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Paul's activism
24 September 2014
1.21pm
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Starr Shine?
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^ what does eating veggies have to do with climate change? 

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24 September 2014
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Ahhh Girl
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Annadog40 said

^ what does eating veggies have to do with climate change? 

Cows produce lots of greenhouse gasses that contrubute to global warming. http://www.un.org/apps/news/st.....CK-M6NOmTk

So, eating vegetables would cut down on the need for so many cows in the world which would cut down on greenhouse gas emissions and thus reduce global warming.

I'm not going to put my thoughts on the matter here. I just wanted to try to answer your question.

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24 September 2014
3.36pm
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fabfouremily
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Indeed, the UN have calculated that emissions by animals make up 18% of the total global total (in fact, some say it could be as much as 51%). More here: fao

Something else to bear in mind is that approximately 30% of land surface suitable for agriculture is used to raise livestock or provide their food and water, and that 70% of water available to us goes on farming. As the population increases, so does demand - which means less water for drinking. Deforestation is another issue, but I won't rattle on too much.

Eating meat has more consequences than many like to think about.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

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24 September 2014
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Ron Nasty
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@fabfouremily (good to see you here), the problems of the contribution of animals to climate change is an interesting one.

Cows are often cited as they produce so many gasses. So, it is often suggested we cut down on beef consumption. The implicit suggestion is that if we eat less beef, there will be less need for the cows that cause the problem.

There is one country in the world has a cattle population of 281,700,000 (which is 28.29% of the world total). That country is not one of the big meat producers like the United States (96,669,000), but India, where cows are sacred and not slaughtered.

This problem is often portrayed as being the fault of meat eaters, demanding more meat all the time. Whereas you could argue, meat eaters provide a built-in cull to the amount of cattle. Farmers try not to produce than they can sell as that crashes the price.

More of a problem, it seems to me, are those countries, like India, that do not control the numbers. And that has nothing to do with meat consumption, but religious belief.

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The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

24 September 2014
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fabfouremily
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If only 28.29% of cows are in India, then surely that is not more of a problem than the remaining 71.71% that are spread around the rest of the world? Not even to mention other animals.

The thing is, trying to do something about cattle in India would be dangerous ground - do we have the right to tell them to control cattle breeding if they consider the animal to be sacred?

This problem is often portrayed as being the fault of meat eaters, demanding more meat all the time. Whereas you could argue, meat eaters provide a built-in cull to the amount of cattle. Farmers try not to produce than they can sell as that crashes the price.

How do they, if meat eaters eat beef produced in Europe and America? Cows in India die through natural causes, so that's another issue entirely. If demand for beef decreased, so too would the amount of cattle (and, therefore, the amount of gasses released into the atmosphere).

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

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24 September 2014
5.17pm
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^ If less people eat beef, what would happen to the excess cows? What are the top ten sourses for the greanhouse gasses? 

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24 September 2014
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What excess cows? If we gradually ate less and less beef, farmers would breed less and less cattle (for the reason RN gives above).

Greenhouse gases come from burning fuel and coal (be it to put in your car, for heating or for use in industry) and from animals such as cows and sheep. Don't think I'm missing anything. Which of these things produces the most? Well, that depends on who you believe. We don't know for sure what percentage of gases come from what.

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24 September 2014
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I am not suggesting it is more of a problem, just that it is a part of the problem, and a part of the problem that is often ignored. India was the example, but the situation is similar in many other countries with large - or majority - Hindu or Jain populations. The reality is that somewhere between 30-40% of cattle in the world are in countries where they considered sacred, with little or no control put on their numbers.

I would suggest, so far as domesticated animals go, for any one country to have approaching 30% of the world total of that animal is huge. I can think of no other domesticated animal where such a large percentage of the world population is concentrated in a single country. And it has to be remembered, the cattle population in India is always growing, some die but more are born.

I was making the point that it is often simplistic to look at one cause for something. If beef were to be banned tomorrow (and I used cattle as my example purely because of the fact they are the big gas emitters of the domesticated animals, and the animal most often cited in these arguments), followed by a cull of all cattle farmed for meat across the planet, and those countries where the cow is sacred carried on as they are, we would be back to the current world population of cattle we now have by the end of the century.

If cattle emissions are a problem, and I accept that they are, there is no difference between the problem created by sacred cows versus meat cows, and it is sacred cows that have the growing population, while meat cows are maintained at roughly the same numbers.

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The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

24 September 2014
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fabfouremily
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Well, you did say:

More of a problem, it seems to me, are those countries, like India, that do not control the numbers. And that has nothing to do with meat consumption, but religious belief.

Perhaps I shouldn't have taken it so literally.

There is no difference between sacred cows and cows for human consumption, no. Well, the only difference I see is that we can reduce the latter - all of us, by eating less beef - quite easily, whereas if we were to try and reduce the former, we'd be getting ourselves into a completely different argument (that of whether we should tell the government of countries where cows are sacred to control the number of them, whether we have a right to).

Anyway, you've raised a valuable point. We're all to blame for the way the world's going, albeit perhaps for slightly different reasons.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

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24 September 2014
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^ even if we eat less beef Thai are still a lot of animal by products like milk, Cheese, and gelatin. What would happen to the people whos livelihood depends on cows? If people stopped eating beef the cows would still be around for their by products

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24 September 2014
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My saying it is "more of a problem" was purely in the way the subjects are addressed. There is an ongoing discussion about meat cattle, and an in-built control of their numbers. To me it seems there is no discussion of the number of cattle in the countries where they are held sacred. As sacred populations continue to grow, they become an increasing part of the problem. Were we to go on as we are, it is a matter of decades before the amount of sacred cattle outstrips the amount of meat cattle in the world.

We challenge many parts of the world on things based on religion or culture which we consider have no place in the modern world (child marriage and female genital mutilation are just two examples), so I fail to see why control of cattle population should be exempt.

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24 September 2014
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@Starr Shine? said
^ even if we eat less beef Thai are still a lot of animal by products like milk, Cheese, and gelatin. What would happen to the people whos livelihood depends on cows? If people stopped eating beef the cows would still be around for their by products

Beef cows, while gelatin is harvested from them at time of slaughter, do not produce milk or cheese. There are meat herds and dairy herds. Here I have been talking about meat herds. Gelatin can be, and is, harvested from dairy cattle at slaughter, though the animals themselves do not enter the food chain. There are also vegetarian replacements for gelatin.

The effect on those who rear cattle for meat is a valid one, but hasn't that always been there when it comes to the production of goods. And it gets more-so as technology moves on. Is there any car factory that employs the same amount of workers now to produce, say a thousand cars, as they did in 1950? Even farms have employed less and less people as technology has marched on. Dairy herds were once milked by hand, which took many hands, and now it is done by machine. Harvest used to about many hands, the school summer holiday was fixed around the children being needed for harvest, but now it is largely industrialised.

The world changes, jobs disappear, new jobs appear. That has always been the way of it.

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24 September 2014
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Ron Nasty said
My saying it is "more of a problem" was purely in the way the subjects are addressed. There is an ongoing discussion about meat cattle, and an in-built control of their numbers. To me it seems there is no discussion of the number of cattle in the countries where they are held sacred. As sacred populations continue to grow, they become an increasing part of the problem. Were we to go on as we are, it is a matter of decades before the amount of sacred cattle outstrips the amount of meat cattle in the world.

We challenge many parts of the world on things based on religion or culture which we consider have no place in the modern world (child marriage and female genital mutilation are just two examples), so I fail to see why control of cattle population should be exempt.

 

Then I misunderstood what you meant.

I agree with you, I think this issue should be raised. I was simply making the point that we'd have to 'tread carefully' as it's to do with their religion.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

24 September 2014
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Have to admit, I'm no vegetarian.  I love a good steak on the barbie or sausage & eggs, or Pork chops, or Chicken, ect....

Am I making anyone hungry???

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25 September 2014
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Aside from the problem of sacred cows for gas emissions, there is also the rather disconcerting (to say the least) spectacle of millions of humans starving in a land (India) of so many million cows.

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25 September 2014
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So what do we plan to do with the excess cows that are producing gases? Kill them? What should be the world cow limit?

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25 September 2014
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Annadog40 said
So what do we plan to do with the excess cows that are producing gases? Kill them? What should be the world cow limit?

Just have a huge BBQ inviting anyone who is available and likes a steak or hamburger. Limit? I'd say about 5,000 is the total with every cow that dies replaced by another - all stamped, tagged and computer ID'd 1 to 5,000 so if #768 dies the replacement cow is also #768. 

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5 October 2014
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http://danspapers.com/2014/10/.....-mcgumbus/

Can't win 'em all.

McGumbus vs. Sir Paul
Old Man McGumbus, Shelter Island’s 104-year-old WWII veteran and dried meat magnate, was arrested on Monday for littering offenses related to his feud with Sir Paul McCartney . McCartney, the former Beatle, Amagansett resident and longtime vegetarian, had recently called upon his fans to observe “Meat-Free Monday.” This infuriated McGumbus, who has long been promoting “All-Meat Mondays” at his chain of discount jerky parlors. McGumbus is charged with dropping anti-McCartney leaflets across Amagansett from his Sopwith Bi-Plane. McCartney had no comment at press time.

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15 November 2014
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New Telegraph interview with Paul about his vegetarian and environmental activism.

parlance

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LongHairedLady

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15 November 2014
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I love the "Meat-Free Monday" campaign.  I'm a vegetarian and I'm not pushy at all.  I don't care if people eat meat and I don't bother them about their eating habits…  even though most people don't do me the same pleasure and make the same stupid jokes "What do you eat?  LETTUCE?"… ahdn_paul_01

One day a week isn't a huge commitment IMO.  As a kid we did it and didn't even realize it.  We would have something like Spaghetti with no meat and it didn't seem like the meal was lacking or anything.  It really does make a difference.

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