Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Lennon's snide mockery of Paul's RAM cover
4 January 2018
1.14am
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It was so long ago, I forgot I started this thread, so I was about to put up the photo of John mocking Paul's Ram cover but then I checked and saw it was my former self who beat me to the punch...

The following people thank Pineapple Records for this post:

Father McKenzie, Beatlebug, SgtPeppersBulldog, penny lane

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

4 January 2018
10.12am
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4339
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It was my old avatar. 

The following people thank sir walter raleigh for this post:

Beatlebug, Father McKenzie, Pineapple Records, SgtPeppersBulldog

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

14 January 2018
7.32pm
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1106
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Not sure if this has been discussed on another thread, so I'll post it here. 

Does anyone else find the fact that Paul sent strange notes to people through the mail slightly, what's the word..... creepy? I seem to remember reading that he'd sent one to John, referring to Yoko as a 'Jap tart', and when John mentioned it to him,Paul rather nonchalantly said "oh yeah, I sent that", like it was completely normal to do that or something.

 

He also sent one to an Apple employees wife, telling her to tell her husband to "obey the pay masters" or something similar. I find that kind of thing really creepy and fucked up, I don't know about anyone else lol. 

 

I'm just trying to imagine how I'd feel if I got a note like that from someone I know, and I don't think I'd be too happy about it

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

14 January 2018
8.21pm
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Father McKenzie said
Not sure if this has been discussed on another thread, so I'll post it here. 

Does anyone else find the fact that Paul sent strange notes to people through the mail slightly, what's the word..... creepy? I seem to remember reading that he'd sent one to John, referring to Yoko as a 'Jap tart', and when John mentioned it to him,Paul rather nonchalantly said "oh yeah, I sent that", like it was completely normal to do that or something.

 

He also sent one to an Apple employees wife, telling her to tell her husband to "obey the pay masters" or something similar. I find that kind of thing really creepy and fucked up, I don't know about anyone else lol. 

 

I'm just trying to imagine how I'd feel if I got a note like that from someone I know, and I don't think I'd be too happy about it  

Interesting stuff; I'd never before heard Paul did that. Do you have a link to a site that provides evidence for this and more instances of these weird letters? Thanks

The following people thank Pineapple Records for this post:

sir walter raleigh

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

14 January 2018
9.41pm
Avatar
Ron Nasty
Apple rooftop
Members

Reviewers
Forum Posts: 9165
Member Since:
17 December 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

@Father McKenzie @Pineapple Records

The claim about the John incident comes from Francie Schwartz, who Paul had a brief fling in 1968 (it was she that Jane Asher walked in on with Paul in bed).

According to Schwartz, while John and Yoko were staying at Cavendish Avenue in the summer of 1968, Paul typed them an unsigned letter reading, "You and your Jap tart think you're shit hot", which he had her bring in with the morning mail. John stuck it on the mantelpiece, and when Paul saw it there later, he's said to have said to John, "Oh, I just did that for a lark...".

Shortly after John and Yoko moved out of Cavendish Avenue and into Ringo's vacant Montagu Square flat.

Schwartz claims this was a pivotal moment in the disintegration of John and Paul's relationship.

The question which arises is whether, as the sole source, Schwartz is believable.

Myself, I find her an extremely unreliable witness who was looking to make money from a brief relationship that ended badly.

The biggest reason to doubt the truth of her story, in my opinion, is John himself. He never mentioned this incident once.

When he was tearing into the other Beatles during the 1970 Rolling Stone interview about their treatment of him and Yoko, and the racism he perceived in the treatment of the couple by many, not a mention of this incident; that's despite the fact it would have hugely bolstered his argument about their mistreatment by Paul.

I just cannot believe that, in the days when John was using everything he could against Paul, taking no prisoners, he would have not mentioned such a damning incident as this.

This thread is a short discussion of Schwartz's book that contained the accusation, with Joe helpfully including a scan of the pages that relate the incident. 

The following people thank Ron Nasty for this post:

Father McKenzie, Ahhh Girl, Pineapple Records, Rachel

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

 

The Beatles Non-Canon Poll List

15 January 2018
2.57am
Avatar
Father McKenzie
Liverpool England
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1106
Member Since:
14 November 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks @Ron Nasty. Sorry for the delay (blame the time difference) a-hard-days-night-george-10. Yeah, I totally understand how Schwartz could be unreliable, especially with the way it ended with Paul (she started crying after he told her they were over, and Paul apparently said "don't cry, I'm a cunt"). I can understand how she'd be extremely upset,as she was probably in love with him, and he basically used her to end the relationship with Asher. 

In @Joe's book, he mentions how Paul sent memos to Derek Taylor's team, because he was suspicious of them, and didn't like the fact that Taylor was using drugs during working hours. 'One was a drawing of two drunk men in a bar, with the caption 'We probably don't want a press department, do we'?' The inference there is pretty clear.

Re my post above,the message he sent was to Joan Taylor (Derek's wife) and it said 'Tell your boy to obey the schoolmasters', and he signed it 'Patron'.

Thanks guys, and also @Joe,as I've just reached that part in his book

The following people thank Father McKenzie for this post:

Pineapple Records, Joe

Still writing the words to the sermon that no one will hear......

15 January 2018
9.20pm
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks @Father McKenzie and @Ron Nasty.  Both make good cases; the former's info from Joe's book indicates Paul had a habit of doing such things, while the latter's argument about John is compelling. One possible factor in favor of believing Schwartz is that the detail is so bizarre, unless she had an unusually fertile imagination, it's unlikely she'd come up with something that novel.

The following people thank Pineapple Records for this post:

Father McKenzie

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

19 January 2018
10.33am
Avatar
Joe
Pepperland
Admin
Forum Posts: 5039
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

It's all but impossible to know how accurate that incident in Body Count is, unless you can get McCartney and Ono on the record about it, and even then we might still be no closer to the truth. I know a lot of people have an axe to grind with Francie Schwartz, and some of the invective she's received online makes me want to believe her even more, if only because she resolutely stands her ground. People seem predisposed to hate her, but I'd rather be a bit less knee-jerk in my judgements. What if she's actually telling the truth, however unpalatable?

As regards the book, I do try to make it clear that she's quite a divisive figure, and her memoir isn't widely accepted. The suggestion being that you should draw your own conclusions. That's a principle I tried to maintain throughout the book – rather than say "This is the truth" I'd rather say "Here's something which is supposed to have happened; draw your own conclusions." That's one of the problems with relying on anecdote and recall; they're naturally flawed, but often the best we can do without having primary evidence, and I'm fairly sure there weren't audio or video devices running 24/7 in Cavendish Avenue.

The following people thank Joe for this post:

Father McKenzie, TheWalrusWasBrian, Pineapple Records

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes
Or buy my paperback/ebook! Riding So High – The Beatles and Drugs

Don't miss The Bowie Bible – now live!

20 January 2018
2.52am
Avatar
Pineapple Records
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 844
Member Since:
14 May 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Joe seems to have an open-minded attitude about the whole thing (a rare quality perhaps on the Internet!). One can always say Francie Schwartz, being a rejected girlfriend, was just bitter and getting back at Paul; but the way she articulates things indicates to me that this would be a gross over-simplification.

A ginger sling with a pineapple heart,

a coffee dessert, yes you know it's good news...

20 January 2018
7.22am
Avatar
Billy Rhythm
Shea Stadium
Members
Forum Posts: 941
Member Since:
22 December 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

While the 'How Do You Sleep?' record is downright vicious (John does direct the C-word towards Paul during the filming), the 'Imagine ' postcard & 'RAM's beetle pic are more along the lines of having a bit of fun, in my opinion...  While Linda McCartney could persuade just about anybody to pose for her back in the 70s, I highly doubt that she convinced them two beetles to perform a lewd act for Paul's cover...  I was treated to a similar shot (video actually) this past summer of two bees doing it in midair that a friend was "fortunate" to have front row seats for...  I mean, we come across these curios in life and the reaction is almost universally the same, laughter...  Linda captured a moment that both of them found funny and wanted to share...  Paul very conceivably could've thought "John's gonna love this!" but I never got the feeling that it was vindictive...  John's postcard with the pig echoes the same sentiment, in my opinion...

 

I'm not sure if many of you are familiar with this recording from John's 31st Birthday Party but there doesn't seem to be much negativity evident even as John's "snide mockery" extends to jamming out a song from the same album:

 

 

Ron Nasty said 

According to Schwartz, while John and Yoko were staying at Cavendish Avenue in the summer of 1968, Paul typed them an unsigned letter reading, "You and your Jap tart think you're shit hot", which he had her bring in with the morning mail. John stuck it on the mantelpiece, and when Paul saw it there later, he's said to have said to John, "Oh, I just did that for a lark...".

Shortly after John and Yoko moved out of Cavendish Avenue and into Ringo's vacant Montagu Square flat.

Schwartz claims this was a pivotal moment in the disintegration of John and Paul's relationship.

The question which arises is whether, as the sole source, Schwartz is believable.

Myself, I find her an extremely unreliable witness who was looking to make money from a brief relationship that ended badly.

The biggest reason to doubt the truth of her story, in my opinion, is John himself. He never mentioned this incident once.

When he was tearing into the other Beatles during the 1970 Rolling Stone interview about their treatment of him and Yoko, and the racism he perceived in the treatment of the couple by many, not a mention of this incident; that's despite the fact it would have hugely bolstered his argument about their mistreatment by Paul.

I just cannot believe that, in the days when John was using everything he could against Paul, taking no prisoners, he would have not mentioned such a damning incident as this.
 

 

There's a lot of things that John could've used that "would have bolstered his argument about their mistreatment by Paul" and never did...  He never told the press the story about how they lost control of Northern Songs either...  That would've been much more effective than Schwartz' story in persuading the press, in my opinion...:-)

The following people thank Billy Rhythm for this post:

Father McKenzie, SgtPeppersBulldog
2 April 2018
12.09am
Avatar
Timothy
Nutopia
Hollywood Bowl
Members
Forum Posts: 761
Member Since:
14 June 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

You get hurt only by people who occupy a big part of your heart. The more it hurts, the more important the person is. I think this applies to John and Paul. The end of the Beatles had an impact on them. They both had different types of personalities and different ways of expressing pain. But I don’t ever think they outright hated each other. I’m sure they both always respected the time they shared together, regardless of how the band ended. John said as much during an interview, where he compares it to fighting with a brother. And the fact they basically reconciled near the end says it all. 

The following people thank Timothy for this post:

SgtPeppersBulldog, penny lane

1.The Beatles 2.Sgt. Pepper 3.Abbey Road 4.Magical Mystery Tour 5.Rubber Soul 6.Revolver 7.Help! 8.Let It Be
9.A Hard Day’s Night 10.Please Please Me 11.Beatles For Sale 12.With The Beatles 13.Yellow Submarine

7 April 2018
5.44am
Avatar
penny lane
This most excellent canopy
Abbey Road
Members
Forum Posts: 98
Member Since:
18 September 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Billy Rhythm said

[...I'm not sure if many of you are familiar with this recording from John's 31st Birthday Party but there doesn't seem to be much negativity evident even as John's "snide mockery" extends to jamming out a song from the same album: 

To be fair Lennon did say he quite liked the Hands across the water  section from Uncle Albert /Admiral Halsey   whilst slagging off the rest of the song and album. But as a single it had gone to No.1 in the U.S in September 1971. Fast forward a month or so to Lennon's birthday party (the evening of the This Is Not Here Exhibition in Syracuse)  it would be good to think there weren't any snidey digs about the song, but not so sure given who was there and on this clip, can you here a tiny bit of the song followed by someone shouting no more shit?? I don't know. The song won McCartney an award so was he bothered?

I think this is a clip form the film Three Friends by Jonas Mekas  showing the birthday party, you can see Phil Spector, Ringo and Maureen, Allen Ginsberg, Clapton is supposed to be there, not sure about that, first time I saw it, I thought Dylan was sitting with a guitar too, but I think his hair is too short for 1971:

 Image result for images of bowie and iggy pop

Tomorrow  belongs to those who can hear it coming.

Forum Timezone: America/Chicago
Most Users Ever Online: 597
Currently Online: The Hole Got Fixed
1
Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 15555
Beatlebug: 14118
Ron Nasty: 9165
Necko: 7838
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6403
The Hole Got Fixed: 6286
Mr. Kite: 6148
trcanberra: 6045
AppleScruffJunior: 5914
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 87
Members: 2658
Moderators: 4
Admins: 2
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 4707
Posts: 315748
Newest Members:
countdizzy, settlementhome, CrAbbeyRoad, renaldo, al
Moderators: Joe: 5039, Zig: 9806, meanmistermustard: 21974, Ahhh Girl: 17800
Administrators: Joe: 5039, Ellie: 4