Please consider registering

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —

— Match —

— Forum Options —

Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Was John bipolar???
No permission to create posts
13 November 2011
seaglass eyes sunny smile
The Kingdom of Marigold
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 570
Member Since:
20 September 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

a-hard-days-night-ringo-8Finally someone agrees with me! That's reassuring, it's proof that I'm not just randomly spouting nonsense here.a-hard-days-night-george-8

I also noticed the behavior you mentioned, as sort of "red flags", although I wouldn't go as far as saying I have no doubt, as really I'm not an expert at all.

Also, I was sort of Beatlesing around on the internet a few days ago and noticed this (it's part of a letter from John to Cynthia, in 1965.)

it's only sort of three o'clock in the afternoon and it seems the wrong time of day to feel so emotional--I really feel like crying--it's stupid--and I'm choking up now as I'm writing--I don't know what's the matter with me--it's not the tour that's so different from other tours--I mean I'm having lots of laughs...but in between the laughs there's such a drop--I mean there seems to be no in between feelings.

This really stood out to me, and I remembered it now because you were talking about the tours getting increasingly harder for John.

"Now and then, though, someone does begin to grow differently. Instead of down, his feet grow up toward the sky. But we do our best to discourage awkward things like that."

"What happens to them?" insisted Milo.

"Oddly enough, they often grow ten times the size of everyone else," said Alec thoughtfully, "and I’ve heard that they walk among the stars."

The Phantom Tollbooth

15 November 2011
beatle ed
The Indra
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
24 October 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

John Lennon was a thoughtful human being who had his moments of sadness/ depression like many of us.

"All You Need is LOVE"

9 February 2012
Elmore James
The Jacaranda
Forum Posts: 34
Member Since:
8 February 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Ever seen 12 Easy Pieces? Jack Nicholson's character reminds me of John. Extraordinarily talented and tortured. Deep down inside, he knew he was an asshole, despite his obvious incredible qualities. 

16 May 2012
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 2
Member Since:
14 May 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Just a thought on this topic:


I think John may have fit into a less understood part of the "bipolar spectrum" and had what is called a hyperthymic temperament. Bipolar disorder is characterized by extreme "ups" (episodes of hypomania) and extreme "downs" (more "downs" than "ups"). A person with hyperthymic temperament is the opposite: they live in an almost constant state of "up" and only occasionally experience the "downs." People with this temperament (classic examples are Franklin and Theodore Roosevelt and Bill Clinton, many of the great explorers, Steve Jobs) tend to be great innovators, very driven, creative, good at reading people, able to see "truths" or qualities of the human condition that most other people can't see; they're often labeled visionaries. They're ballsy and can be incredibly confident; they have a decreased need for sleep; their ambitions seem impossible to most people but are completely realistic to them. They can come across as very childlike in some ways. They can be sensitive, convinced that people unlike them "don't get them" or are "out to get them." They also have notorious problems with impulse control (typically in the three big areas: chemical substances, sex and/or food. Clinton had problems with two of those, for example. John seems to have had problems with all three at various points, as well as spending.) 


While they are naturally prone to being so "up," their "downs" are characteristic of a bipolar or manic depressive type of crash. They can be severe and, depending on the circumstances, prolonged. However, hyperthymic people, unlike bipolar people, generally do not ever become suicidal, no matter how severe the "down" is. They always have some trauma or difficulty in their background; they're survivors but they manage to make something very positive out of a devastating personal experience. 


John experienced more "downs" than the standard hyperthymic person, but he also had two (or three, depending on your perspective) outside influences that could have precipitated that: drugs and fame. (I think some people might characterize aspects of his relationship with Yoko as precipitating some of his problems, as well, but that's not as clear as the obvious destructive quality of drugs, alcohol and fame.)   


The trauma with his parents certainly describes the survivor qualities that are requisite to the temperament (Clinton grew up with an abusive stepfather who almost shot him once; both Roosevelts were extremely sick when they were younger; Jobs never knew his father). Clearly, most of us wouldn't argue that John had "visionary" and creative qualities; he was always very ambitious. Even as a child, when all of his schoolteachers told his he was destined for a life of failure, he'd still yell things at Mimi about saving his artwork and poems because he'd be famous one day. He clearly had impulse control issues. And, despite failing everything in school, he was nevertheless an intelligent person. 


It's a shot in the dark, and I'm prone to guess it because I've been diagnosed as having the temperament, so I'm apt to see it while most people don't even know about it. I think if you took someone like Clinton or Jobs though, made them one of the most famous people in the world in their early 20s, gave them tons of illicit drugs, access to innumerable groupies and copious amounts of cash, and made their whole lifestyle and all of their success largely tied to three other people (which would frustrate a hyperthymic person beyond belief), you very easily end up with the kind of person John was by the end of the Beatles' run. Most people who are hyperthymic really, really like being that way because it's usually very positive. It's also not something for which one gets medicated. It's great, as long as the person manages the impulses and lives a healthy lifestyle within their means and societal bounds (which John did not). But, the "down" times are agonizing, as they would be for anyone who has bipolar disorder. I think circumstances may have given John an excessive number of "down" times, making him appear sick in ways he wasn't. 


Sorry it was so long! Not surprisingly, I have a lot of information about it. And, it was an idea that hadn't been suggested yet, that I think offers an interesting perspective on what may have compelled (for lack of a better word) him to to be the person he was.

16 May 2012
Ben Ramon
Carnegie Hall
Forum Posts: 612
Member Since:
26 March 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

A fascinating post and a really great insight into John's mind, WithGrace. Also interesting to hear about Clinton and Jobs, I never knew any of that stuff about either of them. I think with your evidence and research on the subject it seems very likely that John did have a hyperthymic temperament.

SHUT UP - Paulie's talkin'

12 June 2012
The Indra
Forum Posts: 39
Member Since:
27 April 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

John apparently showed signs in his early childhood of behavior that nowadays would have led to some sort of diagnosis and probably the very least ADD, for his short attention span, which he seems to have never outgrown. Manic-depressive (bi-polar) is a possibility; I say this only because I have some experience with this disorder in my family. The highs are very high, the lows very low, and not much time is spent in between. Also one of the symptoms can be to say whatever comes to mind, without a filter. John did this all his life, not just in his Beatles years.


Of course, his drug taking later in his twenties would probably skew any proper diagnosis anyway, as paranoia is common to both drug addiction, as well as mental illness.


He has also been said to have OCD and an eating disorder...this poor guy has been diagnosed like crazy post-mortem. In any event, he was an most unusual and special person, who seemed to suffer hard, play hard, etc...not one to have a neutral reaction to anything, everything was all in or all out.


Just my opinion.

13 July 2012
The Jacaranda
Forum Posts: 28
Member Since:
13 July 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

MeanMrsMustard said
I don't think so. We all have our ups and downs. John's were more well-publicized because he was famous.
I think he might have just been slightly more extreme than most. As basically everyone before me said, the drugs were probably a big factor.

Exactly. I think we all need to realize that there were things going on in his life that we probably will never know about, and will at least not understand. We only know the things that were publicized. 

22 April 2017
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
22 April 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

mithveaen said
I think it's an interesting question. He might have been bipolar.. but honestly I don't know much about this problem to say it.


I think John had a lot of unsolved issues when he was young, and his personality and all the pressure of being a Beatle didn't help at all. Having Paul, George and Ringo helped him but not for long.  

Actually, John Lennon's bipolarism was due to his element misbalance problem, he was born with weak element combination. Just look at his Chinese astrological chart then you would understand what I am saying. 

John Lennon's Chinese astrological chart:

Birth hour: 18.30 PM (yin wood rooster)

Birth date: 9 (yin wood rooster)

Birth month: October (yang fire dog)

Birth year: 1940 (yang metal dragon)

Zodiac sign: Dragon

Judging from John's Chinese astrological chart above you would notice that John was born with weak and imbalanced element combination, his element was simply not balanced enough to lead normal life. His yin wood element (his main element) was too weak, his yang metal element (his opposing element) was too strong. He was also lacking of fire element and water element on his astrological chart to make himself stay balanced. You could say that John Lennon was born with life threatening element combination. That's why I am not surprised why his behavior was particularly problematic, that's because he simply couldn't shoulder his element misbalance problem. His overwhelming metal element simply threatened his weak wood element, he seriously needed other people to sustain himself. He was born with extremely cold element.

The only people who could help John Lennon to sustain himself were by far Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono. Without Paul and Yoko, John Lennon would died quickly. Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono were the people who helped John Lennon to patched up his element misbalance problem and maintaining his health. If you don't understand what I am saying, just read my explanation below:

As what I said previously, John Lennon was a person born with weak yin wood element and strong yang metal element. His element combination was not balanced enough. So, that's why he needed to rely on other people to balanced uo his element. 

Paul McCartney on the hand, he has the element combination that could help John Lennon to sustain himself because if you look at Paul's Chinese astrological chart below, you would notice that his element combination was simply suitable for John Lennon.

Paul McCartney's Chinese astrological chart:

Birth hour: 14.00 PM (yin fire goat)

Birth date: 18 (yang water tiger)

Birth month: June (yang fire horse)

Birth year: 1942 (yang water horse) 

Zodiac sign: Horse

As you can see from Paul's chart above, you would notice that Paul was born with strong yang water element and strong yin fire element. His element is the complete opposite of John Lennon, his element is simply too hot like boiling water. That's why his element was suitable for John Lennon's health. Paul McCartney could make use of his strong yin fire element to melt down John Lennon's excessive metal element, so his yin wood element won't be threatened by his overwhelming yang metal element and John Lennon's element would stay warm. Then, Paul McCartney could also make use of his strong yang water element to nurture John Lennon's weak yin wood element. So, from the explanation writen previously, Paul McCartney could be described as John Lennon's lifesaver. 

Then, why John Lennon relied on Yoko Ono? 

That's because Yoko Ono has strong yin wood element. Yoko has strong yin wood element because she was born in the month of tiger (18 February). Then, she also has yang fire element and yin water element. John felt that Yoko Ono could help him to sustain himself and further growing his own element.
John Lennon used Yoko Ono's strong yin wood element to grow further his weak yin wood element. On the same time, John's strong yang metal element was useful for Yoko Ono to trim her excessive yin wood element.
Because of his relationship with Yoko Ono, his relationship with Paul McCartney finally deteriorated which lead to the split between them. John Lennon split with Paul McCartney because he felt that Paul's element wasn't sustainable for him anymore.

So, you could say that John Lennon was such a unfortunate person, he was born with unfortunate element combination. But he was still lucky because he had Paul McCartney and Yoko Ono as his personal anchors who could help him to stay alive. Without Paul and Yoko, John would died quickly.


The following people thank Tiff33 for this post:

SgtPeppersBulldog, Expert Textpert
24 April 2017
Forum Posts: 4756
Member Since:
31 March 2008
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Tiffany, hi, welcome to the forum.

You've posted three very similar messages on this forum, along a link to an article which I've removed. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, in case you're a genuine Beatles fan rather than a spammer, and I'm leaving your messages up in case someone else finds them of interest.

If you link one more time to that site, or post very similar messages in multiple threads, I'll have to suspend or remove your posting rights (I see you've left that link on other sites too, including Quora and Exemplore). Please don't do it. I'll post this reply on your other threads too.

You're welcome here as long as you write original content. If it looks like you're just here to plug other sites and articles please don't do it.

The following people thank Joe for this post:

Tiff33, Zig

Please don't spoil my day; I'm miles away

Can buy me love! Please consider using these links to support the Beatles Bible: Amazon | iTunes

24 April 2017
Expert Textpert
In bed.
Forum Posts: 3496
Member Since:
18 April 2013
sp_UserOnlineSmall Online

I don't know much about Chinese astrology, but I found that interesting.

"Remember, we are writing in the sky instead of on paper--that's our song. Lift your eyes and look up in the sky. There's our message. Lift your eyes again and look around you, and you will see that you are walking in the sky, which extends to the ground. We are all part of the sky, more so than of the ground. Remember, we love you." --John Lennon and Yoko Ono

24 April 2017
A Beginning
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
22 April 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Joe said
Tiffany, hi, welcome to the forum.

You've posted three very similar messages on this forum, along a link to an article which I've removed. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, in case you're a genuine Beatles fan rather than a spammer, and I'm leaving your messages up in case someone else finds them of interest.

If you link one more time to that site, or post very similar messages in multiple threads, I'll have to suspend or remove your posting rights (I see you've left that link on other sites too, including Quora and Exemplore). Please don't do it. I'll post this reply on your other threads too.

You're welcome here as long as you write original content. If it looks like you're just here to plug other sites and articles please don't do it.  

Well, thank you for the reminder. And I am sorry, I don't mean to be a troll.

The following people thank Tiff33 for this post:

Ahhh Girl
25 April 2017
penny lane
This most excellent canopy
The Indra
Forum Posts: 38
Member Since:
18 September 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't think there is enough evidence (and he sung, wrote and spoke about himself a lot)  from John or close family/friends over a  diagnosis of BiPolar Disorder, nor does it fit really, but given the losses in his childhood and his insecure, aggressive personality -   some symptoms of a  Borderline Personality Disorder are definitely there... but again that is a serious mental disorder to label a person with. Also in the music industry, you don't have to go far before bumping into many other artists with similar traits.

The following people thank penny lane for this post:

sir walter raleigh

Chasing a feather in the wind.

No permission to create posts
Forum Timezone: America/Chicago

Most Users Ever Online: 597

Currently Online: Expert Textpert, Evangeline, Martha, Dark Overlord, TheBeatlesFanatic231
104 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

Starr Shine?: 14494

Silly Girl: 10088

parlance: 7096

Necko: 6723

Ron Nasty: 6591

mr. Sun king coming together: 6412

Mr. Kite: 6135

trcanberra: 5974

AppleScruffJunior: 4763

mithveaen: 4614

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 87

Members: 2348

Moderators: 4

Admins: 2

Forum Stats:

Groups: 3

Forums: 42

Topics: 4232

Posts: 256784

Newest Members:

Davey Lane, Greig McArthur, grayson, Xavier-Jordan, SgtPaulCampbell

Moderators: Ahhh Girl: 14070, meanmistermustard: 20490, Zig: 9252, Joe: 4756

Administrators: Joe: 4756, Ellie: 4

Members Birthdays
Today: TheBeatles
Upcoming: None