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Overall was John politically good or bad?
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Lennonista
Los Angeles
69 Posts
(Offline)
61
12 February 2014 - 11.57pm

derek said
I'm gonna read on through this alot more but i would like to pose one question about "Imagine" that i had for years: How can we imagine there's no heaven when that's exactly what you're describing?" that is the one question i would ask John.

I'm not John, but I can tell you that he wasn't singing about heaven. He sang about a better world, about the here and now... not about some promise of a future reward.

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Ahhh Girl
sailing on a winedark open sea

12415 Posts
(Offline)
62
6 September 2014 - 2.54am

This may not be about good-or-bad, but it deals with John politically.

HOW JOHN LENNON AFFECTS TODAY'S IMMIGRATION FIGHT

Here's a little bit from the article.

[snip]The argument over President Barack Obama's legal authority to defer deportations begins 42 years ago with a bit of hashish, a dogged lawyer and, yes, John Lennon and Yoko Ono.

[snip]

Until the Lennon case, the Immigration and Naturalization Service had not acknowledged it used its own discretion in deciding whom to deport. But through the Freedom of Information Act, Wildes discovered 1,843 instances in which the INS had invoked such prosecutorial discretion as part of a secret program for "nonpriority" cases.

Once the program was revealed, the INS had no choice but to concede its existence and issued official guidance on how it would be applied. [snip]

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meanmistermustard

19087 Posts
(Offline)
63
19 November 2014 - 11.12am

From Examiner:

The precedent set by John Lennon's deportation fight in the mid '70s is the basis of a controversial executive order President Barack Obama is expected to issue to save many immigrants threatened with deportation, said Leon Wildes, the lawyer whose work prevented John Lennon from being deported in the 1970s, in an appearance on MSNBC's “The Last World With Lawrence O'Donnell” on Nov. 18...

“The legal precedent established in John Lennon's immigration case 42 years ago is the first legal building block that gave President Obama the authority to executive action to, in effect, grant new status to the Dreamers in June of 2012,” O’Donnell said. It was then that the president issued an order to prevent the deportation of immigrant students who didn't present a risk to national security or public safety that they could request a temporary stay and apply for work authorization.

More at the link.

I think John would have been thrilled.a-hard-days-night-john-1

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

Wigwam
1261 Posts
(Offline)
64
20 November 2014 - 3.17am

A ramification of John's political activities and peaceful philosophy was 'The Lennon Wall' in Prague …… some folk may not have heard of it.

I took the opportunity to visit the wall when I was in Prague some years back for a stag weekend….Glad I did because now it's too late.

Interestingly the owners of the wall are The sovereign order of of Malta who are taking legal action over the students that painted over the decades of artwork………..

Anyway, I just thought it would be of interest here….. 

'The Wall is Over'

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/int.....er/382901/

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Ron Nasty
5556 Posts
(Online)
65
20 November 2014 - 8.31am

@Wigwam Things have moved on since that report. The Knights of Malta have dropped criminal proceedings after talking with the art students who repainted the wall

608811.jpg?1416314649Image Enlarger

as a commemoration of the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It does not mark the end of the Lennon Wall, just the beginning of a new phase for it in its long life. Since it began in 1981, it has constantly evolved with newer works covering older work. The original portrait of John that appeared on it following his murder hasn't been seen in decades. The Communist authorities often painted over the wall in the 80s. Another group of art students painted the wall green in 2000. It always changes. And is already beginning to fill up again... and in a year or two it's probable that what is now appearing on the new blank canvas will be buried beneath layers on layers.

lennon-wall-01.jpgImage Enlarger

10808618_1549114018657304_264333167_n.jpgImage Enlarger

 As you can see, the wall is filling up again nicely. Should you ever make it back to Prague, the Lennonova Zed will still be there - the same focus for free speech and political dissent it has been for successive generations since 1981.

http://www.lennonwall.org

"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty

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mr. Sun king coming together
Nowhere Land
6429 Posts
(Offline)
66
4 December 2014 - 2.10am

To the overall question - he was useless. Let us be real - Lyndon Johnson had already not run for the Presidency in 1968 because of Vietnam. Nixon was going to try and pull a graceful exit regardless, and, oh yeah, the one politician John ever attached himself to - George McGovern (Sen. D-SD) - lost 49 states ion the 1972 election. The war extended 6 years beyond the singing of Give Peace A Chance outside the White House. He was unimportant.

As if it matters how a man falls down.'

'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.

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Little Piggy Dragonguy
Nowhere Land
2405 Posts
(Offline)
67
4 December 2014 - 5.00am

I don't think that John's political doings were taken very seriously. He was just a naive hippy to most people. 

All living things must abide by the laws of the shape they inhabit

Wigwam
1261 Posts
(Offline)
68
6 August 2015 - 6.54am

This article published today has a perspective on John's political naivety......And links it to a general demise after Plastic Ono band.

I must admit I have never listened to Sometime In New York City......But this is particularly scathing.

 

http://somethingelsereviews.co.....rk-city/ 

castironshore
112 Posts
(Offline)
69
6 August 2015 - 11.59am

unknown said
I don't think that John's political doings were taken very seriously. He was just a naive hippy to most people. 

 That's just not the case i'm afraid. I can't imagine any of todays so called pop stars being invited to have political dialogue with the likes of tariq ali or pierre trudeau.

 Johns political activism was taken very seriously (see the files kept on him by the us authorities)

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ewe2
Inside the beat
1599 Posts
(Offline)
70
6 August 2015 - 12.37pm

John stumbled around a lot in many ways, politics not least. It is interesting that he spoke of the Beatles wish to add their opinions, yet only he and George really made the effort to express their political opinions artistically. Without John's mistakes and explorations we wouldn't have the precedents spoken of already, and I had the sense he was going to be active again at the time of his death, which could have been very important then. I often wonder whether he would have been involved in Live Aid, or kept away like George (understandably). I doubt he would have had the engagement of a Bono, however.

I'm like Necko only I'm a bassist ukulele synthesizer penguin and also everyone. Or is everyone me? Now I'm a confused bassist ukulele synthesizer penguin everyone who is definitely not @Joe.

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meanmistermustard

19087 Posts
(Offline)
71
6 August 2015 - 5.18pm

John would have seen thru Bono.

"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris) 

"Don't make your love suffer insecurities; Trade the baggage of "self" to set another one free" ('Paper Skin' - Kendall Payne)

castironshore
112 Posts
(Offline)
72
7 August 2015 - 4.44am

I for one am glad john didn't have bono's "engagement".

Wigwam
1261 Posts
(Offline)
73
7 August 2015 - 6.53am

castironshore said
I for one am glad john didn't have bono's "engagement".

I wish Yoko had had Bono's 'engagement' instead of poor John's........Bono and Ono....Would have soon become Ono and Bono and we would have heard no more of either of them.

Ah well......Just a dream. A bit unfair really...... I've got nothing against Bono.

 

As it is I think John was playing catch-up for all those years on the periphery dreaming in Esher while Paul lorded it round London.

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Necko
Earth
5467 Posts
(Offline)
74
10 August 2015 - 2.38am

Wigwam said

castironshore said
I for one am glad john didn't have bono's "engagement".

I wish Yoko had had Bono's 'engagement' instead of poor John's........Bono and Ono....Would have soon become Ono and Bono and we would have heard no more of either of them.

Ah well......Just a dream. A bit unfair really...... I've got nothing against Bono.

Bonono.  Ha.  That sounds like banana.

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I'm Necko.  I'm like Ringo except I wear necklaces.

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trcanberra
Oz
5854 Posts
(Offline)
75
10 August 2015 - 4.19am

ewe2 said
John stumbled around a lot in many ways, politics not least. It is interesting that he spoke of the Beatles wish to add their opinions, yet only he and George really made the effort to express their political opinions artistically. Without John's mistakes and explorations we wouldn't have the precedents spoken of already, and I had the sense he was going to be active again at the time of his death, which could have been very important then. I often wonder whether he would have been involved in Live Aid, or kept away like George (understandably). I doubt he would have had the engagement of a Bono, however.

I think stumbled catches it for me - perhaps confused. It all reminds me of some lines from Springsteen:

"It's a sad funny ending to find yourself pretending
A rich man in a poor man's shirt
...
Now a life of leisure and a pirate's treasure
Don't make much for tragedy"

It's hard to keep up the rage and seem plausible when you can afford a garage full of limousines.

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sigh butterfly

==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (engaged for those not in the know!) <==

Wigwam
1261 Posts
(Offline)
76
10 August 2015 - 6.18am

Yes ...The fur coats were a mis-step too.....Who's bleeding idea was that??

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Zig
The Toppermost of the Poppermost

8720 Posts
(Offline)
77
11 August 2015 - 1.02pm

"Overall was John politically good or bad?"

That's really not for me to say. That would be a question that John would have had to ask of himself. If his politics or actions were good for him, that's all that counts. The rest is just pissing in the wind.

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sigh butterfly

To the fountain of perpetual mirth, Let it roll for all its worth.

Every Little Thing you buy from Amazon or iTunes will help the Beatles Bible if you use these links: Amazon | iTunes

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sigh butterfly
Sea of Green (near the Golden Gate)
1082 Posts
(Offline)
78
11 August 2015 - 2.59pm

Necko said

Wigwam said

castironshore said
I for one am glad john didn't have bono's "engagement".

I wish Yoko had had Bono's 'engagement' instead of poor John's........Bono and Ono....Would have soon become Ono and Bono and we would have heard no more of either of them.

Ah well......Just a dream. A bit unfair really...... I've got nothing against Bono.

Bonono.  Ha.  That sounds like banana.

@Necko, I know this comment doesn't belong in this thread, but your joke reminded me of something that I found upsetting. It seems like you have the most extensive song collection in the forum so wondering if you are familiar with the  BBC Disk 2 spoken word track called "Have a banana". It seems like the host is treating Ringo like an ape ("Here Ringo, have a banana if you can catch it") and everyone is laughing. It was Ringo's presence in the AHDN movie that brought me into the Beatles scene so maybe I am taking the "joke" to personally.

In the beginning I misunderstood
But now I've got it, the word is good

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Necko
Earth
5467 Posts
(Offline)
79
11 August 2015 - 4.54pm

sigh butterfly said

...It seems like you have the most extensive song collection in the forum so wondering if you are familiar with the  BBC Disk 2 spoken word track called "Have a banana". It seems like the host is treating Ringo like an ape ("Here Ringo, have a banana if you can catch it") and everyone is laughing...

I am aware of that track, but I never interpreted it in that way, honestly.

(By the way, I would argue that @vonbontee has the most extensive song collection here, not me.  I'm getting way off-topic here, so I'll shut up now.)

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sigh butterfly

I'm Necko.  I'm like Ringo except I wear necklaces.

I'm also ewe2 on weekends.

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sigh butterfly
Sea of Green (near the Golden Gate)
1082 Posts
(Offline)
80
11 August 2015 - 7.01pm

Thanks for the response @Necko . I'm actually upset at something that Paul said to Ringo (as reported in Rolling Stone) and for some reason the word "banana" in your post set me off (not Bonono though, that was pretty funny). I'll find the proper place to post as I'm sure there is a Ringo appreciation thread somewhere in the forum.

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Necko

In the beginning I misunderstood
But now I've got it, the word is good

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