in the only authorised biography of the Beatles, stated that Paul and Jane were a very loving couple and that everyone agreed on this. Perhaps Paul should have been awarded an Oscar for his amazing acting skills.

McCartney is always going to be emotionally dishonest about his time with Asher - he constantly trips over himself (we got on very well, followed by we didn't click - they contradict each other), and admits he wrote For No One and You Won't See Me about her (hardly the sort of songs you write about someone you merely "like"). He talks retrospectively to protect himself. It was very difficult for Jane (and the other women) to be pushed out of the inner circle of the Beatles, and to feel constantly sidelined. Give her some credit for seeing out the relationship for so long. If anyone thinks the post Beatle women could have done any better then they are deluding themselves. In the end if McCartney wanted a somewhat self-serving relationship based on sex, drugs and rock n' roll, then Linda was the right one. But for me, Paul was never quite the same person again.

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Saltie said

[... Out of all the hundreds of muck racking, salacious tomes written about the Beatles, not one has managed to come up with a name associated with Jane supposedly "cheating" with Paul. Not one. She may have seen someone during one of the couple's off times, but that hardly constitutes cheating. It seems that too many want to let McCartney off the hook...]   [.. And because he knew McGivern over a period of three years, that doesn't mean he had a long term relationship with her. Her account of being with Paul mainly seems to apply during the period after Jane walked...] [...McCartney is always going to be emotionally dishonest about his time with Asher...]  

Haven't read any salacious tomes on the Beatles, unfortunately. You are right, no one has come up with a name of this Bristol boyfriend (would anyone be interested anyway?) and unless you count them being in a separate location, wasn't off time. He did write love songs inspired by Jane, an interesting one about his local meter maid and of course more than a few were inspired by Linda. I can't agree about Paul's "emotional" dishonesty about it. Isn't it just his opinion, with the perspective of time? They drifted apart, had different friends, she didn't like the Robert Fraser crowd and all the drugs. Jane has  never discussed her relationship to the press, but she did spectacularly well when she publicly dumped him, hitting him where it hurts most (in the PR department) and good for her. She kept her dignity and her career.

The relationship with Maggie was long term, managed to stay covert (unless you were Epstein or other Beatles).

Saltie said
 If anyone thinks the post Beatle women could have done any better then they are deluding themselves. And yes, in the end if McCartney wanted a somewhat self-serving relationship based on sex, drugs and rock n' roll, then Linda was the right one. But for me, Paul was never quite the same person again.  

Yes, Paul wasn't the same person, he had grown up a bit and was lucky enough to find another great woman.
  

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26 May 2018
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Penny Lane said

Saltie said

[... Out of all the hundreds of muck racking, salacious tomes written about the Beatles, not one has managed to come up with a name associated with Jane supposedly "cheating" with Paul. She may have seen someone during one of the couple's off times, but that hardly constitutes cheating. It seems that too many want to let McCartney off the hook...]   [.. Because he knew McGivern over a period of three years, that doesn't mean he had a long term relationship with her. Her account of being with Paul mainly seems to apply during the period after Jane walked...] [...McCartney is always going to be emotionally dishonest about his time with Asher...]  

Haven't read any salacious tomes on the Beatles, unfortunately. You are right, no one has come up with a name of this Bristol boyfriend (would anyone be interested anyway?) and unless you count them being in a separate location, wasn't off time. He did write love songs inspired by Jane, an interesting one about his local meter maid and of course more than a few were inspired by Linda. I can't agree about Paul's "emotional" dishonesty about it. Isn't it just his opinion, with the perspective of time? They drifted apart, had different friends, she didn't like the Robert Fraser crowd and all the drugs. Jane has  never discussed her relationship to the press, but she did spectacularly well when she publicly dumped him, hitting him where it hurts most (in the PR department) and good for her. She kept her dignity and her career.

The relationship with Maggie was long term, managed to stay covert (unless you were Epstein or other Beatles).

Saltie said
 If anyone thinks the post Beatle women could have done any better then they are deluding themselves. In the end if McCartney wanted a somewhat self-serving relationship based on sex, drugs and rock n' roll, then Linda was the right one. But for me, Paul was never quite the same person again.  

Yes, Paul wasn't the same person, he had grown up a bit and was lucky enough to find another great woman.
    

The Bristol boyfriend was a Paul invention - from the perspective of time of course - and regarding the relationship with Maggie McGivern, it was stated quite openly in the British press in 1966, that Paul did date other girls but that he much preferred the company of Jane Asher. If covert it was still deceitful. Why do people think that Jane had no knowledge of her - has anyone asked her? Just how truthful is McGivern's account anyway? We don't know, because Jane refuses to talk about her time with Paul; unfortunately Paul doesn't do the same. He is entitled to his opinion, but he has often been derogatory and demeaning in his comments about Jane. Pretty unnecessary, if his marriage to Linda was as strong and secure as it was made out to be. He was asked by Howard Stern how he managed to sleep with Jane behind her mother's back while living with the Ashers, to which Paul smugly replied it was no problem. That was disrespectful and insensitive, not only to Jane, but to her late parents (who probably did turn a blind eye but attitudes were still different then) who had invited Paul into their home. It is Paul who continues to associate his name with Jane's, not the other way round. Grown up? 

I think it's pretty below the belt to suggest Jane did spectacularly well after "publicly" dumping Paul. She was asked about her engagement and she answered truthfully. Their supposed lack of compatibility was unlikely: why stay together for five years if they have absolutely nothing in common. There are plenty of long and happy relationships where people have separate interests. Makes them more interesting. So Jane wasn't into drugs. Perhaps she was concerned about Paul's welfare - what a crime. The relationship broke under extremely difficult circumstances, of which we know absolutely nothing about. John, George and Ringo's marriages ended too, despite them being "compatible".

It seems that too many people get some sort of perverse enjoyment from the dismissal of Jane Asher. Countless books and press articles have thrived on this for too long. She didn't ask to be compared with Linda McCartney so don't take it out on her if people don't like what they read. She has certainly moved on, but you can't take away her time with the Paul and her influence on him. It is the Beatles that will go down in history, not Wings, not John and Yoko, not any post Beatles stuff, and certainly not Paul and Ringo and their never ending nostalgia tours.

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26 May 2018
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Good post from Saltie.  It's a fine line, I guess, between "Paul is a fantastic guy all around" and "Paul is an asshole" -- somewhere in between these unrealistic extremes probably lies the truth...

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27 May 2018
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Saltie
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Thanks. I think he realises he can be insensitive.

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