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Let It Be
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fabfouremily
Sitting in an English garden
2929 Posts
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30 July 2012 - 6.40pm

I don't think Paul liked ''All Things Must Pass'' when George played it for them during those sessions, which is why it wasn't included. That's also why people say that it is rather ironic that Paul played it at the Concert for George.

I think, I might be wrong.

Moving along in our God given ways, safety is sat by the fire/Sanctuary from these feverish smiles, left with a mark on the door.

(Passover - I. Curtis)

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vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
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30 July 2012 - 8.51pm

I never thought about it before, but it's possible George was intentionally holding back his really good songs from Let It Be and saving them for his solo album since it was just a matter of time before the Beatles thing was finally done.

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

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meanmistermustard

19113 Posts
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31 July 2012 - 1.53am

Surely if he was holding back the good songs Here Comes The Sun and Something wouldnt have been put forward, two of the best songs he ever wrote. He did try and put forward All Things Must Pass but John and Paul showed as much enthusiasm to it as the school rebel does to homework.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
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144
31 July 2012 - 2.04am

The Let It Be songs are all Phil Spector.

By early 1970 not a single Beatle was involved.

If you wonder why that particular version of "Let It Be" was chosen or this offering of "Across The Universe" or this Harrison song or that Harrison tune, you have to ask Phil Spector (not hard: he's in prison with plenty of time on his hands).

In fact, it was Spector's arrangement of "The Long And Winding Road" that broke the proverbial camel's back. McCartney didn't even know about it.

I don't think there was a drop off in Harrison's production:

1966: "Taxman"
1968: "While my Guitar .."

1969: "Something" "Here Comes The Sun" (I Me Mine and For You Blue are better than say, "I Need You")

early 70's: "My Sweet Lord" and the All Things Must Pass album.

If you're writing one classic song every year or so, you're doing pretty well!

The dropoff IMO came after "All Things MP"

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
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145
31 July 2012 - 2.06am

Actually, Ringo played drums on Across The Universe at the April 1st, 1970 session.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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meanmistermustard

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31 July 2012 - 2.35am

And whilst Spector added bits of chat, and edited, overdubbed and mixed songs in his own unique style he only really went near what Glyn Jones had been working on previously. You can trace the Let It Be album right thru the acetates that Jones made.  

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
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31 July 2012 - 2.49am

Spector made significant changes to four songs: ATU, LAWR, LIB and IMM. I Me Mine is generally considered to be improved, Let It Be has plenty of defenders of Spector's version, leaving two songs butchered by Spector - not exactly ruining an album.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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meanmistermustard

19113 Posts
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31 July 2012 - 8.25am

If anything John was right when he said that Spector was given the shittiest tapes and made them decent (tho i paraphrase).

Im not a fan of the Spector ACU in the slightest but it isnt much worse than the Martin mix and TLAWR is overdone but many folks love it that way. I can see it being done like that nowadays as we live in times of over-indulgence and manipulation in all things, think of what comes out from the X-Factor or any of those talent shows which do sell. I think its in the book 'You Never Give Me Your Money' where it says that Paul had the opportunity to raise his objections to the orchestration on The Long And Winding Road but waited too long. Two of Us sounds weird without the opening dialogue, i do prefer it. Plus the closing "hope we passed the audition" bit at the end of Get Back really works as an album closer (the worst offender being the the dead ending non-coda on Naked which was never meant to be like that (Let It Be Naked is a very flawed release)).   

People do go on about how they should release one of the earliest Get Back lineups but the different recordings selected arent very good with quite sloppy, half hearted perfromances, and at times someone sounds bored, whilst Dig It goes on for what seems like days (its ok at 50 odd seconds if not played often). Thats not to say that there is nothing usable left from those sessions, there is, but what Spector did did make Let It Be a better album overall than what could have been put out.     

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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GeorgeTSimpson
Vienna, Austria
343 Posts
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149
31 July 2012 - 12.35pm

I think phil's album was better than glyn's but much worse than naked. I think he ruined some songs with it's orchestra (I Me Mine, Across The Universe, The Long And Winding Road), one song (let it be) with the editing out of the harmony vocals and the mixing of the orchestra and the others with the dialogues they don't fit if you want to listen to the songs, if you want to hear dialogues from the get back sessions, listen to the naked fly on the wall

Once there was a way to get back homewards. Once there was a way to get back home; sleep pretty darling do not cry. And I will sing a lullaby

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
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150
31 July 2012 - 3.42pm

Naked is a flawed album by design - Paul essentially took a massive ego trip, creating Naked. It's a piss-poor attempt to create what never could exist in 1970 - an alternate Let It Be. But the reason I dislike Naked (in addition to it being worse) is that they do so many minor edits everywhere, even to the point of correcting John's off pitch note in Dig A Pony. Naked is McCartney saying "look what it could have been" when it never could have. And that, my friends, is the true problem - McCartney, in his twisted way, reduced Let It Be to a joke with Naked, a weird, alternate universe album which is useless. Major changes were made to four songs. McCartney's version was already available on Past Masters. McCartney got the stringless version of The Long And Winding Road released on Anthology 3. Same with I Me Mine, whereas the best version of ATU is Anthology 2's version from right before Rishikesh. There were already versions out there, approved by all three Beatles (and Yoko)that undermine the need for Naked - is Two Of Us really improved that much by not having it's intro? To me, it's diminished. The Danny Boy ending makes One After 909 a better song, and makes it authentic. You can't ignore that this album has no purpose but to say f*** you to Phil Spector. Who was right.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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GeorgeTSimpson
Vienna, Austria
343 Posts
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151
31 July 2012 - 4.02pm

I think to of us improved without the intro and one ofter 909 also did without the denny boy line, so did Dig A Pony and get back (although the single version is better) I agree that the Past Masters version of let it be is better than the naked version, so are the anthology versions of Across The Universe, I Me Mine, The Long And Winding Road and One After 909 but the naked versions are better than spector's version and the other songs in which spector included dialogues (+I've Got A Feeling with the first verse from the second rooftop version) are all in their best versions on naked. You don't need let it be if you've got naked, only if you're a collector (which is why I've got it)

Once there was a way to get back homewards. Once there was a way to get back home; sleep pretty darling do not cry. And I will sing a lullaby

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meanmistermustard

19113 Posts
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31 July 2012 - 7.37pm

Completely agree with Sun King. I rarely go near Naked as there is so little there apart from the remix of Across The Universe. I hate how they edited Dont Let Me Me Down to create a complete live performance from both takes simply because John messed up the vocals (was it such a big deal?). I Me Mine is still edited because we have it au natural on Anthology 3 however they didnt just give us it without Spectors orchestra but created yet another darn edit. Dig A Pony mixes out the 'all i want is you' part and i dont know why. Get Back omits the coda, if youre going to give us the song as it was let us have it break down, dont just chop it out. The promo version of TLANWR is far inferior to the basic track on Anthology 3 which they decided they couldnt include.

The least said of Fly On The Wall the better - either give me full songs or not at all, dont give me 30 second excerpts of songs that youre never going to release. Have had the cd for nearly 9 years and played that once.

Quite simply it was a hodge podge project that tried to improve on Let It Be but failed. And they didnt give us the damn dvd!!!

 

Give me Spectors any day, just substitute Across The Universe for the gorgeous Glyn Jones mix and the basic Long and Winding Road. Id be happy forever and have no complaints in the slightest  

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
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153
31 July 2012 - 9.06pm

meanmistermustard said

The least said of Fly On The Wall the better - either give me full songs or not at all, dont give me 30 second excerpts of songs that youre never going to release. Have had the cd for nearly 9 years and played that once.

  

Wow, I've owned it the same length of time and have played it at least TWICE! (Maybe even 3 times; can't recall.)

Seeing how it was never part of the remasters, I wonder if "...Naked" is essentially out of print now? (Suits me fine if so...although I own both "Naked" and the original, of course. And have no intention of getting rid of "Naked". Someone pointed out here that "...Naked" restores George's acoustic guitar part to "For You Blue"'s mix, so that's another minor advantage it has over the original, one of the few.)

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
(Offline)
154
31 July 2012 - 10.58pm

McCartney's a hypocrite. Here's how:
How can someone criticise a producer (Phil Spector) for making changes to an album that was to be a no frills, as it was performed album… and, when remixing the album with the goal of creating the no frills album he couldn't get in 1970, instruct the engineers to make edits to, at least, 7 of 11 songs from the original tapes. 7 songs edited. How can you pass that off as a Naked version of an album? 63% of songs featuring an edit. 63%. And that's supposed to be the album that is a Naked version of Let It Be? No. I can take an argument that Let It Be is better with all the alterations. But to call it Naked, with the inherent implications that it is the original, as intended, no frills album McCartney had stolen from him in 1970 by the ruthless Phil Spector is bullshit. McCartney may believe he made a better album, but he in no way made a truly "Naked" version of Let It Be. And that's what drives me crazy. He shouldn't have called it Naked, and it should not be treated as a stripped down version of Let It Be. It's full of the same technical trickery that Paul hated in 1970 but embraced by 2003. Which is hypocritical. And trying to act like it's different, or that situations were different, are a fools game.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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meanmistermustard

19113 Posts
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1 August 2012 - 12.44am

vonbontee said

Seeing how it was never part of the remasters, I wonder if "...Naked" is essentially out of print now? (Suits me fine if so...although I own both "Naked" and the original, of course. And have no intention of getting rid of "Naked". Someone pointed out here that "...Naked" restores George's acoustic guitar part to "For You Blue"'s mix, so that's another minor advantage it has over the original, one of the few.)

With the Naked mix of Ive Got A Feeling appearing on itunes as part of the Tomorrow Never Knows compilation theres a good chance that the whole album will appear at some point. There is already the Yellow Submarine Songtrack alongside Yellow Submarine so the arguement used of people getting confused is gone, plus its freely available to buy online and in retail stores.

Apart from Naked and Live At The BBC is there anything else freely available to buy as part of the collection on cd that is not on itunes? Maybe the idea at the moment from Apple is wait for everything to be on itunes before new stuff is issued. Might be clutching at straws with that one.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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Into the Sky with Diamonds
New York
1610 Posts
(Offline)
156
1 August 2012 - 2.45am

Mr Sun King CT said, "But to call it Naked, with the inherent implications that it is the original, as intended, no frills album McCartney had stolen from him in 1970 by the ruthless Phil Spector is bullshit. "

Hadn't thought of that. I didn't realize how many edits were in Naked

Assuming we had access to every take of each song, however, which versions are we saying would have been the TRUE Naked version? Just looking at the posts here, looks like there's a wide variety of opinions (for a change!)

Some songs on Naked do sound naked - I'm thinking of the long whatever road. Macca might have thought of the word "naked" with respect to that song and then simply applied it to his whole project. It does have sort of a racy sound to it.

I agree that he's telling you what the album sounded like - or what it should have sounded like - to his ears. Considering his impact on the production of the prior Beatle albums, I'm guessing that's pretty much what we would indeed have gotten had he cared to get his mitts on the Glyn Johns tapes.

Spector got them only because none of the Beatles (including Paul) had any interest. I don't hold it against Spector for producing the songs the way it sounded best to his ears.

Hey, he gave us something to argue about!

"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)

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IMDeWalrus
Terrace BC Canada
97 Posts
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157
1 August 2012 - 4.16pm

I've always thought the original LET IT BE was a pretty good album, and while LIB NAKED has its charms, overall I'm sticking with the original.

For one thing, I like the running order better.  "Two Of Us" makes a really good album opener. 

And I like the little bits of chatter and adlibbing that Spector inserted into the mix, which gave the album the soundtrack feel that was originally intended.  I especially like the way he mixed some rooftop and studio warm-up (including John's "Sweet Loretta Fart" adlib) onto the beginning of "Get Back" to make it sound like it was a live performance from the rooftop performance.   

On NAKED, all the chatter was moved to a separate "Fly on the Wall" disc, and as I've mentioned in another thread, I doubt many people will listen to that more than a handful of times -- kinda like the "Apple Jam" on George's All Things Must Pass.

Both LET IT BE albums include edited versions of "I Me Mine" in order to lengthen it, but I think Spector's edit was better -- and the orchestration he adds to it definitely enhances the song.   I prefer Spector's mix of "Across The Universe", although he slowed it down too much -- the tempo on NAKED is perfect.  

I've got nothing to say, but it's okay..

GOOD MORNING!

GOOD MORNING!!

GOOD MORNING!!!

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GeorgeTSimpson
Vienna, Austria
343 Posts
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158
1 August 2012 - 6.53pm

Wow, looks like I'm the only person who thinks Naked is far superior to let it be. Except paul himself of course. I have no big problem with the strings in the spector mix, in I Me Mine it's okay, in Across The Universe it doesn't work with the tamboura but is okay apart from that. In The Long And Winding Road it's a bit too much and worse than anthology and naked but okay. I just don't like those stupid dialogues before the songs and I think in that way naked is far superior. Anyway can anyone tell me other songs (not on let it be) which feature dialogue in the beginning, maybe that would help for me when listening to the spector mixes

Once there was a way to get back homewards. Once there was a way to get back home; sleep pretty darling do not cry. And I will sing a lullaby

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vonbontee
Inside an Apple Orchard in a Letterbox
2815 Posts
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159
1 August 2012 - 7.24pm

I'd say the White Album is really the only other Beatles album with a scrap of dialogue and other "loose ends" here and there

I remember George saying 'Blimey, he's always talking about “Yesterday”, you'd think he was Beethoven or somebody' - Paul McCartney

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IMDeWalrus
Terrace BC Canada
97 Posts
(Offline)
160
1 August 2012 - 9.51pm

vonbontee said
I'd say the White Album is really the only other Beatles album with a scrap of dialogue and other "loose ends" here and there

Well... there's also the throat clearing and electronic noises at the beginning of "Taxman" on REVOLVER.   a-hard-days-night-george-10

I've got nothing to say, but it's okay..

GOOD MORNING!

GOOD MORNING!!

GOOD MORNING!!!

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