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Was John Haunted By His Inner Emptiness?
17 November 2015
2.31pm
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Zig
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lillo78 said 

So i think he was probably haunted by the fact that he couldn't share all his triumphs with his mother, the only support he has when wanted to learn to play guitar.
 

 

Good point, @Shamrock Womlbs . When you think about it, he could not share his triumphs with anyone in his family. I can give Mimi the benefit of the doubt and say her heart may have been in the right place, but here words and deeds were in a different place entirely.

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19 November 2015
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I remember reading pete townshend saying that johns personality and humour masked an 'inner silence'. I suspect their might be some truth in that. Johns demons were a big part of his muse. You can hear it beginning to cut through quite early in his writing once the bands success had been established.

Like a lot of folk with problems john was always looking to fill the emptiness,and rocknroll,the beatles,mccartney,epstein,yoko all fulfilled him in his journey. He was quite obsessive about stuff before losing interest and moving onto the next thing. I think the 'primal scream' therapy helped him a lot and that he should have persisted,but janov didn't handle the situation too well at all. Unfortunately john didn't see it through and it meant a lot of his old resentments and pain were brought back to the surface without being resolved.

That said it's presuming a lot to say his talent was gone now he had a more happy life,some of the songs on 'double fantasy' are beautifully written and occasionally hard hitting 'I'm losing you' for instance. I think that edge that was always so much a part of his person would always have been present in his work.

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Beatlebug
20 November 2015
7.50pm
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Do you think going through hardships (or having inner demons) is the only way to be a talented individual? 

Only music can save us.

20 November 2015
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KaleidoscopeMusic said
Do you think going through hardships (or having inner demons) is the only way to be a talented individual? 

No. People can be talented without hardships.

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20 November 2015
11.51pm
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"Do you think going through hardships (or having inner demons) is the only way to be a talented individual?"

 

Yes......and No!......And some 'maybe' thrown in there.

Of course talented people are talented people whatever their circumstances.....They are in a perpetual state of talent. It is written verily that Paul could fall into a piano and climb out with a new song....

....But I think some can do their best work when they've got their backs against the wall........Or when they are madly in love......Or deeply jealous.

You can feel John's pain ......Paul's you can enjoy.

I think we can overdo the haunted John thing.

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20 January 2016
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It's important to note that art isn't always about reality.  Much of what Lennon talked about in his songs were fantasies of what an ideal life and what a perfect world to him would be like.  He has as much of a core identity as anyone else.

20 January 2016
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Ahhh Girl
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I can't stop wondering what John's life would have been like if he had taken an effective antidepressant. I think I've mentioned the idea before, but I just can't stop wondering. I really need to get past this.

20 January 2016
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What would define an effective antidepressant?

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21 January 2016
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One that worked for him. Different antidepressants work differently on different people. Sometimes a person has to try out several ones until the right med at the right dosage is found.

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6 February 2016
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Wigwam said
"Do you think going through hardships (or having inner demons) is the only way to be a talented individual?"

 

Yes......and No!......And some 'maybe' thrown in there.

Of course talented people are talented people whatever their circumstances.....They are in a perpetual state of talent. It is written verily that Paul could fall into a piano and climb out with a new song....

....But I think some can do their best work when they've got their backs against the wall........Or when they are madly in love......Or deeply jealous.

You can feel John's pain ......Paul's you can enjoy.

I think we can overdo the haunted John thing.

Show me a hero, and I'll write you a tragedy - Scott Fitzgerald 

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For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun

20 November 2016
10.32pm
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Ahhh Girl said

Billy Rhythm said

John was a Dreamer, he dreamt away to escape from the reality of his life ("Living is easy with eyes closed, Misunderstanding all you see").  The ability to physically manifest his dreams through his art and music was his therapy, the Primal Scream Therapy was just a temporary extreme measure that helped get him back on track after being somewhat forced to "face his demons" after being finally freed from the chains of being someone that he wasn't for a very long time, and being just John as opposed to being Beatle John for the first time since his youth in 1970 ("I was the Walrus but now I'm John") was quite a traumatic experience for him, as any abrupt change if even for the better can be (such as quitting smoking).  Psychotherapy likely wouldn't have worked out at all for John Lennon , any Psychotherapist could learn far more from John then he could ever from them because Lennon learned his valued life lessons from unimaginable experiences that they could never learn through any Psychology Educational Institution.

 

His "Inner Emptiness" drove him, he channeled it through positive means for both himself and countless others, I'm not sure that "Haunted" is the right word here.  If some of John's best work appears to be dark or reflections of his "Inner Emptiness", it's perhaps that because when things were going well for him he was too busy enjoying himself and couldn't be bothered to stop and write it all down.  I'd reckon that he was quite fulfilled inside on many fronts and made conscious efforts to counter his shortfalls or mistakes made along the way.  When Sean was born, he knew deep down that he had to do a better job at Fatherhood, and knew full well exactly the negative impact of playing the game as a Beatle had had on his strained relationship with Julian, he vowed to do it differently right from the outset and turning a negative experience into a positive is absolutely a sure sign of someone who's come to terms with himself.  He appeared to learn from mistakes made during his first marriage as well and chose to do things differently with Yoko.  Many believe that his Peace Campaigns were inspired from his pension for violence at an earlier age, this appears to me to be a man who not only didn't require professional help, but could help show many others a thing or two about "confronting your demons" as effectively as he did...:-)     

I thought of clipping out some of BR's post in my quoting of it, but, dang, it works so well as a whole.

Perhaps no one could have be a psychotherapist to John, but imagine if you could have given John some help when he "opened up the doors" and asked someone to please, please help him to get his feet back on the ground. How would you have helped him? What would you have said to him? Suggested to him to do?

This thread fascinates me.  

From my point of view (thanks for sending me a link to this page by the way), if I were, for example, a psychologist, I don't think I could have helped him because psychology is still a science and when someone loses their parents at a young age or lacks a person to look up to, which is so important especially during childhood but also later on, there is hardly any real cure for that.

My mum always says that we can't take someone else's pain into ourselves but what we can do is assist them and be there for them because even just the presence of an understanding soul counts in those moments. 

I think I would have probably tried to help him with a "human" and witty approach and make him concentrate on the happy memories he had of his family because that's how I'm coping with my granny's loss. Myself being a Catholic I would have reassured him that, as George (?) said, "somewhere down the line or through a cosmic telephone", his mum is listening to his music and keeps being part of his life, just in another form, and that she doesn't want him to be sad and lonely because of her but to be happy instead and cherish her memory. The point stands even if he had a difficult relationship with religion since his mum would have certainly loved to see him smile, were she there.

I think John always blamed himself for Julia 's death.. He was heavily distraught during that period. He reportedly even organized a seance with some friends some time after the car accident in order to be able to talk to her. Curing that type of sense of guilt would be a challenge because you would, so to speak, have to "enter his mind" and even then, if he were stubborn in his belief or made you think he was feeling fine, it would become harder to convince him he couldn't have possibly been responsible for it or, in the latter case, you would never be sure he's telling you the whole truth. I know this from personal experience. It's very hard to eradicate it.

About Julian, well, that's my mum's thought but I agree with her, we think John didn't know how to handle fatherhood since his own father didn't actually make the best father figure for him before and so he had no one to look up to in that aspect. With Yoko and Sean it was different because Yoko had a different, strong grip approach to him, in contrast with Cynthia's softer one and therefore John took up a "full-time job" taking care of Sean, probably trying to cover his remorse about having left Julian to grow up mostly alone apart from some visits.

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21 November 2016
4.03pm
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I'm Catholic, too, but not Roman Catholic.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

21 November 2016
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Expert Textpert said
I'm Catholic, too, but not Roman Catholic.  

My family is Roman Catholic but I'm still embracing it in a way, I think. While my father can resort to his faith easily when bad things happen I can't seem to push away negative thoughts so easily. Let's just say I'm undergoing a period where music helps me more than faith. I still do admire dad for being so sure though.

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22 November 2016
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Expert Textpert said
I'm Catholic, too, but not Roman Catholic.  

Nice to meet you, Catholic. I'm Necko. 

I'm Necko.  I'm like Ringo except I wear necklaces.

I'm also ewe2 on weekends.

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23 November 2016
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@Necko said

Nice to meet you, Catholic. I'm Necko.   

...and don't forget, you're also ewe2 on weekends a-hard-days-night-paul-5
 

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23 November 2016
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But it wasn't the weekend.

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23 November 2016
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BeatleSoul said

Expert Textpert said
I'm Catholic, too, but not Roman Catholic.  

My family is Roman Catholic but I'm still embracing it in a way, I think. While my father can resort to his faith easily when bad things happen I can't seem to push away negative thoughts so easily. Let's just say I'm undergoing a period where music helps me more than faith. I still do admire dad for being so sure though.  

At the risk of straying too much off topic, let me suggest that you take an experiential approach to your faith, instead of an intellectual or dogmatic one. I am much more receptive to the energies at mass if I am able to turn off my mind and be open to them. 

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

23 November 2016
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Expert Textpert said
I'm Catholic, too, but not Roman Catholic.  

I went to a full Roman Catholic funeral with all the swinging incense thingies, clothing, customs and parts in Latin that I had to leave due to being about to burst out in hysterics (i was outside for about 10 minutes laughing so hard). Not acceptable behaviour I admit but it was so pompous and ridiculous I couldn't help it. I think they had 4 Fathers up front doing it all and when two came out swinging the incense around that was me set off!!

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)

23 November 2016
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meanmistermustard said

I went to a full Roman Catholic funeral with all the swinging incense thingies, clothing, customs and parts in Latin that I had to leave due to being about to burst out in hysterics (i was outside for about 10 minutes laughing so hard). Not acceptable behaviour I admit but it was so pompous and ridiculous I couldn't help it. I think they had 4 Fathers up front doing it all and when two came out swinging the incense around that was me set off!!  

It certainly can seem silly if you are not used to it. But there is definitely a reason behind every detail.

"This Beatles talk bores me to death.” —John Lennon 

23 November 2016
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Everything is silly from a certain point of view.

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