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Paul McCartney bootlegs, B-Sides, and Movie/Collab Tracks
3 February 2015
10.49pm
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meanmistermustard
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Expert Textpert said
Real music is where the artists are intelligent and write their own music, and actually put thought into the music, instead of singing songs written by some corporate hack because they know it will make money, or using a formula that is tried and true to get mindless teens “shaking their asses.”

I don’t see the point of Paul collaborating with these artists unless he is planning to dumb down his music for the masses. Maybe we can see a video of him twerking with Miley Cyrus, or he can have a rap album or two, or he could do a dance video with Katy Perry or something.

So every song sung by girl/boy groups or individuals pre-Beatles which were written by partnerships such as Hal David and Burt Bacharach or Gerry Goffin and Carole King are not real music? Or doesnt that count because its not nowadays?

John and Paul even wrote to a kind of formula at the beginning having been inspired by such partnerships.

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Starr Shine?, Ron Nasty

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3 February 2015
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Expert Textpert said
Real music is where the artists are intelligent and write their own music, and actually put thought into the music,and actually put thought into the music, instead of singing songs written by some corporate hack because they know it will make money, or using a formula that is tried and true to get mindless teens “shaking their asses.”

I don’t see the point of Paul collaborating with these artists unless he is planning to dumb down his music for the masses. Maybe we can see a video of him twerking with Miley Cyrus, or he can have a rap album or two, or he could do a dance video with Katy Perry or something.

I don’t see why he can’t write and put thought into his music just because it’s rap. Rap isn’t all created by corporate hacks.

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3 February 2015
11.11pm
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meanmistermustard
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Elvis shook his legs, Beatles shook their heads, Miley shakes her ass. 

Personally i have the same interest in Yoko’s music as i do Mileys.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

3 February 2015
11.12pm
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Ron Nasty
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By your definition, @Expert Textpert, Elvis would not be considered to be a musician who created real music, or someone like Tina Turner. There are, and always have been, plenty of gifted musicians who have had to largely rely on the songs of others because they just can’t write a song. There is a difference between not being a songwriter and becoming a corporate puppet.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

3 February 2015
11.15pm
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Don’t vilify me for daring to state the obvious. I don’t care whether Kanye writes his own songs or not. I heard the collaboration and it’s not a work of genius. Paul’s keyboard part was okay, but it’s not worth buying in my opinion. We live in free countries, so feel free to throw your money at whoever you want.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

3 February 2015
11.17pm
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My definition is a general rule. I never said it should be applied in all cases. Kanye is no Elvis.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

3 February 2015
11.22pm
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Yes, 50 years ago bands didn’t write their own songs. It’s not 50 years ago anymore. The Beatles broke out of the pop formulas and changed the scene. They started writing their own songs and experimenting. They changed the expectations. These artists that Paul is collaborating with are not real artists. They may appeal to a wide audience but the music is designed to appeal to a wide audience. You don’t listen to that kind of music and discuss its artistic nature. It’s generic top 40.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

3 February 2015
11.29pm
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Expert Textpert said
Don’t vilify me for daring to state the obvious. I don’t care whether Kanye writes his own songs or not. I heard the collaboration and it’s not a work of genius. Paul’s keyboard part was okay, but it’s not worth buying in my opinion. We live in free countries, so feel free to throw your money at whoever you want.

Nobody is vilifying you, we are simply replying to what you post. And its your opinion (which is fine) but its not obvious to some so they will disagree and reply on a public forum. Some like the song and Paul working with Kanye (and thereafter Rihanna), tho i doubt anyone thinks its a work of genius.  I’ve openly said i dont care for Paul’s work with Kanye West, i just dont see why he must not do it or be lambasted for doing so.

What do you want us to do, shake our heads and agree blindly?

Expert Textpert said
My definition is a general rule. I never said it should be applied in all cases. Kanye is no Elvis.

Why is that rule correct and why must folk apply it? What cases should it be applied to? Who decides?

No one is comparing Elvis to Kanye. You just cant make wide-reaching statements that dont stand up to quick scrutiny.

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3 February 2015
11.30pm
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Ron Nasty
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The trouble with your definition is, by suggesting those who aren’t songwriters don’t create real music, you drag in many of the greatest musical talents in the history of recorded music. I think the response is aimed at that one part of your definition (mine certainly was). Frank Sinatra and Billie Holiday are fine by me, though they don’t have many songwriter credits.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

3 February 2015
11.33pm
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Expert Textpert said
Yes, 50 years ago bands didn’t write their own songs. It’s not 50 years ago anymore. The Beatles broke out of the pop formulas and changed the scene. They started writing their own songs and experimenting. They changed the expectations. These artists that Paul is collaborating with are not real artists. They may appeal to a wide audience but the music is designed to appeal to a wide audience. You don’t listen to that kind of music and discuss its artistic nature. It’s generic top 40.

Artists were writing their own material back in the 50’s (Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly), it just wasn’t the norm. The Beatles changed the scene for a time but everything goes in cycles and now we have both.

Again why are these not real artists?

Songs written by Kanye West. Songs written or co-written by Rihanna.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

3 February 2015
11.35pm
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It is a common criticism of pop music in today’s world, especially among indie rock fans, that the artists often don’t write their own songs. What is implied is that the artists don’t have integrity. Elvis and Frank Sinatra had integrity.

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3 February 2015
11.43pm
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I don’t see why you guys feel the need to defend music you don’t even like. I doubt if this were a Yoko thread anyone would be defending the music. Maybe people don’t like to admit Paul can make mistakes.

"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney 

3 February 2015
11.47pm
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ahdn_paul_06 I’m a fan of modern pop and my problem is when people make sweeping generalizations about music. One persons trash can be another persons treasure. 

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3 February 2015
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Expert Textpert said
It is a common criticism of pop music in today’s world, especially among indie rock fans, that the artists often don’t write their own songs. What is implied is that the artists don’t have integrity. Elvis and Frank Sinatra had integrity.

While the criticism may be widespread (and has been for a long time) it doesn’t make it a correct assessment. Ignore whether they are songwriters or not, and concentrate on the type of career they choose to pursue. My alarm bells go off when musicians (and it is generally musicians, though there are a few actors etc. who fall into the same camp) are more interested in turning themselves into a brand than being an artist.

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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966

4 February 2015
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Here is the official video for ‘FourFiveSeconds’.

Edit: reading about the track brought up this quote which is of relevance to here.

The rugged denim look was ‘Ye’s idea. “Kanye came up with the idea of doing just some real street, denim, all-American-type look,” explained RiRi. “Denim never goes out of style; it’s classic, it’s iconic, just like the fucking Beatles.”

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

4 February 2015
10.46pm
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Examiner report that another artist Paul has been working with is Lady Gaga and that pictures of them together in the recording studio are on Lady Gaga’s Instagram page.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

4 February 2015
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Expert Textpert said
I don’t see why you guys feel the need to defend music you don’t even like. I doubt if this were a Yoko thread anyone would be defending the music. Maybe people don’t like to admit Paul can make mistakes.

I think he makes mistakes, I usually find them interesting because of that. I find I feel the same same with Neil Young, it is the time he spends off the beaten track that I often find the most interesting to listen to. Oh, I haven’t listened to this thing yet – I just found the conversation interesting.

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4 February 2015
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meanmistermustard said
Examiner report that another artist Paul has been working with is Lady Gaga and that pictures of them together in the recording studio are on Lady Gaga’s Instagram page.

I wonder if Paul is looking at ways to make himself more relevant to the younger generation or if some of his younger fans are just grabbing the opportunity to work with him while he is still around? I know Katy Perry is a huge fan.

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==

4 February 2015
11.52pm
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Heck, it’s only a guest appearance form Macca, he doesn’t even sing in it.  For all you know it’s someone else who played the guitar, and he’s just in the video air guitaring! a-hard-days-night-paul-11

 

What’s the big fuss????

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4 February 2015
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Ron Nasty said
The trouble with your definition is, by suggesting those who aren’t songwriters don’t create real music, you drag in many of the greatest musical talents in the history of recorded music. I think the response is aimed at that one part of your definition (mine certainly was). Frank Sinatra and Billie Holiday are fine by me, though they don’t have many songwriter credits.

Don’t forget Elvis Presley never wrote songs either! 

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk38/rickdelsie/The%20Beatles/parlunread_zps28270d9d.gif BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

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