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What did John ever do for George?
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Wigwam
1261 Posts
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8 March 2014 - 3.29am

John gave George the catchy 'Happy Just to Dance with You"…………. I'd like to think he contributed something memorable  to George's later work but I'm not aware of anything.

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Mincer Ray
Gainesville, Florida
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8 March 2014 - 5.21am

Well, John also (mostly) wrote Do You Want To Know A Secret.  He helped GH with the lyrics on Taxman and Piggies.  

"I believe that, as long as there is plenty, poverty is evil."  - Bobby Kennedy

Wigwam
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8 March 2014 - 11.08am

I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

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IveJustSeenAFaceo
Arrived Somewhere (But Not Here)
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8 March 2014 - 1.55pm

Atlas said
I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

I wouldn't qualify putting lyrics into Piggies as "helping." Helping with that song would've been saying "this is total crap throw it in the bin. Let's use this Not Guilty song instead.

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Starr Shine?
Waiting in the Sky
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8 March 2014 - 2.57pm

IveJustSeenAFaceo said

Atlas said
I'd forgotten that………But I can understand  why John gave 'Do You Want To Know A Secret' away.

He made up for that with 'Happy Just to Dance With You' which is a great little song. Good to know about Piggies and Taxman, thanks. But is that it?

I wouldn't qualify putting lyrics into Piggies as "helping." Helping with that song would've been saying "this is total crap throw it in the bin. Let's use this Not Guilty song instead.

Hey Piggies is an ok song not like an oscar song but it isn't the worst ever and John let George in his band I would count that as something

 

she was the sun, burning bright and brittle and,https://youtu.be/52nwiTs7bk8

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Wigwam
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8 March 2014 - 11.44pm

I suppose George was the lead guitarist and memorably contributed to most of John' and Paul's work in this way. Paul wrote some amazing bass and piano parts for a few of George's songs……even lead guitar. Ringo did his bit. John as rhythm guitar had less opportunity to help or have the help he did give noticed.

 

 

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edwardr2000
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9 March 2014 - 9.46am

I think  George is quoted as saying John did not even participate in some of his later recordings.  John was miffed that he was not mentioned in George's book I Me Mine. But  George retorted by saying that he contributed more to John's songs that John did to his work. There is an interview clip on you tube I will try and find with Selina Scott that confirms this. 

http://youtu.be/4LyRSbf9J1Q

Wigwam
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9 March 2014 - 11.22am

An insightful interview. I think I'd better keep my impressions of it to myself.

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Billy Rhythm
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10 March 2014 - 1.49pm

Focusing on there being some sort of wedge between John & George is just another case of the press playing up something not all that spectacular into something that it's not to sell a story, the same "wedge" came between John, Paul & Ringo as well, and it's called maturing as a human being.  Sure, George was a "junior member" when he first joined as a teenager and readily accepted while flourishing in that role.  He then emerged into his own, within a fantastic lifestyle that no one could have dreamed of when he first joined the group.  John showed George some support with coming into his own, it certainly wasn't a project of his to take George "under his wing", but he did whatever he could whenever he could to encourage him.  During the years of George's emergence as a composer in his own right, John was disinterested in The Beatles generally and I don't see any reason to single out his "disinterest" in George's work, unless of course it's to sell a book or TV Special.

 

The press love to dig up dirt wherever, even if there's only water present.  Take George's fabulous 'Within You, Without You' from 'Sgt. Pepper', some of the press actually believed at the time that the laughing upon the song's end was John & Paul laughing at George's work!?!  George was even asked about it and had to clarify that the piece "sounded so solemn" that he felt he needed to "break the mood" at the end.  Here's John's words from two separate interviews, one from just after 'Sgt. Pepper's release and another from shortly before his death:

 

JOHN 1967: "George has done a great indian one. We came along one night and he had about 400 indian fellas playing, and it was a great swinging event, as they say."

JOHN 1980: "One of George's best songs. One of my favorites of his, too. He's clear on that song. His mind and his music are clear. There is his innate talent. He brought that sound together."

 

Philip Norman is an Outsider who attempts to come across as an Insider, and there are countless examples of The Beatles' own words/thoughts that directly contradict Philip's fantastic claims, such as those during the video posted above.  I feel that there's too much of a big deal being made of John not playing on some of George's songs later on as well, again, John wasn't all that interested in The Beatles anymore and by the time of the White Album wasn't making any bones about it to the others.  There's plenty of Paul McCartney songs that John didn't play on either post 'Sgt. Pepper', probably even more so than George's songs.  Shining a spotlight on any strains to John & George's working/personal relationship needs to be put in its proper perspective, and that's that John Lennon really was interested in collaborating with one person, and one person only from 1968 onward, and it wasn't Paul McCartney, George Harrison or Ringo Starr...:-)   

 

 

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Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
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10 March 2014 - 2.08pm

Didn't John have something to do with the writing of "Something" as well? I seem to recall John making a suggestion of something or another on that bootleg tape with George laughing at his temporary "...attracts me like a pomegranate" lyric.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

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meanmistermustard

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10 March 2014 - 2.33pm

Didn't George as for help over some lyrics and John tell him to shove in anything until the right word(s) came to mind?

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

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Von Bontee
A Hole In The Road
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10 March 2014 - 2.59pm

That's probably what I was thinking of, thanks.

One day, a tape-op got a tape on backwards, he went to play it, and it was all "Neeeradno-undowarrroom" and it was "Wow! Sounds Indian!"
-- Paul McCartney

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Billy Rhythm
573 Posts
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10 March 2014 - 3.03pm

meanmistermustard said
Didn't George as for help over some lyrics and John tell him to shove in anything until the right word(s) came to mind?

 

This is actually some great advice, John did this all the time and came up with excellent lyrics...:-)

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DrBeatle
Hershey via Boston
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10 March 2014 - 3.30pm

..and it was "cauliflower," if I'm not mistaken, not "pomegranate."

 

John didn't play on George's latter-era Beatles tunes, especially during '69-'70. And while he did help out with the lyrics for Taxman, he did so under duress...I believe the actual quote was ""I remember the day he [Harrison] called to ask for help on 'Taxman', one of his first songs. I threw in a few one-liners to help the song along, because that's what he asked for. He came to me because he couldn't go to Paul, because Paul wouldn't have helped him at that period. I didn't want to do it... I just sort of bit my tongue and said OK. It had been John and Paul for so long, he'd been left out because he hadn't been a songwriter up until then."

 

Not exactly a guy excited to help his mate out, is it?

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meanmistermustard

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10 March 2014 - 3.39pm

John certainly played on Something, you can hear his piano part at times in the mix - its very clear on the isolated rock band tracks and the reduced Take 37 which was used as the basic take for the final version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....c2CdITazBs

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

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Expert Textpert
In bed.
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10 March 2014 - 3.47pm

Von Bontee said
Didn't John have something to do with the writing of "Something" as well? I seem to recall John making a suggestion of something or another on that bootleg tape with George laughing at his temporary "...attracts me like a pomegranate" lyric.

Haha, yes...there is a brilliantly funny part where George is trying to make up the lyrics to the song and he sings about how someone "missed the show," and John thinks he is singing "Mr. Show," so they make up the line, "What did you do now, Mr. Show?  I don't know.  I don't know."

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

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Ron Nasty
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10 March 2014 - 3.49pm

@DrBeatle I actually see that quote a bit different. I look at the bit where John says, "It had been John and Paul for so long...", as John admitting it almost felt like cheating on Paul, and that it had been him and Paul for so long that he was unsure how to do it with someone else beyond just doing what was asked - whereas with Paul he was comfortable being more assertive because they understood how it worked between them.

The interesting thing when you think about it, excluding wives, Paul has a long list of post-Beatles songwriting collaborators, John - off the top of my head - had one co-credit on a Bowie song.

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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Expert Textpert
In bed.
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10 March 2014 - 3.55pm

DrBeatle said
..and it was "cauliflower," if I'm not mistaken, not "pomegranate."

 

John didn't play on George's latter-era Beatles tunes, especially during '69-'70. And while he did help out with the lyrics for Taxman, he did so under duress...I believe the actual quote was ""I remember the day he [Harrison] called to ask for help on 'Taxman', one of his first songs. I threw in a few one-liners to help the song along, because that's what he asked for. He came to me because he couldn't go to Paul, because Paul wouldn't have helped him at that period. I didn't want to do it... I just sort of bit my tongue and said OK. It had been John and Paul for so long, he'd been left out because he hadn't been a songwriter up until then."

 

Not exactly a guy excited to help his mate out, is it?

No, it's definitely "pomegranate."  And I remember that quote, too.  John was only interested in writing with Paul, although after the breakup they both saw Paul as a common adversary for a time.

Whenever I see the title of this thread, I imagine John giving George some lyrics, and then saying "Now don't say I never did anything for you."  Or I hear George complaining, "What have you ever done for me?"

"This Beatles talk bores me to death." --John Lennon

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DrBeatle
Hershey via Boston
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10 March 2014 - 4.58pm

If you listen to this bit from a bootleg, they use cauliflower, pomegranate, maple tree, and loads of other nonsense to fill in that line.

 

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Ron Nasty
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10 March 2014 - 9.22pm

IveJustSeenAFaceo said
@DrBeatle How'd you get that SoundCloud embedded? Could be useful for sharing music I've made.

Sorry, but isn't that a PM?

stay-on-topic

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